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Minor update - found a cheap case that fits the gun that I like and am switching to https://www.temu.com/goods.html?_bg_fs=1&goods_id=601099533694005&_x_sessn_id=7q694qltg9&refer_page_name=bgt_order_detail&refer_page_id=10045_1714139528615_eruo9hqgvr&refer_page_sn=10045 $20. (Get the 70 CM one)  It looks too small, but actually does fit. Only complaint is I wish it had more cargo capacity/support pockets. |
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Originally Posted By mini14jac: @lazyengineer, did you ever post a link to the bipod? If not, please do. Picked up my RDB yesterday. Try code: DSYP26LP  
You'll also want 
(If not running factory plastic handguard) |
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Originally Posted By Skyler2000: Lazy, now that you've resolved the issues with your RDB, especially with the bolt catch locking up, how would you rate the RDB in comparison to your AUG? If you had to pick one to figuratively "go to war," which would you pick? Good question, and I'll need to revisit that when I have more time. I have not yet done a proper hard used multi-mag mag dump run yet. Which I think I need to do. I will say this, I have done a deep clean and mothball of my AUG - I run this gun now. But I'm not going to sell the AUG right now either |
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4/27/2024 update: Fired 30 rounds A friend wanted some help with her pistol training (which went really well) and this is where she discovered that she needs to shoot left-handed, if she's left eye-dominant; and things started getting better. So she ran a rifle left-handed for the first time ever, and actually liked the RDB nicely, which caters well to that. Also, updated the photos of my el-cheap0 $20 TEMU gun bag. Which just looks too small to work, but it does, and comfortably. Despite the photo, the zipper doesn't actually stretch any to fit; it's just the perfect length.   Total round count: 1167 rounds |
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Originally Posted By lazyengineer: Good question, and I'll need to revisit that when I have more time. I have not yet done a proper hard used multi-mag mag dump run yet. Which I think I need to do. I will say this, I have done a deep clean and mothball of my AUG - I run this gun now. But I'm not going to sell the AUG right now either Originally Posted By lazyengineer: Originally Posted By Skyler2000: Lazy, now that you've resolved the issues with your RDB, especially with the bolt catch locking up, how would you rate the RDB in comparison to your AUG? If you had to pick one to figuratively "go to war," which would you pick? Good question, and I'll need to revisit that when I have more time. I have not yet done a proper hard used multi-mag mag dump run yet. Which I think I need to do. I will say this, I have done a deep clean and mothball of my AUG - I run this gun now. But I'm not going to sell the AUG right now either To follow-up on this. Basically, I guess there are two questions -As a civilian shooter in civilian life, which would I take, even for Serious Business? -If I were going to Ukraine for a 1 year field deployment that will involve gunfire exchange, which will I take? To the first question, I say the RDB. To the second question... that one is tougher. TBH, I'd probably take an AR15 variant, for the common parts. One item of note, is that the aluminum handguards that are way cooler and more useful, actually kind of suck in extended use and military level conditions. They will heat up to unusable temperatures in about 3 high-rate mag dumps (at near full-auto rates). Worse, they will suck the heat right out of your hand way more than you can believe in a cool night (where "combat" duty generally means sitting on your ass most of the time, in the dark, on a cold night). The AUG beats the RDB with my handguard there. So if I did take the RDB, I'd probably reinstall the plastic handguard. Which will also assure no one steals my rifle, but Holy Crap is that thing ugly. Utilitarian, but Ugly. What I really want is for a first-line outfit to make an RDB derivative, where the eliminate the screws and Kel-Tec KetLec'ness, as then I think the RDB would be an outstanding gun. I think the RDB already is outstanding, but too many screws. I guess I could take an RDB with the plastic handguard, and I'd bring some spare parts - a complete bolt and maybe even carrier. But I would do the same for the AUG. And maybe a replacement mag latch. The single greatest weakness of the RDB for "Serious military usage", is that mag-catch is just to easy to inadverntatly engage, IMHO. Shaving a 1/4 second on the reload isn't worth the price of enhanced risk of having 1-shot in the gun, and 1 shot only, with the other 29 on the ground in the mag. In fact, if there's a mod to enhance the security of the mag retention on the RDB, I'm interested. But in the end, I think maybe I would take the RDB over the AUG, because over the last year, about 2 or 3 independant vids of dudes running bullpups hard were done, and in every one of them, they actually picked the RDB over the AUG etc. And owning both, I now see why. Right now, I have over 1000 rounds no the RDB, and about 8000+ rounds on the AUG. I've broken actually quite a few parts on the AUG. I haven't broken a single part on the RDB yet, though I did have to modify my bolt catch by adding drop of JB weld to force the tine to push in a bit, to mitigate it wedging between the bolt carrier and the reciever and locking up the gun. That worked, and the gun runs great now. Between the two, here's what's better about the RDB: -Trigger. AUG factory trigger is shit. AUG improved trigger by throwing money at it, is much better. RDB factory trigger still beats it. -Weight - this one is actually kind of big. -Ejection -STANAG magazine compatibility. (yes, AUG mags are arguably "better", but "better" than beater GI mags and Thermolds, a modern Lancer or ETS mag is easily as good as an AUG mag, and IMHO, actually "better") -Accuracy - sorry, my RDB outshoots my AUG, but a decent amount. -Adjustability. While the RDB adjustments might need to be chanaged from ammo to ammo (which is not great) - in Duty service, one is likely to be using uniform ammo. And my AUG is WILDLY overgassed, and I can't fix that. On my RDB, I very much can. -recoil, RDB is probably the softest gun I ever shot, my AUG is a very jumpy bastard. -Supressor host - actually, I don't care as I don't run one, but universally the RDB is light-years past the AUG as a good supressor host (adjustable gas, downward eject so gas goes there) -Left side ejector covoer. My AUG eats mine occasionally. It's also a pressure release point right up against your face. If an RDB Kabooms, there's a heavy steel shell there, and all the gas is going down. In an AUG, some of that is coming through that at you. -Modern rail and MLOK host. The handguard and factory rail-space are pretty good, and give a lot more capabilities and options than the AUG. -US Standard threads on the muzzle (though I think AUG BBLs have that now, but mine does not. Mine has a Euro standard flash hider that weighs about half what my CHL pistol weighs, and about half as long too. Where my RDB runs a BCM warfighter A2 dimensioned muzzle device, which I just LOVE. Heat - this I still haven't fully tested yet, but I need to do a 3-4 mag mag-dupm in my RDB to really test that. If Combat Duty is of interst, that needs to be done. An AUG is well proven to be able to handle that. I think an RDB can too, plenty people have run it like that. Where the AUG beats the RDB, and IMHO this is no small thing, is a more secure mag-retention system. you're never going to inadvertantly release the mag of an AUG. but grab an RDB by the middle to carry it around, and be careful, because you may have just popped your magazine. I really wish there was a way to move that. The AUG also has the "advantage" of the removable barrel. But really, so too does the RDB, basically. The AUG's version is mor egimmic than actually usafeful, sorry, but it is. Nobody swaps out barrels in reality. Useful for breakdown and more compact storage I guess. As a civiliian for home-use and civilian life use, even for Serious Business outings - I'll take the RDB over the AUG. Not sure if that answers your question there. |
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5/4/2024 update Fired 93 rounds today How was your day?   Two goals today: 1) Explorations with cheap light and laser systems circa-2024 (we've come a long way). 2) Finally run some mag-dumps, and get it hot. See photo, for about 75 rounds run very very fast run and gun. On topic 1, It's talked about more in-depth here: https://www.ar15.com/forums/ar-15/Cheap-Amazon-weapon-lights-and-lasers-circa-2024-Lazy-s-comparisons-and-review/20-786095/&page=1&anc=bottom#bottom If you noticed, originally I had been running a smaller cheap laser/light rated at 350 lumen (probably closer to 200+ actually, which is still pretty good), but mounted forward on the top of the rail. But for this trial, I decided to look at even brighter lights, with a $28 light/laser combo on a $2 45 degree quick release mount (to keep it clear of optics path). Eh, it went about as expected, the system didn't hold zero to my satisfaction. It's odd, but I seem to have more struggles the larger and heavier it is. the 450 Lumen unit is built different a decent amount lighter, so I switched to that. It did better, and mostly held zero under recoil - decent (not great). Biggest issue is the 45 degree quick-release mount (to keep it out of the way of the scope-view), isn't so secure with just a thumb-screw, and loosens itself, losing zero and falling off if not careful. Also, the 45 degree mount is fine if use a tool to torque it down, but so much for "quick release". So.. partial success in that I have a plan and it should work, but need to give it another run to prove it out. Item 2: Run it HOt! People have said RDB's get hot, but so far I had not experienced that. So, today I finally ran the mags in that photo, all within a couple minutes or so of rapid-fire. RDB heat-cycle is interesting. At first it doesn't heat up much at all, and as soon as I was done, I was able to walk back to the table with it fine. Warm, but not so bad. Wait 30 more seconds though - and YOWZERS. That sucker really does get HOT. Interestingly the metal handguard and sight rails are good radiators, so within just a few minutes you can handle the gun again - but I will say if you are intending to do multiple mag-dumps with an RDB running an aluminum hand-rail - bring gloves. If the intent is to make this gun a "serious business" Ukranian Deployment level gun, keep the plastic handguard on it, or otherwise do something clever if you run an aluminum one. OK, so to BackEnder's question earlier in this thread - is it a good idea to leave the plastic light/laser mounted forward like that at the end of the RDB right atop the gas black? I'm going to say that's a pretty hard NO, it's not a good idea. I think the 45 degree offset mounted light, mounted about half way up the mount, is better. It still gets pretty hot, but better, and the off-set mount will separate and slow the heat flow some as well. I'd comment more on that, and on how well my 450 LM light worked out - but the damned "quick release" mount - when put on finger tight, unscrews itself and falls off mid-string, doing this. So that didn't work so good. I think with some torque from a tool onto thus-now-former "quick release" mount, will likely fix that. My other option is to just under-mount it right in front of the optic; where it's cooler. Which I might do, but I hate that as the light hits the rail the whole length down and just makes this gleaming blinding front end of the gun that will blind you - if not careful. We'll see, haven't decided. Also, the heat from the gas-block and forward section of the rail is so intense, after those mag-dumps the mirage shows up even in a 2.5X CQB optic - which is kind impressive. So that's one thing the AR system does better - is they don't heat up nearly that bad. I then immediately ran a 5 shot 50 yard string within about 30 seconds, and had a good bit of vertical stringing and the impacts were at least 1 MOA higher. Though even just 60 seconds or so after that, zero returned closer to normal, and the stringing mostly went away. Goal 2 Conclusion - Yep, it gets very hot; hotter than an AR15 at same round count - by a good bit. And yes, the rail section above the gas-block is all-but unusably hot. The whole rail heats up, but not so bad where the main optic is. Total Round Count: 1260 |
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Some technical items from the above outing - just documenting to store the data somewhere: (i.e., this is way more academic than most people are going to be interested in - you've been warned!) Cold barrel zero check with main sight. Impact is about right. Grouping accuracy not super great, but this was just ball ammo too. My AUG shoots about the same (usually worse). MY AR shot it 1 MOA same outing though. Ah well, serviceable for ball.  Running a green laser test trial, here are the relative impacts of the laser mounted at a 45 degree offset via quick release system (before the quick-release fell off)  25 yards  15 yards  10 yards  Or to restate. From this on-paper testing, For a 200 yard zero'd rifle. Impacts were 50 yards (main sight / green laser) 1.2" low (main sight) / 1.2" low (green laser, which was zero'd to match main sight at 50) 25 yds 1.8" low / 1.1" low (0.1" Left) 15 yds 2.7" low / 1.7" low (1" left) 10 yds 2.7" low / 2.1" low (1.7" left) So the laser (being lower), tempered the off-set of the impact at closer range some, but being offset itself a bit horizontally, that showed up some. This is probably way more academic than actually meaningful, but hey - I recorded the data, so there it is. After the high heat trial, I altered my laser/light concept and decided to go with a different more resilient unit (the 450LM unit holds up better to recoil at keeping zero, than the bigger 600 LM unit), and I went with a different non-quick-release off-set rail, mounted further back - to try and stay a bit farther from the heat, and also hopefully not fall off, when it gets hot.  Of course there is some experimental error "noise" in there - such is the way of things. |
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5/19/2024 update Fired 50 rounds today (no jams or other issues) Two goals today: 1) Zero the laser - and test how well it holds zero 2) do a 5 strings of 5 test, for MOA as well as POI observation Accuracy wasn't that great, I ran some 55 ball, and the gun hasn't been cleaned for a quite a while now, so maybe a factor.  Sequence of fire was at just 50 yards, from bipod 1st string - CENTER then 2nd - Top L 3rd - Top R 4th - Bottom L 5th - Bottom R And tried to run quickly so the gun could heat up. Results inconclusive since the groups were pretty large. First cold group in dirty gun was biggest - at 3.9MOA, and 1.6 MOA low Last group was : 3.98 MOA, 0.1 MOA low. With smallest group at 2.4 MOA and 1.2 MOA low I did try some better ammo, and got:  I think I can get that down to even lower. Green laser held zero decently, but not great, and would shift around a couple inches at 50 yards. Total Round Count: 1310 |
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Originally Posted By mcantu: Totally off topic but I have a theory on why some.people have issues with the AUG ejection port cover hitting the bolt carrier. Do you still have the original exterior port cover? Could you post pictures of it on a flat surface? On the AUG? I do, but it's mangled. So I mangled it back and reinstalled it. And did such a good job ot basically doesn't come off now. And forcing it will undo my counter-mangling. Which I don't want to do because it's well mangled, in that it stays on, aNd hasn't been struck by the AUG carrier. aNd knocked off by the bolt carrier in a while now, so I don't want to mess with my perfected mangling. 
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5/24/2024 update 100 rounds (no jams or other issues) Just some plinking at the range with some friends. Laser/light seems to be working out OK for now. I'll need to do some mag-dumps and really heat up the gun to test that. Also, the gas system has carboned up a bit, so rottating the dial isn't as easy with fingers as it used to be. Had to use a bullet tip.  Upon cleaning it up, I discovered the front handguard screws were a bit loose. So tightened that up. Curious if that will affect accuracy. Also, the short-stroke piston part actually you can pull out and clean, so I did. Hadn't done that until now. I put a tiny bit of Mobile-1 red grease on it, that's high T rated, we'll see how that works out. Measured throat erosion. 0 rounds = 2.482" OAL with an 80.5 Nosler HPBT (reference bullet I use for this test) 1410 rounds = 2.502" OAL with an 80.5 Nosler HPBT Or nominally it grew 20 thou in 1400 rounds. Which is about typical for a .223 barrel, and pretty decent even. Here's a borescan. Looks pretty good, they did a nice job cutting a uniform throat and good crown, both holding up good. And the gas-port looks good too. Barrel cleaned up pretty good, with no visible copper build-up (I used Butch's Bore Shine to clean it, if that's asked) Total Round Count: 1410 |
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5/27/2024 update 40 rounds (no jams or other issues) After discovering the loose handguard, was curious if last outings accuracy results were related to that. It appears so. After a good barrel cleaning and tightening the handguard back to the handguard, accuracy was better today. POI moved a LOT, like 10 MOA, by tightening back down the handguard. That really surprised me. once done with that: 200 yards:  Top group is the OLD NORMA 55gr TAC, the stuff with the European brass. Which is known-match-quality 55 FMJ ammo. And it shot 2 MOA. Which isn't super great, but for this gun, 2 MOA is about right, and not bad. Gas was at -4, and 2986 FPS Bottom group is my own mass produced 55 FMJ reloads (Hornady bullets) - 2.2 MOA. Meh, I'd prefer 1.5, but I guess not going to get that. I can make 2 MOA work. 100 yards:  shooting some 55 HPBT reload pulls. Eh, serviceable. First group fired cold was the center, and that was the biggest group. As it warmed up, got below 2 MOA, so not bad. POI didn't shift a whole lot, which is good. Fun day shooting, it shot OK. Total Round Count: 1450 |
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Originally Posted By lazyengineer: 5/24/2024 update 100 rounds (no jams or other issues) Just some plinking at the range with some friends. Laser/light seems to be working out OK for now. I'll need to do some mag-dumps and really heat up the gun to test that. Also, the gas system has carboned up a bit, so rottating the dial isn't as easy with fingers as it used to be. Had to use a bullet tip. https://i.postimg.cc/yx1ZTbK3/20240519-165912.jpg Upon cleaning it up, I discovered the front handguard screws were a bit loose. So tightened that up. Curious if that will affect accuracy. Also, the short-stroke piston part actually you can pull out and clean, so I did. Hadn't done that until now. I put a tiny bit of Mobile-1 red grease on it, that's high T rated, we'll see how that works out. Measured throat erosion. 0 rounds = 2.482" OAL with an 80.5 Nosler HPBT (reference bullet I use for this test) 1410 rounds = 2.502" OAL with an 80.5 Nosler HPBT Or nominally it grew 20 thou in 1400 rounds. Which is about typical for a .223 barrel, and pretty decent even. Here's a borescan. Looks pretty good, they did a nice job cutting a uniform throat and good crown, both holding up good. And the gas-port looks good too. Barrel cleaned up pretty good, with no visible copper build-up (I used Butch's Bore Shine to clean it, if that's asked) Total Round Count: 1410 That shirt and downward ejection seems like a terrible combination. |
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Originally Posted By lazyengineer: 5/24/2024 update 100 rounds (no jams or other issues) Just some plinking at the range with some friends. Laser/light seems to be working out OK for now. I'll need to do some mag-dumps and really heat up the gun to test that. Also, the gas system has carboned up a bit, so rottating the dial isn't as easy with fingers as it used to be. Had to use a bullet tip. https://i.postimg.cc/yx1ZTbK3/20240519-165912.jpg Upon cleaning it up, I discovered the front handguard screws were a bit loose. So tightened that up. Curious if that will affect accuracy. Also, the short-stroke piston part actually you can pull out and clean, so I did. Hadn't done that until now. I put a tiny bit of Mobile-1 red grease on it, that's high T rated, we'll see how that works out. Measured throat erosion. 0 rounds = 2.482" OAL with an 80.5 Nosler HPBT (reference bullet I use for this test) 1410 rounds = 2.502" OAL with an 80.5 Nosler HPBT Or nominally it grew 20 thou in 1400 rounds. Which is about typical for a .223 barrel, and pretty decent even. Here's a borescan. Looks pretty good, they did a nice job cutting a uniform throat and good crown, both holding up good. And the gas-port looks good too. Barrel cleaned up pretty good, with no visible copper build-up (I used Butch's Bore Shine to clean it, if that's asked) Total Round Count: 1410 Looks better than most BA and Faxon barrels. Mine hasn’t left the safe since my charging handle issue. Just submitted a ticket to Keltec since summer is here and I’d like to go shoot it without beating it on stuff to be able to charge it.
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https://instagram.com/_odiegreen_?igshid=OGQ5ZDc2ODk2ZA==
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Originally Posted By -OdieGreen-: Looks better than most BA and Faxon barrels. Mine hasn’t left the safe since my charging handle issue. Just submitted a ticket to Keltec since summer is here and I’d like to go shoot it without beating it on stuff to be able to charge it. Have you sent yours in yet? |
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Been busy, and will follow up more when able - but to my question on tightening up the loose handguard screws - this actually correlated with a substantial POI shift and accuracy improvement, tightening those back up good. I put blue loctite on them, which was probably a waste of time, considering what they are in direct contact with, and that gun does heat up a LOT, under sustained fire. 2 mag dumps and you better be wearing gloves. One item, there are 5 screw holes in the front of the handguard, but my bottom one is gone. I can't recall, but is it supposed to be gone? For some reason I have a thought you are only supposed to us 4 of those holes and leave the 5th (bottom) one empty - but I have no idea why I think that and couldn't find any documentation or directions on that. Just one youtube where the guyentioned he doesn't have that 5th screw either. |
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Originally Posted By lazyengineer: Been busy, and will follow up more when able - but to my question on tightening up the loose handguard screws - this actually correlated with a substantial POI shift and accuracy improvement, tightening those back up good. I put blue loctite on them, which was probably a waste of time, considering what they are in direct contact with, and that gun does heat up a LOT, under sustained fire. 2 mag dumps and you better be wearing gloves. One item, there are 5 screw holes in the front of the handguard, but my bottom one is gone. I can't recall, but is it supposed to be gone? For some reason I have a thought you are only supposed to us 4 of those holes and leave the 5th (bottom) one empty - but I have no idea why I think that and couldn't find any documentation or directions on that. Just one youtube where the guyentioned he doesn't have that 5th screw either. I have that on the Raptor as well. But Ive never used it,never had a screw for it.. |
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Originally Posted By -OdieGreen-: Looks better than most BA and Faxon barrels. Mine hasn’t left the safe since my charging handle issue. Just submitted a ticket to Keltec since summer is here and I’d like to go shoot it without beating it on stuff to be able to charge it. Originally Posted By -OdieGreen-: Originally Posted By lazyengineer: 5/24/2024 update 100 rounds (no jams or other issues) Just some plinking at the range with some friends. Laser/light seems to be working out OK for now. I'll need to do some mag-dumps and really heat up the gun to test that. Also, the gas system has carboned up a bit, so rottating the dial isn't as easy with fingers as it used to be. Had to use a bullet tip. https://i.postimg.cc/yx1ZTbK3/20240519-165912.jpg Upon cleaning it up, I discovered the front handguard screws were a bit loose. So tightened that up. Curious if that will affect accuracy. Also, the short-stroke piston part actually you can pull out and clean, so I did. Hadn't done that until now. I put a tiny bit of Mobile-1 red grease on it, that's high T rated, we'll see how that works out. Measured throat erosion. 0 rounds = 2.482" OAL with an 80.5 Nosler HPBT (reference bullet I use for this test) 1410 rounds = 2.502" OAL with an 80.5 Nosler HPBT Or nominally it grew 20 thou in 1400 rounds. Which is about typical for a .223 barrel, and pretty decent even. Here's a borescan. Looks pretty good, they did a nice job cutting a uniform throat and good crown, both holding up good. And the gas-port looks good too. Barrel cleaned up pretty good, with no visible copper build-up (I used Butch's Bore Shine to clean it, if that's asked) Total Round Count: 1410 Looks better than most BA and Faxon barrels. Mine hasn’t left the safe since my charging handle issue. Just submitted a ticket to Keltec since summer is here and I’d like to go shoot it without beating it on stuff to be able to charge it. My RDB is only a few weeks old, but it looks like the charging handle has been redesigned since you had issues. Looks like it has a steel core sandwiched between two thick plastic pieces. That should eliminate the problem that you were having. |
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Originally Posted By mini14jac: My RDB is only a few weeks old, but it looks like the charging handle has been redesigned since you had issues. Looks like it has a steel core sandwiched between two thick plastic pieces. That should eliminate the problem that you were having. What does yours look like? I have a preproduction Rdb |
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Originally Posted By mini14jac: My RDB is only a few weeks old, but it looks like the charging handle has been redesigned since you had issues. Looks like it has a steel core sandwiched between two thick plastic pieces. That should eliminate the problem that you were having. They told me to file it down and send it in if that doesn’t work. Going to give it one more go with a more heavy file since I didn’t remove all that much before. |
https://instagram.com/_odiegreen_?igshid=OGQ5ZDc2ODk2ZA==
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The RDB is so underrated. I really wish they would release a polished gen 2 or license the design to someone. The handguard mounting and top rail could definitely use some improvement It's the softest shooting and least gassy suppressed gun I have. And a sub 30" package that can beat LVL III armor at HD distances is pretty sick 
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Originally Posted By lazyengineer: To the first question, I say the RDB. To the second question... that one is tougher. TBH, I'd probably take an AR15 variant, for the common parts. One item of note, is that the aluminum handguards that are way cooler and more useful, actually kind of suck in extended use and military level conditions. They will heat up to unusable temperatures in about 3 high-rate mag dumps (at near full-auto rates). Worse, they will suck the heat right out of your hand way more than you can believe in a cool night (where "combat" duty generally means sitting on your ass most of the time, in the dark, on a cold night). The AUG beats the RDB with my handguard there. So if I did take the RDB, I'd probably reinstall the plastic handguard. Which will also assure no one steals my rifle, but Holy Crap is that thing ugly. Utilitarian, but Ugly. What I really want is for a first-line outfit to make an RDB derivative, where the eliminate the screws and Kel-Tec KetLec'ness, as then I think the RDB would be an outstanding gun. I think the RDB already is outstanding, but too many screws. Originally Posted By lazyengineer: To the first question, I say the RDB. To the second question... that one is tougher. TBH, I'd probably take an AR15 variant, for the common parts. One item of note, is that the aluminum handguards that are way cooler and more useful, actually kind of suck in extended use and military level conditions. They will heat up to unusable temperatures in about 3 high-rate mag dumps (at near full-auto rates). Worse, they will suck the heat right out of your hand way more than you can believe in a cool night (where "combat" duty generally means sitting on your ass most of the time, in the dark, on a cold night). The AUG beats the RDB with my handguard there. So if I did take the RDB, I'd probably reinstall the plastic handguard. Which will also assure no one steals my rifle, but Holy Crap is that thing ugly. Utilitarian, but Ugly. What I really want is for a first-line outfit to make an RDB derivative, where the eliminate the screws and Kel-Tec KetLec'ness, as then I think the RDB would be an outstanding gun. I think the RDB already is outstanding, but too many screws. If the gator texture on the handguard bothers you, perhaps cover it with grip tape like you did the pistol grip? Maybe even do it on a Hunter or Survival handguard if you don't like the chonkiness of the standard one and bolt a section of pic rail to the bottom for your foregrip. As for the screws. Is there anything inside the rifle that would require the two halves of the lower to be separated if you had to remove/replace them? If not perhaps glue them together with maybe some polymer pins driven through and glued in place of the screws for extra reinforcement. No more screws to worry about, and with good adhesive, it's effectively one solid piece now. I suspect KT didn't really NEED to do 2 separate halves for the design so much as it just made the plastic molding simpler and cheaper. Originally Posted By lazyengineer: Where the AUG beats the RDB, and IMHO this is no small thing, is a more secure mag-retention system. you're never going to inadvertantly release the mag of an AUG. but grab an RDB by the middle to carry it around, and be careful, because you may have just popped your magazine. I really wish there was a way to move that. Not sure if that answers your question there. I have an idea of how that could be accomplished with a button on the side of the receiver. Would be just a small assembly bolted to the side similar to the Lucky Irishman bolt release and the original mag release removed. Keeping it ambi would be a bit more complicated though. Or perhaps even an AUG-style ambi lever/button behind the magwell. I really have to get around to getting one. So many ideas for improvements to it in my head. Also, I'd be curious to see how getting rid of the top rail would affect accuracy. Or perhaps not entirely get rid of it but simply have it not bridge across from the rear trunnion to the gas block. Just a short section of rail over the rear trunnion for your optic mount, and a short section above the gas block for a front iron sight or as in your case, a light/laser. But no solid bridge between them. I suppose you still have the issue of the handguard putting pressure on the barrel. But that can be solved too depending on how much modifying and fabrication one wants to do. |
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Originally Posted By Nickel_Plated: ..Also, I'd be curious to see how getting rid of the top rail would affect accuracy. Or perhaps not entirely get rid of it but simply have it not bridge across from the rear trunnion to the gas block. Just a short section of rail over the rear trunnion for your optic mount, and a short section above the gas block for a front iron sight or as in your case, a light/laser. But no solid bridge between them. I suppose you still have the issue of the handguard putting pressure on the barrel. But that can be solved too depending on how much modifying and fabrication one wants to do. This has been done,does not affect the rifle. https://www.thektog.org/threads/free-float-hanguard-prototype-rant.276342/ Accuracy in the Rdb is good when you find what yours likes |
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11/10/2024 UPDATE - no rounds fired got a nice deal on one of the new PA 3x MicroPrism  this drops my weight from 8 lb, to about 7 1/2 lbs. that's a decent amount. I haven't ired the new scope yet. mixed emotions. the quality is high and the size and weight savings are meaningful. but the field of view is a good bit smaller. also, I don't generally care for 3x as a CQB magnification, and prefer 2.5x. I also prefer the old Koala Of Death reticle, vs the smaller new ACSS one. we'll see. I'll give it a go.   |
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Originally Posted By lazyengineer: 11/10/2024 UPDATE - no rounds fired got a nice deal on one of the new PA 3x MicroPrism https://i.postimg.cc/RZ6zrpMq/20241110-154616.jpg this drops my weight from 8 lb, to about 7 1/2 lbs. that's a decent amount. I haven't ired the new scope yet. mixed emotions. the quality is high and the size and weight savings are meaningful. but the field of view is a good bit smaller. also, I don't generally care for 3x as a CQB magnification, and prefer 2.5x. I also prefer the old Koala Of Death reticle, vs the smaller new ACSS one. we'll see. I'll give it a go. https://i.postimg.cc/wBD8MtRp/20241110-154710.jpg https://i.postimg.cc/Dw937QZ6/20241110-154716.jpg How are you liking the 3x? I'm using the same 2.5x you were (I think they were being blown out at $100 when I got it). I like it a lot but 1/2lb weight savings is tempting. |
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Originally Posted By VTD: @lazyengineer How are you liking the 3x? I'm using the same 2.5x you were (I think they were being blown out at $100 when I got it). I like it a lot but 1/2lb weight savings is tempting. Originally Posted By VTD: Originally Posted By lazyengineer: 11/10/2024 UPDATE - no rounds fired got a nice deal on one of the new PA 3x MicroPrism https://i.postimg.cc/RZ6zrpMq/20241110-154616.jpg this drops my weight from 8 lb, to about 7 1/2 lbs. that's a decent amount. I haven't ired the new scope yet. mixed emotions. the quality is high and the size and weight savings are meaningful. but the field of view is a good bit smaller. also, I don't generally care for 3x as a CQB magnification, and prefer 2.5x. I also prefer the old Koala Of Death reticle, vs the smaller new ACSS one. we'll see. I'll give it a go. https://i.postimg.cc/wBD8MtRp/20241110-154710.jpg https://i.postimg.cc/Dw937QZ6/20241110-154716.jpg How are you liking the 3x? I'm using the same 2.5x you were (I think they were being blown out at $100 when I got it). I like it a lot but 1/2lb weight savings is tempting. I like it, but miss some aspects of the 2.5x. I haven't switched back yet, which answered your question perhaps. |
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Just bought an RDB off GrabaGun for the $619 deal. Mainly because of this post and a recent purchase of a CMR30 that impressed me with the quality of manufacture. Honestly, I kind of always looked down on KelTec since all I ever knew about them is the spotty manufacturing and lack of reliability going back to the 1990’s. Evidently they’ve made lots of progress in both departments and are worthy of my hard earned $$$. Ordered the gun at 2am and it shows as already shipped. Can’t wait to pick it up at my LGS. |
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Originally Posted By Princeton: Just bought an RDB off GrabaGun for the $619 deal. Mainly because of this post and a recent purchase of a CMR30 that impressed me with the quality of manufacture. Honestly, I kind of always looked down on KelTec since all I ever knew about them is the spotty manufacturing and lack of reliability going back to the 1990’s. Evidently they’ve made lots of progress in both departments and are worthy of my hard earned $$$. Ordered the gun at 2am and it shows as already shipped. Can’t wait to pick it up at my LGS. You're going to be pleased with it. To repeat a couple items. -beware some of the screws in the rig are going to come loose, and you won't know which ones. So keep an appropriate allan-wrench etc with you and gun, and check that for the next several outings. And make sure at least one outing includes a cook (high round count). Have blue-loctote. Whoever comes loose, pull all the way, and blue-loctite it back. This mostly is a one-time thing... mostly. -Accuracy on a new barrel can be random. Don't dispare, it tightens up some. -The gas adjustment is tricky. I marked mine with a bright green nail-polish dot at fully "minimum" (which is actually fully vented so full open for fully weakest operation - if that's not confusing as Hell). In mine, most things run at 2-5 clicks from fully "minimum", (I guess you could call it). That can vary. -Don't overly dry fire it. One of the tricks to make the trigger so good is there is no transfer bar as we are familiar. And with that, there's a very long hammer throw distance. To keep lock-time undercontrol, there's a very strong spring on that, to speed that up. Which means it hits pretty hard. You can dry fire it, but be aware that's possibly harder on this firing pin, than typical. (I'm guessing) -Enjoy it, once you learn its nuances (just like any gun), you'll grow to really like it. My personal recommendation is to pair it with a PA 3X microdot, to keep that svelt weight, still svelt. Btw, I did talk to KelTec at SHOT this year. Really neat guys. One of the development team guys shares my logic train on why this gun in particular should be paired with 6.5 Grendel in particular. Being the most size-optimized gun you can get, combining it with the most optimized small frame round you can get, would be pretty bad-ass. The good news is he agrees so much he built one for himself. The bad news is he did that out of his own funds, because KelTek corporate is never going to. 
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I appreciate all the advise. Btw, I did talk to KelTec at SHOT this year. Really neat guys. One of the development team guys shares my logic train on why this gun in particular should be paired with 6.5 Grendel in particular. Being the most size-optimized gun you can get, combining it with the most optimized small frame round you can get, would be pretty bad-ass. The good news is he agrees so much he built one for himself. The bad news is he did that out of his own funds, because KelTek corporate is never going to. Not surprised they aren’t going to build into the Grendel, the ammo isn’t exactly cheap and I wouldn’t think they’d sell a whole lot of rifles. Might sell some conversion kits to adapt guns to Grendel though. Probably would do better with .300 BO but I’m doubtful they’d take that chance with a chamber so close to the shooters face and the possibility of loading 5.56 and having a ruptured case. |
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3/09/2025 update 50 rounds (Two no strikes - likely the ammo fault, not the gun) Did some quick CQB shooting with some old 55gr reloads. A portion of this older reloaded 5.56 ammo lot wasn't working in a separate AR due to insufficient ammo headspace (too long, not resized enough). Two rounds from this same lot, run through the RDB, did not fire. No primer strikes, so again, probably too long and the bolt wouldn't close - not the guns fault. The really odd part though, was these rounds were very easy to extract and remove. In an AR15 I would have to mortar and just PITA when headspace is too long. But with the RDB, there was no effort at all racking the handle to jack the round out. Just odd. A fellow at the range came over curious what the gun was. When he fired it: "not only is the recoil low - there's no recoil at all with this gun! I need to get one of these" Total Round Count: 1650 |
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You figured out a decent way to mount a light to the stock handguard without using the bottom rail? I was thinking of trying to mill some mlok slots into it using a template. And then also shaving the pic rail off the bottom. Also, can't remember the user but he modified a Magpul Zhukov S handguard. Pretty awesome just don't like the gap between the trigger guard and bottom of the handguard. Had a black RDB and regretted selling it, now have an FDE one. Attached File |
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3/22/2025 update 200 rounds (No-fire hammer strikes - diagnosed to a gun part that broke - see text) Did some 200 yard shooting to see heat effects on POI, and quantify some zero's. Disrupted by frequent failures to fire, that I couldn't diagnose fully until got home. Accuracy was only mostly OK, at 2-3MOA and zero seemed to hold OK, I think. Need to repeat. Here's what I saw when I finally had a chance to take a closer look at the gun, while trying to figure out why I was getting click - but no fire. And the brass was coming out untouched.    So apparently the clip that holds the fairly stupid out of date sling mount hooks, fell off, allowing the sling-point to fall into the gun, which was blocking the hammer from going all the way home. So, I pulled out the back 5 screws on each side (10 total), and was able to peel apart the clamshell well enough to just pull out those two points, to mitigate that risk of failure from coming back. I never use those mount points anyway, and this is a weak design implementation. Now I've got 2 big holes in my reciever though. It's not a big deal having the holes there, it doesn't hurt anything. But I looked for a sticker or something to cover them anyway. Ah, here we go - found this sticker floating around:  Total Round Count: 1850 |
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Originally Posted By fivepointoh: You figured out a decent way to mount a light to the stock handguard without using the bottom rail? I was thinking of trying to mill some mlok slots into it using a template. And then also shaving the pic rail off the bottom. Also, can't remember the user but he modified a Magpul Zhukov S handguard. Pretty awesome just don't like the gap between the trigger guard and bottom of the handguard. Had a black RDB and regretted selling it, now have an FDE one. https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/90543/IMG_8540_jpeg-3498077.JPG Not yet. I tried doing one of those lightweight 45 degree offset rail mounts, but it couldn't take the abuse and fell off. I like the concept- but sometimes $5 Amazon works fine. Sometimes it does not. I upgraded to a higher end quick release 35 degree offset to only reply the light manually at night, and keep it off during the day - to keep the gun lean. It's ok. |
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Originally Posted By fivepointoh: You figured out a decent way to mount a light to the stock handguard without using the bottom rail? I was thinking of trying to mill some mlok slots into it using a template. And then also shaving the pic rail off the bottom. Also, can't remember the user but he modified a Magpul Zhukov S handguard. Pretty awesome just don't like the gap between the trigger guard and bottom of the handguard. Had a black RDB and regretted selling it, now have an FDE one. https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/90543/IMG_8540_jpeg-3498077.JPG Not yet. I tried doing one of those lightweight 45 degree offset rail mounts, but it couldn't take the abuse and fell off. I like the concept- but sometimes $5 Amazon works fine. Sometimes it does not. I upgraded to a higher end quick release 35 degree offset to only reply the light manually at night, and keep it off during the day - to keep the gun lean. It's ok. .. so that's interesting - you removed your sling swivel too I see. as well as your back screws. Why did you remove the back 2 screws? |
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Shot it some this weekend with a friend. Zero checked and some CQB running. It's zero'd for 200 yards. One nuance I've learned with this gun is if the handguard screws come lose, the zero gets really wonky. I did a full start-over and just pulled it apart, and then did a luckyIrishmen spec torque, and blue loctite. So far it's actually held (often the screws would walk out, even when above spec-torque). Zero and groupings are OK. Zero check at 200 yards. It was basically 4" or so, and mostly in the black on a 12" circle. Did some shooting and lighting up some steel. Zero checked again, and maybe drifted a little bit, but about the same. Good gun, but it has nuances. For example, to get it soft you need to dail in the gas settings. But if you switch ammo, you may need to adjust. It never jams mechanically, but it can jam if undergassed. Which isn't really the guns "fault", but it can happen. When it does, the gun always clears well enough with magazine removal and bolt stroking, so it's not actually a huge deal. Still quite like the gun. It's time to do another 3-mag ammo dump, to give it another work out. Maybe next time. But I like it, it stays on target good. |
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6/07/2025 update - 160 rounds over several outings. Excellent mechanical reliability and function; accuracy is only so-so. Fired it in several settings and distances with a spectrum of ammo. For the CQB runs, fun gun for sure.  One item I've always been iffy on the gun, is the magazine release and its location. It strikes me as something easily engaged inadvertantly. Not so much when running the gun, but in the non-firing handling (what's the cool-crowd term for that.. Administrative Usage? or whatever). The balance of the gun is excellent and when one-handed you will grab it right in the middle.  So sure enough, I set the gun on the ground, then when I went to pick it up in that center area one-handed, out came the magazine. This irks me. It's only ever happened this one time, but I wish there was a way to minimize that potential further. Anyway, that's the only mechanical aspect item. As to accuracy, it's just variable with this gun. Some groups at times can look this good.  That's a pretty darned good 200 yard group. But not really typically, mostly of the time in a 5 shot string, there will be one wild flyer (as seen here in fact). Almost every time. It just throws a round at times, I don't know why. And typical groups are close to 2-3 MOA. But that's one detail that just odd. At 25 yards, this gun can give me a 0.25" group - that tight. A solid 1 MOA. But at 100 yards, it'll be out to 2 or 3 MOA. And at 200 yards, same or worse. It's odd. In one outing I had gongs at 500 yards, and frankly, couldn't get this gun to connect very well at all, at that distance. Frustrating, because this is an increadibly tidy and compact grab and go gun. Literally, it's this small of a grab and go kit. That's a 17"BBL 5.56 rifle, 2 30's and a tool pouch, quick attach bipod, and even the sling (as the shoulder strap of the bag), all in that tiny grab and go bag. That's remarkable.  I just wish I could rely on it to hit a 10" gong first shot at 500 yards. Maybe I'm asking too much. I'm probably asking too much. Frustrated, because my AR15's can do that. Pretty much all day; 1st shot every time. I'll keep at it though, I just love everything else about this gun, the form factor, the compactness, the weight, the trigger, the handling, the reliability, the soft recoil - it's a great little gun. Total Round Count: 2140 |
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Originally Posted By mcantu: How does the AUG do with the 500 yard gongs? No better. My AUG really isn't that much more accurate than the RDB, to be honest. Toss up between the two, really. Both of them suffer from larger general groups, flyers, and sometimes shifting POI. It's not terrible necessarily in either, considering what the guns are supposed to be. But you get so spoiled by what even a basic AR can deliver today, that well, you get spoiled! I'm not aware of any US AUG's that really do AR15 level accuracy and POI retention. |
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Originally Posted By lazyengineer: It worked! My scheme to mitigate the dreaded RDB stuck-bolt-lock issue some folks have, totally worked. I ran close to 20-30 magazines to bolt-lock today, and none of them had any problems after my simple JB weld trick. Gun ran smooth and easy with the factory bolt-release button all day long. Whereas before this, about 80% of my mag-locks were locking up the gun requiring a high-vigor manual cocking action. Here is Lazy's guide to eliminating RDB stuck bolt issues. Short answer: A spot of JB Weld on the outside of the bolt-lock tines, to prevent them from being thin enough to fit and wedge in the gap between the bolt-carrier and upper receiver; but light enough application to not affect mass and free-motion of the bolt-stop mechanism. Long answer: Problem statement: For those experiencing the operations hang-up of the bolt-getting stuck in the lock back, to the point where the release lever isn't usable, and it takes a high vigor manual cocking action to break free. Cause:: This is caused by tolerance/play between the receiver rail and the bolt-carrier, allowing the tine at the end of the bolt-lock to get wedged between the reciever and the bolt carrier, locking the gun up; after the last round of a magazine. Corrective action procedure: Step 1: Identify which side this is happening on. This will be evident by scratches forming on the inside of the receiver rail, where the bolt-stop tine (the end of the 4" long bolt stop part, where it engages the face of the carrier to stop the bolt). In my case it was on the right (starboard) side. Step 2: apply protective tape on the inside of the lower receiver so that drips and overages don't get stuck on the ejection chute outside wall or on the plastic lower. (I used electrical tape applied to the inside surfaces flanking the bolt-stop tine; for both tines. (where "tine" is the end of the long stamped-metal bolt-stop that engages the face of the carrier) I.e. Tine is clear, but the receiver components around it are now covered in electrical tape for the duration of the application procedure. Step 3: JBWeld and toothpicks. Carefully apply a small 1/2" run (ish) on the outside of the metal tine, towards the end. This can be quite thin, 1/32" layer. The purpose of this is to every so little, push the tine in, so it no longer is aligned with the tolerance-play gap formed between the bolt-carrier and the receiver rail. So that now it just engages the face of the bolt-carrier. Note this application is only effective where the tine part gets raised above the lower-receiver and into the channel-area of the upper. So only 1/16" down the tine is needed - if that. Don't apply to the contact-face of the tine that engages the face of the bolt-carrier, as that part will get impacted and I can't say if it will hold up long to that. Step 4: Using clean toothpicks, scrape the face and top of the tine clear, and then with a clean toothpick, run it along the top of the tine at a 45 (or so) degree angle, which will put small angle on the JB weld that's applied along the vertical outside surface of the tine. Do this for both tines. This way as the bolt-stop tine gets raised by the empty mag engagement and contacts the upper receiver rail, it won't just stop, but push in a bit, which is all you need. We're talking 1/64" is all it takes to eliminate this problem. Step 5: let sit for at least 8 hours, then pull off the tape, reassemble, and make sure everything is running OK by hand action (i.e. make sure you don't screw up and JB weld something frozen somewhere) Lazy, have you ever considered making a YouTube video that covers this procedure? I think it would help clarify how you corrected this. |
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These are going for bottom dollar again. I bought one 5 years ago for just under $600 if I remember correctly. I thought it was a great deal at the time. It was a black one and I always wanted either a FDE or OD green. So, I ended up getting a new in box OD green RDB-17 for $605 total on Gunbroker included all the taxes, shipping, fees, etc. I'll strip off the Lucky Irish rail on the black one and paint it to go with the OD green one once I'll put some rounds through it to make sure it's running right. I also have an OD Green RDB Hunter that I picked up cheap a few years ago, but it was used whereas the RDB-17s were both new in box. I just think these are cheap enough to be a range toy and go with my Turkish 1911 or bullpup shotgun. They are such a great value at the $600 mark. I'm $750 into my A3 Triad bullpup and that's only because I bought both the upper & kit used at a discount. I really don't want to drop test either one if possible, but do enjoy playing with something unusual. |
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Originally Posted By ihon: These are going for bottom dollar again. I bought one 5 years ago for just under $600 if I remember correctly. I thought it was a great deal at the time. It was a black one and I always wanted either a FDE or OD green. So, I ended up getting a new in box OD green RDB-17 for $605 total on Gunbroker included all the taxes, shipping, fees, etc. I'll strip off the Lucky Irish rail on the black one and paint it to go with the OD green one once I'll put some rounds through it to make sure it's running right. I also have an OD Green RDB Hunter that I picked up cheap a few years ago, but it was used whereas the RDB-17s were both new in box. I just think these are cheap enough to be a range toy and go with my Turkish 1911 or bullpup shotgun. They are such a great value at the $600 mark. I'm $750 into my A3 Triad bullpup and that's only because I bought both the upper & kit used at a discount. I really don't want to drop test either one if possible, but do enjoy playing with something unusual. If I could get a Green RDB cash and done for $600, you bet your ass! Great deal. As to video request ,sorry not a priority. |
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They pop up pretty regularly on Gunbroker. You have to be careful on Gunbroker as you have to take the fees into account. After you win the item, there are still more fees to be added which can make a smoking deal into an okay one. My RDB was $530 NIB per the winning bid, which is a great deal. Between credit card fees (3%), shipping ($35), taxes and FFL ($25), I'll be at $605. Less great, but I'm still good. So now I have 3x RDB rifles. I'll end up eventually either selling one when the prices it too good to pass up or trade it for the next must have item. I don't hesitate to buy a gun if the price is right. I know I can always trade it for something in the future. Half of my guns were bought because I thought the prices was great at the time and I had play money in my pocket. Gunbroker doesn't help as I can buy a gun in between projects at work and claim they help me blow off steam. |
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