Is this real m2 ap ammo? - Page 1

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[ARCHIVED THREAD] - Is this real m2 ap ammo?

Posted: 12/26/2011 4:12:11 PM EDT

Got this at a fun show years back. Black painted tip 30-06

63 gr bullet

Posted: 12/26/2011 4:13:46 PM EDT

[#1]

And if it is I want to hand load the bullet in 7.62x51 so anyone have load data for it.

Posted: 12/26/2011 4:18:32 PM EDT

[#2]

I think that's a Danish headstamp and don't see any reason why it wouldn't be AP with the black tip.

ETA: load data, AP bullet weight was 163gn, so you'd probably need to tune the load between a 155gn and 168gn bullet weight.

Posted: 12/26/2011 4:42:53 PM EDT

[#3]

I want to load these hot as they will be used to give my hk91 a full ap mag of hurt

Posted: 12/27/2011 2:31:05 AM EDT

[#4]

Black tip looks like AP, but the 63 grain part doesn't seem right. I thought M2 AP was pretty close to 165 grain.

Posted: 12/27/2011 6:10:24 AM EDT

[#5]

It probably is. Use 168gr STARTING LOADS and go from there.

Posted: 12/27/2011 6:35:49 AM EDT

[#6]

Quoted:
It probably is. Use 168gr STARTING LOADS and go from there.

This. If you look around you may even find data for 165gr projos.

I assume the op "63 grain" is a typo for 163 grain.

Posted: 12/27/2011 6:58:25 AM EDT

[#7]

Put a magnet to it. If it's AP, it will stick to the side, but not the point. That's because the hardened steel core is recessed in the bullet. If it sticks to the point, it's one of the fake painted steel jacketed bullets painted to be "AP".

Posted: 12/27/2011 9:07:44 AM EDT

[#8]

Quoted:
Put a magnet to it. If it's AP, it will stick to the side, but not the point. That's because the hardened steel core is recessed in the bullet. If it sticks to the point, it's one of the fake painted steel jacketed bullets painted to be "AP".

I'm about 110% confident its real AP.

The fmj ball bullets have much less material behind the cannelure.

That aside, your test depends on strenght of the magnet.

Posted: 12/27/2011 10:08:10 AM EDT

[#9]

What powder and how many grains or could I use the 06 powder?

Posted: 12/28/2011 9:08:16 PM EDT

[#10]

Quoted:
What powder and how many grains or could I use the 06 powder?

For 30-06 I'd load it the same as a 168 grain matchking. 46.0 grains of IMR4064, LC brass, Winchester or CCI primer.
(that's the old standby M1 Garand Match load)

Posted: 12/28/2011 11:45:16 PM EDT

[#11]

M993

Posted: 12/29/2011 4:16:15 AM EDT

[#12]

Have you ever reloaded before?

Posted: 12/29/2011 5:32:05 PM EDT

[#13]

Quoted:
Have you ever reloaded before?

this

go buy some manuals,

clue,

go buy some varget, 4895 and or 4064 while you are there

Posted: 12/30/2011 11:10:56 AM EDT

[#14]

Quoted:

Quoted:
Have you ever reloaded before?

this

go buy some manuals,

clue,

go buy some varget, 4895 and or 4064 while you are there

And read the manuals.

Posted: 12/30/2011 11:53:42 AM EDT

[#15]

Quoted:

Quoted:
Put a magnet to it. If it's AP, it will stick to the side, but not the point. That's because the hardened steel core is recessed in the bullet. If it sticks to the point, it's one of the fake painted steel jacketed bullets painted to be "AP".

I'm about 110% confident its real AP.

The fmj ball bullets have much less material behind the cannelure.

That aside, your test depends on strenght of the magnet.

You know that how? Using rare earth magnets, you still can't lift the round at the point.

Posted: 12/30/2011 12:10:59 PM EDT

[#16]

Load data for this in .308 is what is needed. And yes I hand load.

My bible does not have 163 gr data for .308

Posted: 12/30/2011 7:39:13 PM EDT

[#17]

Quoted:
Load data for this in .308 is what is needed. And yes I hand load.

My bible does not have 163 gr data for .308

How many do you have?

Posted: 12/30/2011 7:47:50 PM EDT

[#18]

Quoted:
Got this at a fun show years back. Black painted tip 30-06

63 gr bullet

http://i142.photobucket.com/albums/r89/blackmagic94/ba12a8bf.jpg
http://i142.photobucket.com/albums/r89/blackmagic94/5a1d5b78.jpg

Yes, it's real 30-06 AP. Market value is on the order of $1-2/live round. This was the standard combat issue round for an M1Garand. Unless you have a large quantity of them to properly work up your load, I don't think pulling and reloading them into some sort of hot round is a great idea. The bullet construction is different than something like a 168gr Sierra Match King - so going straight to a hot load based on a different bullet data isn't advised.

Posted: 12/30/2011 8:28:00 PM EDT

[#19]

something about federal prohibition against possessing .308 AP..........

Posted: 12/31/2011 6:48:27 AM EDT

[#20]

I have 24 and I'm gonna buy another 80 or so.

Posted: 12/31/2011 7:02:50 AM EDT

[#21]

Quoted:
something about federal prohibition against possessing .308 AP..........

From past reading, it's my understanding that it's ok to own, possess and shoot AP ammo. It's just not OK to manufacture it... I have no clue if loading a projectile into a case constitutes manufacture.

OP should do some reasearch into the matter beforehand, but I seem to remember seeing ads for -06 black tip rounds loaded in .308 cases on gunbroker and on here before without anyone getting all huffy.

Posted: 12/31/2011 8:44:44 AM EDT

[#22]

OK, you're going to use up the first 24 (at least, probably more) working up loads using 165/168/175 great load data.

Posted: 12/31/2011 9:06:19 PM EDT

[#23]

DA with a canadian broad arrow stamp is dominion arsenal not danish as another posted stated

Posted: 1/2/2012 6:30:33 AM EDT

[#24]

Quoted:
something about federal prohibition against possessing .308 AP..........

This, it is legal as a 20.06 provided its a original load, its not legal as a 308, even if it were grandfathered it would still be illegal, as their are pistols chambered in 308, as in the PTR and Vector 308 HK based pistols
ETA, IIRC that was in the Clinton Crime Bill, thats why we also cant have the good Chinese steel core ammo, thanks to Oly Arms building a pistol chambered for 7.62x39, even after being warned by the feds.

Posted: 1/2/2012 7:21:55 AM EDT

[#25]

So is that still ap?

Posted: 1/2/2012 7:58:53 AM EDT

[#26]

You may not be able to find an accurate load in .308 Winchester.

The .30/06 M1 had a 10" twist, inherited from the old Krag. Most
.308's usually have a 12" twist. Those bullets are longer than normal.

Stability of the bullet will affect both its accuracy and it's penetration.

Posted: 1/2/2012 8:23:19 AM EDT

[#27]

Quoted:
You may not be able to find an accurate load in .308 Winchester.

The .30/06 M1 had a 10" twist, inherited from the old Krag. Most
.308's usually have a 12" twist. Those bullets are longer than normal.

Stability of the bullet will affect both its accuracy and it's penetration.

The only way to know for sure is to cut one in half. Grendelbane brings up another point, actually the most important here, twist, bullet weight has nothing to do with twist, length does, even though your working a load for a given weight, there is a very good possibility it will never be accurate, or consistent, due to bullet length and barrel twist. Your pretty much on your own, best bet is either bag it, or start with light loads.
ETA, if it is in fact AP, your now breaking federal law which can guarantee a all inclusive stay at club fed.

Posted: 1/2/2012 8:26:43 AM EDT

[#28]

I want to say it mic'd out at 1.375" for the bullet.

Posted: 1/4/2012 10:56:51 AM EDT

[#29]

OAL is 2.810" right now and it fits the g3 mag housing. But it does feel like it compressed the varget 42 g of powder.

Posted: 1/4/2012 11:02:06 AM EDT

[#30]

Posted: 1/6/2012 7:36:21 AM EDT

[#31]

I developed a load for .308 AP, although it was with 150gr projos.

One thing I found out really quick was that the longer bearing surface with the AP bullets means that you reach max much quicker than with "ordinary" bullets of the same weight.

As far as legalities, that has been beaten to death a long time ago–– Can someone actually show me any federal law that proscribes the possession of armor piercing ammunition in this caliber? Laws against its manufacture don't have much relevance.

Posted: 1/7/2012 10:10:06 AM EDT

[#32]

Quoted:
I developed a load for .308 AP, although it was with 150gr projos.

One thing I found out really quick was that the longer bearing surface with the AP bullets means that you reach max much quicker than with "ordinary" bullets of the same weight.

As far as legalities, that has been beaten to death a long time ago–– Can someone actually show me any federal law that proscribes the possession of armor piercing ammunition in this caliber? Laws against its manufacture don't have much relevance.

Heres a older version, but Clintons Crime Bill changed this some, it changed the wording that any armor peircing bullet, that is also chamber for a commercial hand gun is illegal, which put the brakes on 556, 7.62x39, and 7.62 NATO armor peircing rounds, it did grandfather the old 30.06 AP rounds from WW2 and Korea, and 50 cal though, but it also changed the wording to manufacture of any round for the earlier mentioned calibers. This is why, thanks to Olympic Arms getting the cheap 7.62x39 ammo banned from importation, they were manufacturing a AR pistol in 7.62x39. Heres a link for the older law, I cant find it for the newer reworded one though. One also has to check into State Laws, as a number of them also have restrictions on it. Older Federal Law

Posted: 1/7/2012 11:40:06 AM EDT

[#33]

Quoted:
I developed a load for .308 AP, although it was with 150gr projos.

One thing I found out really quick was that the longer bearing surface with the AP bullets means that you reach max much quicker than with "ordinary" bullets of the same weight.

As far as legalities, that has been beaten to death a long time ago–– Can someone actually show me any federal law that proscribes the possession of armor piercing ammunition in this caliber? Laws against its manufacture don't have much relevance.

Here is the law regarding "armor piercing handgun ammunition". Read it for your self.
18 USC 921(a)(17) says:


(A) The term "ammunition" means ammunition or cartridge

cases, primers, bullets, or propellent powder designed for use in

any firearm.

(B) The term "armor piercing ammunition" means -

(i) a projectile or projectile core which may be used in a

handgun and which is constructed entirely (excluding the presence

of traces of other substances) from one or a combination of

tungsten alloys, steel, iron, brass, bronze, beryllium copper, or

depleted uranium; or

(ii) a full jacketed projectile larger than .22 caliber

designed and intended for use in a handgun and whose jacket has a

weight of more than 25 percent of the total weight of the

projectile.

(C) The term "armor piercing ammunition" does not include shotgun

shot required by Federal or State environmental or game regulations

for hunting purposes, a frangible projectile designed for target

shooting, a projectile which the Attorney General finds is

primarily intended to be used for sporting purposes, or any other

projectile or projectile core which the Attorney General finds is

intended to be used for industrial purposes, including a charge

used in an oil and gas well perforating device.

Posted: 1/7/2012 5:33:56 PM EDT

[#34]

It sure as hell isn't "manufacturing" as defined in your link. Did you even read it?

Posted: 1/7/2012 5:55:52 PM EDT

[#35]

Why is this even being discussed. All I care about is loading input or knowledge.

Posted: 1/8/2012 7:13:32 AM EDT

[#36]

Quoted:
Why is this even being discussed. All I care about is loading input or knowledge.

Becuase once you load it, its illegal to have, if you care about those things.

Posted: 1/8/2012 8:34:58 AM EDT

[#37]

Quoted:
It sure as hell isn't "manufacturing" as defined in your link. Did you even read it?

Your right. Don't let me stop you.

Posted: 1/8/2012 8:42:11 AM EDT

[#38]

As others mention, there may be legal complications to this. Does anyone sell .308 AP? That might be your answer.,.

Posted: 1/8/2012 9:29:45 AM EDT

[#39]

Quoted:
As others mention, there may be legal complications to this. Does anyone sell .308 AP? That might be your answer.,.

Only to the military, both 308 and 556, try and buy it legally though as a private citizen. 30.06 and 50 cal were grandfatherd but nothing after a cetain date of manufacture for 50, and all 06 was. Even if its legal federally (which it isnt), what about state laws?

Posted: 1/8/2012 5:36:05 PM EDT

[#40]

I'm not taking your advice as real evidence based on your lack of knowledge that you present as factual in several other recent threads as reason to not care.

Posted: 1/8/2012 6:22:28 PM EDT

[#41]

Quoted:
I'm not taking your advice as real evidence based on your lack of knowledge that you present as factual in several other recent threads as reason to not care.

What becuase reading is something you lack??? Or because I proved you wrong on the Sig 551A1? or was it because I actually did have a HK45T, yea I know kinda rare, shoulda kept it, but it was not a USP and it wasnt a Compact T, but their out there, I just buy and sell looking for the right one, but go ahead dont read the links, dont take anyone elses advice, pretty much though, you proved your the one with a total lack of knowledge, but hey I admitted I didnt remember it that well didnt pay attention to it, I just didnt like it, but I do know a USP from the HK45, oh by the way the other threads were fact based, and you even proved it again for me on the Sig.

Posted: 1/8/2012 8:05:46 PM EDT

[#42]

Quoted:

Quoted:
As others mention, there may be legal complications to this. Does anyone sell .308 AP? That might be your answer.,.

Only to the military, both 308 and 556, try and buy it legally though as a private citizen. 30.06 and 50 cal were grandfatherd but nothing after a cetain date of manufacture for 50, and all 06 was. Even if its legal federally (which it isnt), what about state laws?

.50 caliber has no regulation against it for AP, as talon and summit both load it. The AP law only applies to rounds that can be chambered in a production handgun. Albeit a few small custom pieces there are NO Production .50 BMG handguns.

Also the AP law quoted is missing the rest of the info on it.

5) Hardness of the bullet is irrelevant.

6) Ability to actually penetrate any kind of soft body armor is irrelevant.

ATF has listed the following rounds as AP ammo:

All KTW, ARCANE, and THV ammo.
Czech made 9mm Para. with steel core.
German made 9mm Para. with steel core.
MSC .25 ACP with brass bullet.
BLACK STEEL armor and metal piercing ammunition.
7.62mm NATO AP and SLAP.
PMC ULTRAMAG with brass bullet (but not copper).
OMNISHOCK .38 Special with steel core.
7.62x39 ammo with steel core bullets.

ATF has specifically exempted the following rounds:

5.56 SS109 and M855 NATO rounds, with a steel penetrator tip.
.30-06 M2 AP ammo.

WHAT FEDERAL RESTRICTIONS ARE PLACED ON AP AMMO?

If you are NOT a (FFL) licensee under the Gun Control Act (an individual):
It is: ok to OWN AP ammo
ok to SELL AP ammo
ok to BUY AP ammo
ok to SHOOT AP ammo
NOT ok to MAKE AP ammo (18 USC sec. 922(a)(7))
NOT ok to IMPORT AP ammo (18 USC sec. 922(a)(7))
The only persons who can make AP ammo are holders of a type 10
FFL, also needed to make destructive devices, and ammunition for
destructive devices. The only persons who can import AP ammo
are holders of a type 11 FFL, who can also import DD's and ammo
for DD's. The FFL's cost $1000 a year.

Ap ammo ruling

Posted: 1/8/2012 8:40:18 PM EDT

[#43]

Quoted:

Quoted:
As others mention, there may be legal complications to this. Does anyone sell .308 AP? That might be your answer.,.

Only to the military, both 308 and 556, try and buy it legally though as a private citizen. 30.06 and 50 cal were grandfatherd but nothing after a cetain date of manufacture for 50, and all 06 was. Even if its legal federally (which it isnt), what about state laws?

.50 caliber has no regulation against it for AP, as talon and summit both load it. The AP law only applies to rounds that can be chambered in a production handgun. Albeit a few small custom pieces there are NO Production .50 BMG handguns.

Also the AP law quoted is missing the rest of the info on it.

5) Hardness of the bullet is irrelevant.

6) Ability to actually penetrate any kind of soft body armor is irrelevant.

ATF has listed the following rounds as AP ammo:

All KTW, ARCANE, and THV ammo.
Czech made 9mm Para. with steel core.
German made 9mm Para. with steel core.
MSC .25 ACP with brass bullet.
BLACK STEEL armor and metal piercing ammunition.
7.62mm NATO AP and SLAP.
PMC ULTRAMAG with brass bullet (but not copper).
OMNISHOCK .38 Special with steel core.
7.62x39 ammo with steel core bullets.

ATF has specifically exempted the following rounds:

5.56 SS109 and M855 NATO rounds, with a steel penetrator tip.
.30-06 M2 AP ammo.

WHAT FEDERAL RESTRICTIONS ARE PLACED ON AP AMMO?

If you are NOT a (FFL) licensee under the Gun Control Act (an individual):
It is: ok to OWN AP ammo
ok to SELL AP ammo
ok to BUY AP ammo
ok to SHOOT AP ammo
NOT ok to MAKE AP ammo (18 USC sec. 922(a)(7))
NOT ok to IMPORT AP ammo (18 USC sec. 922(a)(7))
The only persons who can make AP ammo are holders of a type 10
FFL, also needed to make destructive devices, and ammunition for
destructive devices. The only persons who can import AP ammo
are holders of a type 11 FFL, who can also import DD's and ammo
for DD's. The FFL's cost $1000 a year.

Ap ammo ruling

I never posted that, IIRC, the crime bill from clintons watch, reworded it though, as that no ap ammo can be manufactured for any round that is available in a regular production hand gun, it was under the cop killer bullet guise. I know the BATF warned Olympic Arms is they manufactured their 7.62x39 AR is would cause the ban of Chinese steel core ammo allowed into the US. The part you have is from what 86? Even if it does fall into a grey area, no one is addressing state laws.

Posted: 1/8/2012 8:51:48 PM EDT

[#44]

Quoted:

Quoted:
As others mention, there may be legal complications to this. Does anyone sell .308 AP? That might be your answer.,.

Only to the military, both 308 and 556, try and buy it legally though as a private citizen. 30.06 and 50 cal were grandfatherd but nothing after a cetain date of manufacture for 50, and all 06 was. Even if its legal federally (which it isnt), what about state laws?

.50 caliber has no regulation against it for AP, as talon and summit both load it. The AP law only applies to rounds that can be chambered in a production handgun. Albeit a few small custom pieces there are NO Production .50 BMG handguns.

Also the AP law quoted is missing the rest of the info on it.

5) Hardness of the bullet is irrelevant.

6) Ability to actually penetrate any kind of soft body armor is irrelevant.

ATF has listed the following rounds as AP ammo:

All KTW, ARCANE, and THV ammo.
Czech made 9mm Para. with steel core.
German made 9mm Para. with steel core.
MSC .25 ACP with brass bullet.
BLACK STEEL armor and metal piercing ammunition.
7.62mm NATO AP and SLAP.
PMC ULTRAMAG with brass bullet (but not copper).
OMNISHOCK .38 Special with steel core.
7.62x39 ammo with steel core bullets.

ATF has specifically exempted the following rounds:

5.56 SS109 and M855 NATO rounds, with a steel penetrator tip.
.30-06 M2 AP ammo.

WHAT FEDERAL RESTRICTIONS ARE PLACED ON AP AMMO?

If you are NOT a (FFL) licensee under the Gun Control Act (an individual):
It is: ok to OWN AP ammo
ok to SELL AP ammo
ok to BUY AP ammo
ok to SHOOT AP ammo
NOT ok to MAKE AP ammo (18 USC sec. 922(a)(7))
NOT ok to IMPORT AP ammo (18 USC sec. 922(a)(7))
The only persons who can make AP ammo are holders of a type 10
FFL, also needed to make destructive devices, and ammunition for
destructive devices. The only persons who can import AP ammo
are holders of a type 11 FFL, who can also import DD's and ammo
for DD's. The FFL's cost $1000 a year.

Ap ammo ruling

I never posted that, IIRC, the crime bill from clintons watch, reworded it though, as that no ap ammo can be manufactured for any round that is available in a regular production hand gun, it was under the cop killer bullet guise. I know the BATF warned Olympic Arms is they manufactured their 7.62x39 AR is would cause the ban of Chinese steel core ammo allowed into the US. The part you have is from what 86? Even if it does fall into a grey area, no one is addressing state laws.

We're talking about federal laws here. You only posted the definition part of what constitutes AP ammo. What i posted includes the revised statue for the Clinton crime bill.

Posted: 1/9/2012 5:22:03 AM EDT

[#45]

Quoted:

Quoted:
As others mention, there may be legal complications to this. Does anyone sell .308 AP? That might be your answer.,.

Only to the military, both 308 and 556, try and buy it legally though as a private citizen. 30.06 and 50 cal were grandfatherd but nothing after a cetain date of manufacture for 50, and all 06 was. Even if its legal federally (which it isnt), what about state laws?

.50 caliber has no regulation against it for AP, as talon and summit both load it. The AP law only applies to rounds that can be chambered in a production handgun. Albeit a few small custom pieces there are NO Production .50 BMG handguns.

Also the AP law quoted is missing the rest of the info on it.

5) Hardness of the bullet is irrelevant.

6) Ability to actually penetrate any kind of soft body armor is irrelevant.

ATF has listed the following rounds as AP ammo:

All KTW, ARCANE, and THV ammo.
Czech made 9mm Para. with steel core.
German made 9mm Para. with steel core.
MSC .25 ACP with brass bullet.
BLACK STEEL armor and metal piercing ammunition.
7.62mm NATO AP and SLAP.
PMC ULTRAMAG with brass bullet (but not copper).
OMNISHOCK .38 Special with steel core.
7.62x39 ammo with steel core bullets.

ATF has specifically exempted the following rounds:

5.56 SS109 and M855 NATO rounds, with a steel penetrator tip.
.30-06 M2 AP ammo.

WHAT FEDERAL RESTRICTIONS ARE PLACED ON AP AMMO?

If you are NOT a (FFL) licensee under the Gun Control Act (an individual):
It is: ok to OWN AP ammo
ok to SELL AP ammo
ok to BUY AP ammo
ok to SHOOT AP ammo
NOT ok to MAKE AP ammo (18 USC sec. 922(a)(7))
NOT ok to IMPORT AP ammo (18 USC sec. 922(a)(7))
The only persons who can make AP ammo are holders of a type 10
FFL, also needed to make destructive devices, and ammunition for
destructive devices. The only persons who can import AP ammo
are holders of a type 11 FFL, who can also import DD's and ammo
for DD's. The FFL's cost $1000 a year.

Ap ammo ruling

I never posted that, IIRC, the crime bill from clintons watch, reworded it though, as that no ap ammo can be manufactured for any round that is available in a regular production hand gun, it was under the cop killer bullet guise. I know the BATF warned Olympic Arms is they manufactured their 7.62x39 AR is would cause the ban of Chinese steel core ammo allowed into the US. The part you have is from what 86? Even if it does fall into a grey area, no one is addressing state laws.

We're talking about federal laws here. You only posted the definition part of what constitutes AP ammo. What i posted includes the revised statue for the Clinton crime bill.

Well than its illegal to make, ie reload correct?

Posted: 1/9/2012 9:58:12 AM EDT

[#46]

Quoted:

Quoted:
As others mention, there may be legal complications to this. Does anyone sell .308 AP? That might be your answer.,.

Only to the military, both 308 and 556, try and buy it legally though as a private citizen. 30.06 and 50 cal were grandfatherd but nothing after a cetain date of manufacture for 50, and all 06 was. Even if its legal federally (which it isnt), what about state laws?

.50 caliber has no regulation against it for AP, as talon and summit both load it. The AP law only applies to rounds that can be chambered in a production handgun. Albeit a few small custom pieces there are NO Production .50 BMG handguns.

Also the AP law quoted is missing the rest of the info on it.

5) Hardness of the bullet is irrelevant.

6) Ability to actually penetrate any kind of soft body armor is irrelevant.

ATF has listed the following rounds as AP ammo:

All KTW, ARCANE, and THV ammo.
Czech made 9mm Para. with steel core.
German made 9mm Para. with steel core.
MSC .25 ACP with brass bullet.
BLACK STEEL armor and metal piercing ammunition.
7.62mm NATO AP and SLAP.
PMC ULTRAMAG with brass bullet (but not copper).
OMNISHOCK .38 Special with steel core.
7.62x39 ammo with steel core bullets.

ATF has specifically exempted the following rounds:

5.56 SS109 and M855 NATO rounds, with a steel penetrator tip.
.30-06 M2 AP ammo.

WHAT FEDERAL RESTRICTIONS ARE PLACED ON AP AMMO?

If you are NOT a (FFL) licensee under the Gun Control Act (an individual):
It is: ok to OWN AP ammo
ok to SELL AP ammo
ok to BUY AP ammo
ok to SHOOT AP ammo
NOT ok to MAKE AP ammo (18 USC sec. 922(a)(7))
NOT ok to IMPORT AP ammo (18 USC sec. 922(a)(7))
The only persons who can make AP ammo are holders of a type 10
FFL, also needed to make destructive devices, and ammunition for
destructive devices. The only persons who can import AP ammo
are holders of a type 11 FFL, who can also import DD's and ammo
for DD's. The FFL's cost $1000 a year.

Ap ammo ruling

I never posted that, IIRC, the crime bill from clintons watch, reworded it though, as that no ap ammo can be manufactured for any round that is available in a regular production hand gun, it was under the cop killer bullet guise. I know the BATF warned Olympic Arms is they manufactured their 7.62x39 AR is would cause the ban of Chinese steel core ammo allowed into the US. The part you have is from what 86? Even if it does fall into a grey area, no one is addressing state laws.

We're talking about federal laws here. You only posted the definition part of what constitutes AP ammo. What i posted includes the revised statue for the Clinton crime bill.

Well than its illegal to make, ie reload correct?

It is illegal to make AP ammo that can be used in a pistol, yes. And as you can see 7.62 nato AP and SLAP is listed, however i wonder if you could skirt the line by loading .308 cartridges, but i wouldnt want to be the test case.

Posted: 1/9/2012 10:35:12 AM EDT

[#47]

Quoted:

Quoted:
As others mention, there may be legal complications to this. Does anyone sell .308 AP? That might be your answer.,.

Only to the military, both 308 and 556, try and buy it legally though as a private citizen. 30.06 and 50 cal were grandfatherd but nothing after a cetain date of manufacture for 50, and all 06 was. Even if its legal federally (which it isnt), what about state laws?

.50 caliber has no regulation against it for AP, as talon and summit both load it. The AP law only applies to rounds that can be chambered in a production handgun. Albeit a few small custom pieces there are NO Production .50 BMG handguns.

Also the AP law quoted is missing the rest of the info on it.

5) Hardness of the bullet is irrelevant.

6) Ability to actually penetrate any kind of soft body armor is irrelevant.

ATF has listed the following rounds as AP ammo:

All KTW, ARCANE, and THV ammo.
Czech made 9mm Para. with steel core.
German made 9mm Para. with steel core.
MSC .25 ACP with brass bullet.
BLACK STEEL armor and metal piercing ammunition.
7.62mm NATO AP and SLAP.
PMC ULTRAMAG with brass bullet (but not copper).
OMNISHOCK .38 Special with steel core.
7.62x39 ammo with steel core bullets.

ATF has specifically exempted the following rounds:

5.56 SS109 and M855 NATO rounds, with a steel penetrator tip.
.30-06 M2 AP ammo.

WHAT FEDERAL RESTRICTIONS ARE PLACED ON AP AMMO?

If you are NOT a (FFL) licensee under the Gun Control Act (an individual):
It is: ok to OWN AP ammo
ok to SELL AP ammo
ok to BUY AP ammo
ok to SHOOT AP ammo
NOT ok to MAKE AP ammo (18 USC sec. 922(a)(7))
NOT ok to IMPORT AP ammo (18 USC sec. 922(a)(7))
The only persons who can make AP ammo are holders of a type 10
FFL, also needed to make destructive devices, and ammunition for
destructive devices. The only persons who can import AP ammo
are holders of a type 11 FFL, who can also import DD's and ammo
for DD's. The FFL's cost $1000 a year.

Ap ammo ruling

I never posted that, IIRC, the crime bill from clintons watch, reworded it though, as that no ap ammo can be manufactured for any round that is available in a regular production hand gun, it was under the cop killer bullet guise. I know the BATF warned Olympic Arms is they manufactured their 7.62x39 AR is would cause the ban of Chinese steel core ammo allowed into the US. The part you have is from what 86? Even if it does fall into a grey area, no one is addressing state laws.

We're talking about federal laws here. You only posted the definition part of what constitutes AP ammo. What i posted includes the revised statue for the Clinton crime bill.

Well than its illegal to make, ie reload correct?

It is illegal to make AP ammo that can be used in a pistol, yes. And as you can see 7.62 nato AP and SLAP is listed, however i wonder if you could skirt the line by loading .308 cartridges, but i wouldnt want to be the test case.

Ok, got it, I didnt see the Klinton Krime Bill update link, I do know that thanks to Oly Arms, it wasnt a real big issue, then when they did their little AK/AR, the feds started cracking down, hell they were warned before hand to drop it or this would happen, bottom line first for them, fuck the rest of us. I also agree, I dont have any desire to be a test case, even if you won, the costs would be staggering.

[ARCHIVED THREAD] - Is this real m2 ap ammo?

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