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[ARCHIVED THREAD] - Lesson learned. Buy direct from TNVC (Page 1 of 2)
Posted: 2/16/2012 5:27:43 PM EDT
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| WOW, that is a pretty huge difference from what was advertised. Best of luck to you in getting this made right. If it was an honest mistake (ie. they were sold to him this way and described as such) and he's got any amount of integrity he should refund you, hope this wasn't outright misrepresentation. If so, that is tremendous EE seller fail. |
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I believe the seller will refund my money. Waiting to hear from him on the matter. I just bought a 1425.00 wilcox mount for them, which I had to email Vic and see if I can get a credit for that towards a bino of some sort. Next biggest question is what to get? BNVD-Gs or Dual Mums I will start a poll
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Call me crazy but I've done the binoc thing and I prefer having one eye still dark adapted. If you are driving or doing something else that requires good depth perception, however, then I see the usefulness. And holy $$$ I had no idea helmet mounts had gotten THAT EXPENSIVE!!
ETA: You could probably get a good weapon sight and a monoc w/ regular helmet mount for a similar net expenditure, do you already have a weapon sight? |
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Quoted: I'd get the BNVD-Gs. If nothing else than the weight and $500 difference. Seems if you're gonna buy 2 monoculars and strap them together, you may as well just get another PVS-14 for the setup you already have. I sold my only PVS-14 to a friend. I will be starting from scratch. Here are some numbers I just ran. BNVD-G with hand selected tubes- $7,895.00 I can buy the Mums separate on the site for $3499.00 each plus the dual mount for $637.50 for a total of $7,635.50. Which is way cheaper than advertised under the binocular section. I can buy two PVS-14s hand select for $3,850.00 each plus the dual mount for $475.00 for a total of $8,245.00 Summary Dual Mum- $7,635.00 BNVD-G- $7895.00 Dual 14s- $8,245.00 Also will pick up a Norotos INVG mount with either dual setup.
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Quoted: Call me crazy but I've done the binoc thing and I prefer having one eye still dark adapted. If you are driving or doing something else that requires good depth perception, however, then I see the usefulness. And holy $$$ I had no idea helmet mounts had gotten THAT EXPENSIVE!! ETA: You could probably get a good weapon sight and a monoc w/ regular helmet mount for a similar net expenditure, do you already have a weapon sight? No weapon sights. Weapon mount NV is teh suck. DBAL-D2 for the win. ETA: I prefer bino set up for my purposes. |
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Quoted: WOW, that is a pretty huge difference from what was advertised. Best of luck to you in getting this made right. If it was an honest mistake (ie. they were sold to him this way and described as such) and he's got any amount of integrity he should refund you, hope this wasn't outright misrepresentation. If so, that is tremendous EE seller fail. Whether they were misrepresented to him has nothing to do with me getting duped  . Full refund please. |
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Call me crazy but I've done the binoc thing and I prefer having one eye still dark adapted. If you are driving or doing something else that requires good depth perception, however, then I see the usefulness. And holy $$$ I had no idea helmet mounts had gotten THAT EXPENSIVE!! ETA: You could probably get a good weapon sight and a monoc w/ regular helmet mount for a similar net expenditure, do you already have a weapon sight? No weapon sights. Weapon mount NV is teh suck. DBAL-D2 for the win. ETA: I prefer bino set up for my purposes. It's ARFCOM, get both! 
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Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Call me crazy but I've done the binoc thing and I prefer having one eye still dark adapted. If you are driving or doing something else that requires good depth perception, however, then I see the usefulness. And holy $$$ I had no idea helmet mounts had gotten THAT EXPENSIVE!! ETA: You could probably get a good weapon sight and a monoc w/ regular helmet mount for a similar net expenditure, do you already have a weapon sight? No weapon sights. Weapon mount NV is teh suck. DBAL-D2 for the win. ETA: I prefer bino set up for my purposes. It's ARFCOM, get both! |
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WOW, that is a pretty huge difference from what was advertised. Best of luck to you in getting this made right. If it was an honest mistake (ie. they were sold to him this way and described as such) and he's got any amount of integrity he should refund you, hope this wasn't outright misrepresentation. If so, that is tremendous EE seller fail. Whether they were misrepresented to him has nothing to do with me getting duped . Full refund please. Agreed, you should get a full refund PERIOD. I was just hoping that it wasn't some ass trying to offload HIS mistake on a fellow arfcomer. His mistake or otherwise, you DESERVE a refund. It's like selling a Ferrari kit car as a Ferrari. |
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Quoted: question. and I actually want to know Why not ask for the price difference between these tubes and the ones it should be, sell the tubes you have and buy the ones your looking for and have someone install them? Thanks for any info.  Simple. Not what was advertise and I want my money back. Why should I have to go through all of that process? Not what I signed up for. |
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question. and I actually want to know Why not ask for the price difference between these tubes and the ones it should be, sell the tubes you have and buy the ones your looking for and have someone install them? Thanks for any info. Simple. Not what was advertise and I want my money back. Why should I have to go through all of that process? Not what I signed up for. Agreed wholeheartedly. Out of curiosity, you paid $6K, right? So how much are they actually worth? |
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Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: WOW, that is a pretty huge difference from what was advertised. Best of luck to you in getting this made right. If it was an honest mistake (ie. they were sold to him this way and described as such) and he's got any amount of integrity he should refund you, hope this wasn't outright misrepresentation. If so, that is tremendous EE seller fail. Whether they were misrepresented to him has nothing to do with me getting duped . Full refund please. Agreed wholeheartedly. Out of curiosity, you paid $6K, right? So how much are they actually worth? I actually paid $5,750. I am told they are worth 3,500 to 4,000 in the configuration I bought them in seen here––-> http://www.ar15.com/forums/t_7_163/953138_ANVIS_F4949_GEN_III_THIN_FILMED_AUTO_GATED_MIL_SPEC_GOGGLES_SOLD.html They are currently back in that configuration (ready for return) and Vic at TNVC agreed to refund my money on the $1425.00 WILCOX mount I bought last week for them. The seller I believe just deployed to Italy and is on a different time/day schedule than us here state side. He hasn't logged into arfcom since 4:35 am yesterday. |
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I can't see what happened in that link. What's the deal? Crappy tubes? Spikes thought he had thin filmed autogated tubes in the AVS-9 per the sellers ad. When I ran the tube numbers (which you can see from an angle through the eyepiece) I found out his tubes are actually early MX-10160 tubes made in 1995. They certainly are not autogated and not even thin filmed. Omni III performance tubes that are 17 years old is a far cry from thin film autogated. Sorry Spikes.  Hope you get a full or at least partial refund for the value difference.
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This post is NOT to bash the seller. But rather serve as a teaching lesson to those considering buying NV online or not from a reputable dealer. I am positive the seller will make this right. The scope can be upgraded to modern tubes at a cost of $2,500 to $3000. The used tube value for what is in the scope is maybe 500 a tube. Just giving you information so you and the seller can reach a fair compromise. Him being in Italy will complicate the matter. You can't mail them to Italy due to ITAR. |
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This post is NOT to bash the seller. But rather serve as a teaching lesson to those considering buying NV online or not from a reputable dealer. I am positive the seller will make this right. I've made some killer scores buying used, but there is definitely risk involved. You have to make damn sure you know exactly what you are getting or the seller must have a sterling reputation and/or clearly have something to loose if the sale goes bad. Good luck. |
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I bought a barely used FLIR unit on eBay for an awesome price. I did my homework on the seller big time. Box arrives, looks great. I open it up and take out the nylon case. Hmmm.... feels awfully light. Opened it up and it was empty!
Turned out, the unit was packed separately, kinda hidden in the original box and all was good. I about shat myself though! |
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How do the Omni IV ultra tubes compare to the Omni III and the thin film autogated Gen IIIs? ". The Navy then opted for AN/AVS-9s containing the highly reliable Omni IV Ultra tubes, the "bread and butter" of ITT's product line." The biggest leap in Gen 3 performance was Omni III to Omni IV. Everything after that was small gains. Aviation grade milspec tubes (MX-10160A/AVS6) were some of the best in that line. Never seen one that was not a high performer. Are they going to beat a Omni VII thin fim autogated ? No, but can perform very close. They are also probably some of the toughest tubes ITT ever produced. They are renowned for their ability to take abuse and keep on ticking. I still search them out to this day because of how much I like those tubes. They are not fancy like some of the new tubes but they flat out work great and are tough. I am bias but would not say this if I did not know it to be true. |
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Been burned a few times. I try to get an inspection period to make sure it is what they say but sometimes it is a coin toss. In this case I believe the guy just did not know what he had for sale. That can work for you or as in this case against.
Good deals in the used market but it is still gambling. |
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I have only bought used myself. 7 out of the 10 were great and way cheaper than buying new. In fact, several of them were sold as problem or lower grade items than they were (PVS-7B sold as gen 2 and eded up with a gen 3 Omni V tube in it). I saved enough over new (or even the retail used price) that it made up for the bad ones. It still sucks to get stuck with a bad unit, but that is the gamble on looking for deals.
3 of the 10 were not quite up to par, although not a total loss. 1 was flat out a rip with a dead power supply, but I was able to sell it to somebody who wanted to try and fix it themself. 1 was about as close to dead as you get, it even had the power wires soldered to a CR123 battery. It is total junk and I just put it in a box for a future project. 1 was a rifle scope with stripped mounting holes. The tube had burn spots in the middle. But it was cheap enough that I am fairly happy with it and really need to get somebody to put in a Heli-coil to fix it for me. I have a tube that I can put in it and get a working rifle scope for a very decent price. As stated above, try and get a inspection period. Also ask if there are any problems with the unit. Most people will tell you if asked, but fail to mention it if not asked directly. |
| I bought this set from Dannesjkold last uear and he told me these were autogated thin filmed F4949. I never had a reason to doubt him as I made multiple transactions on military grade stuff. I sent x-amount back to The buyer and in the process of making it right. I have contacted the person I bought this from and am waiting for a reply. I am appalled just as Spike 08 because I feel cheated as well. |
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Quoted: I bought this set from Dannesjkold last uear and he told me these were autogated thin filmed F4949. I never had a reason to doubt him as I made multiple transactions on military grade stuff. I sent x-amount back to The buyer and in the process of making it right. I have contacted the person I bought this from and am waiting for a reply. I am appalled just as Spike 08 because I feel cheated as well. I very much appreciate archangel7999 and his commitment to resolve. I am disgusted that an unscrupulous dealer misrepresented the ANVIS-9s to archangel7999. Taking advantage of our military personnel pisses me off to an extra degree. |
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Thanks brother, with them being manufactured in 95 they are ANVIS 6's right? We will have to wait till Dino, CJ, or Vic rolls in. I am not qualified to say  The scope is a AVS-9. It just has very early Omni III tubes. Glad you all are sorting this out. Nice to see this. Scope is still good. I would upgrade the tubes if it were mine. |
To give you an idea of the difference. Spike's pic was taken in high light conditions of a urban setting. My picture was taken in the same type of setting. One is thin film autogated and one not. Look at the difference in resolution between the two tubes. The tube I am using is a good tube but nothing stellar. Just a normal SLG tube. |
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I just bought a used PVS14 from a private party seller. It was the best used equipment purchase I have ever made. The seller gave me a great deal on the best performing tube I have ever seen. Sometimes it works out. The sellers reputation is everything. 
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This post is NOT to bash the seller. But rather serve as a teaching lesson to those considering buying NV online or not from a reputable dealer. I am positive the seller will make this right. The scope can be upgraded to modern tubes at a cost of $2,500 to $3000. The used tube value for what is in the scope is maybe 500 a tube. Just giving you information so you and the seller can reach a fair compromise. Him being in Italy will complicate the matter. You can't mail them to Italy due to ITAR. Do tell where you can get nice omni 3 or 4 tubes for 500 bucks. Lowest I've ever seen tubes that old is 1k+ per tube. I've seen 9916's (old gen2) in the 500 range, but never anvis style gen3's. New tubes run about 1700 each last I checked so maybe once again I'm doing something wrong. |
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Thanks brother, with them being manufactured in 95 they are ANVIS 6's right? They might have started life as 6's and then had the lens elements swapped for the avs-9 lenses. Realistically for what 90% of what people here will use them for the main difference is how easy the focus adj is to grab. AVS-6 are mainly used by helo pilots that need to hook a hud to the lens so when focusing the lens element can't rotate like avs 9's do. Fighter pilots of course don't care, and for ground use the AVS-9 focus knobs are a bit easier to focus with. Otherwise AVS-6 and 9's are the same housing AFAIK. |
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WOW, that is a pretty huge difference from what was advertised. Best of luck to you in getting this made right. If it was an honest mistake (ie. they were sold to him this way and described as such) and he's got any amount of integrity he should refund you, hope this wasn't outright misrepresentation. If so, that is tremendous EE seller fail. Whether they were misrepresented to him has nothing to do with me getting duped . Full refund please. Agreed wholeheartedly. Out of curiosity, you paid $6K, right? So how much are they actually worth? I actually paid $5,750. I am told they are worth 3,500 to 4,000 in the configuration I bought them in seen here––-> http://www.ar15.com/forums/t_7_163/953138_ANVIS_F4949_GEN_III_THIN_FILMED_AUTO_GATED_MIL_SPEC_GOGGLES_SOLD.html They are currently back in that configuration (ready for return) and Vic at TNVC agreed to refund my money on the $1425.00 WILCOX mount I bought last week for them. The seller I believe just deployed to Italy and is on a different time/day schedule than us here state side. He hasn't logged into arfcom since 4:35 am yesterday. JMO, 6k for what you paid isn't too far off. 3-4k would be about right for the goggles themselves, with those tubes, but the mount and helmet are spendy by themselves as well maybe near 1k. It does suck that they were misrepresented as to the tubes being newer than they were. But a brand new anvis system is 8k+. Also the omni specs people are throwing around are the bare minimums to be accepted. Aviation grade tubes were always the best so I wouldn't be surprised if 95 manufacture tubes are comperable with normal omni IV or V tubes in terms of specs. But without a datasheet that's just an opinion. |
[ARCHIVED THREAD] - Lesson learned. Buy direct from TNVC (Page 1 of 2)
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