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Posted: 2/20/2012 8:37:22 AM EDT
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Sooner or later, it will happen. You will need to pull bullets and life gets boring fast. The three-segment shell holders get old, fast. Ditch the slow shell holder and use a standard reloading press shell holder, it will fit most types. Next, what you hit makes a world of difference. It needs to hit something massive and hard. I have a 20 pound section of railroad rail which works well, a single hit will pull .45 ACP. Powder will spill from the hole in the cap. A simple pipe plug/cork/stopper which fits the hole makes this much cleaner. Have a few bowls for components. Again, powder can "splash" when the bullet hits. Either a bullet catching screen or put 2-3 layers of bullets in that bowl so the powder trickles beneath. A clean foam ear plug in the bullet puller will protect soft point bullets. Save bullet pulling for stress relief. Yes, I messed up with over 400 rounds of .45 ACP. Powder measure was running low and some have no powder. This was a powder puff load of AA5 so it should have flowed. No damage so far. |
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With all due respect I have to caution readers against using standard press shellholders rather than the collets that come with it.
The collets are a three piece expanding design that are made that way to alleviate pressure in the event that a round detonated. Chances are that it won't happen, but it can. All you need is a 1/4 to 1/2 twist of the cap and the brass can be pulled out of the collet, and the powder and the projectile can fall through. I've been using the Frankford Arsenal one since 2002 and it is great. I comes is real handy when you have loaded a recipe up for one rifle and then you trade it for one of the same caliber and realize that the 500 rounds you loaded are on the warm side or aren't accurate and you need to start over. For the reasons not to use a shellholder, read this link, and look at the photos. http://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=frankford%20arsenal%20kinetic%20bullet%20puller%20warning%20against%20using%20shell%20holders&source=web&cd=2&ved=0CDcQFjAB&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.shootersforum.com%2Fhandloading-equipment%2F50347-inertial-bullet-puller-warning.html&ei=xYdCT6PiOdK_gAeK3s2yCw&usg=AFQjCNHi4r075mNZVKeHOYLzgmhr7XxGjA&cad=rja |
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As for what actually happens. This is a good diagram. Most of us know not to seat a primer high, but, as you are whacking away with this thing it is possible that your primer may back out some, since if you loaded it in it won't be crimped to prevent this sort of violent action from loosening it in the pocket.
The same forces that are acting on the bullet / neck tension, are also acting on the primer/pocket tension. There are reasons why the primers don't loosed as easily as the bullet, and it is mostly due to the weight of the primer being so small. Anyway, here is a great pic to explain it, 
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Interesting hypothesis but not supported in reality. I looked at the alignment of the primer in relation to the hole in the shell holder. There is no way for the primer to contact the shell holder with the cap on. Furthermore, the cap has to be removed to get the bullet out when breaking down pistol rounds. With the three segment shell holder, the best I can do is 4 per minute. I get 6 per minute with the press-type shell holder. |
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Again, with all due respect Keith, I have to disagree. There are several accounts documenting the danger. The fact that it can happen is enough not to advise it on an open forum where people may or may not eliminate all factors that could contribute to the conditions that can cause detonation. I think it is bad practice to advocate something that may negatively impact the forum as well.
This, from the moderator of Shooters Forum from the same article I linked, explains it better. While we don’t normally make it a practice to add to closed threads, this is a legitimate safety issue, and thus merits an exception. Every moderator on this board who once used shell holders in inertial bullet pullers has stopped doing so after Mt. Jerry’s post, all figuring safety first until it was better understood. Awhile after this thread was written, I found my Quinetics inertial bullet pullet (It was hiding in an ammo can full of wrenches). Here’s what I learned: What you see attached as Figure 1, below, is how a rimless .473” diameter case (.308, .30-06, .45 ACP) lies in the body of the puller. Contrary to some statements made in defense of the shell holder practice, the case is not forced into the center. It would take a wider case to do that. As a result, if you place such a case in a shell holder and orient the loading slot in the holder upright so gravity pulls the case into the end of the slot, then tighten the cap against the holder, you will see the bottom of the shell holder slot nicely cradles it in the center (Figure 2). However, if you rotate the slot so that either gravity or the centrifugal effect of swinging the puller in an arc can move the shell toward the mouth of the slot, it is no-longer centered (Figure 3). Even though it is hard to see in the photo, the primer slightly overlaps the edge of the hole through the shell holder. This is what I attempted to illustrate would happen with the earlier drawing that was disputed as “seriously flawed”. Finally, have a look at Figure 4. This is a worst case event. The cap has loosened, as can happen in a single blow, and the shell holder slot has zigged while the case has zagged. By moving in opposite directions, they create a very substantial primer overlap with the edge of the hole through the shell holder. None of the above is enough to cause the accident Mt. Jerry originally described. Another ingredient is required. You have to be trying to disassemble a round with a high primer. That primer cannot be higher than fits in the shell holder slot, but still allows several thousandths, and if it is high at all, trouble is awaiting the incautious. High primers are responsible for the vast majority of slamfires that occur in self-loaders. Having no firing pin, the firing mechanism in the kinetic puller is a little different from that in a slamfiring rifle. When you swing the puller and strike a hard surface, the puller body bounces off that surface. The mechanics of the bounce are no different than the mechanics of bouncing a rubber ball, except the hammer’s elastic deformation is less extreme and it snaps back to shape much more sharply. This pushes it off against the impact surface and launches it upward. The momentary deformation at impact sees the puller body squash down a little and this allows the cartridge and shell holder to keep moving downward by that same small amount. When it snaps back, it propels the shell holder and cartridge upward sharply. If the cap is secure, it and the shell holder move together. If it is loose, the shell holder will pop up to a stop against the cap. The cartridge, however, has some free play within the slot in the shell holder, so it keeps going until it hits the other side of the slot, regardless of whether the cap is secure or loose. If the primer lines up with the hole in the shell holder, the above-mentioned collisions are no problem even when the primer is high. But if the primer does not align with the case, and it is also high, then it will strike the edge of the hole in the shell holder. This apparently can cause ignition. I believe that in Mt. Jerry’s case, from the overlapping impression in the primer in the fired case he recovered, that he also had the cap come loose. That may or may not be necessary to get enough primer/shell holder hole overlap to cause ignition in a case with a .473” head diameter, but I don’t care to test the point. The deformation and shock traversing the puller after impact can loosen the cap, and if you don’t stop to check the cap between blows, it could bring about the much more severe misalignment that apparently can cause a .473” casehead’s high primer to go off. As you go to pulling narrower diameter cartridges than those with a .473” casehead, obviously the hazard increases because even with the cap tight, there is more room for the cartridge to slide around and overlap the hole through the shell holder. It just doesn’t seem worth the risk. Moreover, Quinetics has now come out with a case holding collet chuck design with crimped-in O-rings that will snap over a case without all the manipulation the original style holders require. So you can have your quick change and be safe, too. Follow the link below for details. 
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Interesting, I've never used anything but the collet when pulling the bullets, but looking at the photos it looks to me like the collet lets the burning powder vent much more effectively, which should substantially lower the risk involved if the primer should go off. Smokeless powders are progressive and burn faster with increased pressure, the shell holder wouldn't let it vent as well as the collet, thus increasing the pressure, allowing it to behave more like a cartridge, which would make it more dangerous in the event of a primer going off. |
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Quoted:
I get 6 per minute with the press-type shell holder. There are many people out there missing digits and other body parts who thought, "it can never happen to me". Eventually, you're going to detonate a round, and I sincerely hope that it both scares the living daylights out of you, and doesn't cause any injuries. |
| The easiest thing that I've found to use, that works really well, is the plastic weights that you fill with concrete. Just about everyone has an old set laying around. I just put the bar with the weights already on them next to the bench, ( well did, the weights and the reloading stuff was all in an extra bedroom at the other house, now I have to figure something out besides just banging it on the linoleum flooring), and give it a good whack. I don't let the hammer bounce back up, but rather try and make it sort of a dead blow. Normally it works in just a few whacks. |
| Another tip is to make sure that when your puller impacts that it is straight at the moment of impact. The handle should be perfectly as possible horizontal with the object you are hitting. Bullets pull easier and faster PLUS it helps prevent breaking your plastic kinetic impact puller. |
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Quoted:
Quoted:
and my time is more valuable than all that. Whenever I hear that I think: "How much do you get paid to sit on your butt and watch TV? 99% of the time that's what their doing that is "more valuable". If that's what I was doing you'd be right. 
But tonight I'll have the TV on while I'm reloading .50's which is much more cost effective than breaking down 9mms. That's after I saw up some cedar for walking sticks, weld a cast iron pot, and set a gopher trap. |
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How I use mine, knock on wood, literally http://www.ar15.com/content/page.html?id=431 |
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I stopped using a shell holder, but only because it wrecks the plastic puller. They are a heck of a lot faster and less aggravation than the collets.
I was surprised at the damage accumulating where the shell holder bears against the puller body, I've busted a bunch of these tools, and didn't want to break another one, especially in the middle of breaking down some reloaded ammo I bought for the cases. |
| I only use a kinetic puller if I am pulling a few rounds. Otherwise I use a collet die puller. It is much faster and doesn't spill any powder. You also don't have to worry about damaging the tips of the bullet. The cost of the die and collet are not much more than a kinetic hammer. |
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