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Posted: 9/23/2011 12:58:04 PM EDT
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I will starting to reload this fall/winter and I am trying to get what I need piece by piece instead of dropping lots of money at once.
That being said I want to reload 30-06 as close to M2 as possible to be fired out of M1 Garand and a 1917. My M1 has a tendency to dent the necks in and varies from very slight to almost enough to make the brass fold. Which dies should I use (not talking size but make)? Should I find a crimp die? Will a standard die fix the neck or do I need to look at doing something different or possibly chucking those pieces? What powder and primers should I be looking for? How much powder would I need to get near M2 performance, don't want to damage the op rod or mess with the timing of the M1. Thinking about getting the Hornady single stage just because it looks pretty easy to switch out dies plus I live near a BassPro that carries it so in a pinch I can get repair parts etc. Thank you for your input. |
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Here is great idea.
Check out the Hornady 8th Ed. because it is newest manual. Sierra is really old. I would look at IMR 4064. Good enough for Lake City. Good enough for you. Nothing slower either! No bullets over 180gr or you will bend op rod. Stand FL size dies will serve you well. I like Redding, but that is my bias. |
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You could go a bit slower then 4064, like say varget, but that's about it without an adjustable gas plug. if you only wish to replicate M2 ball, you need a chrono and load so the 150ish grs bullets are going about 2750 or so at the muzzle. That will put you in the ball park. Should be about 27-27.5 grs of 4064 (depending on case/primer/bullet, ect) and maybe 46 to 46.5 of 4895. That should put you near M2 ball specs.
I don't crimp and have shot 1000's of reloads out of my garands. I have also found that my garands seem to like the 155 noslers going about 50 FPS back of M2 ball specs for accuracy. My most recient testing found that my garand grouped 168's better then 155's and both bullets like to be going slightly slower then M2 ball specs. Start low and see what your rifle likes and keep the load in the mid range of loadings and you'll be fine. Actually, there isn't much of a reason to load M2 ball spec ammo right now as the CMP prices on surplus are right around what I could load for buying brass. No sence in reloading ammo when you could just buy it and save the empties unless you know of somewhere they are selling bullets and powder for cheaper then I can find. Stick with CCI military primers for now. They seem to work well in the garand. Make sure they are seated below flush. |
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Quoted:
Here is great idea. Check out the Hornady 8th Ed. because it is newest manual. Sierra is really old. I would look at IMR 4064. Good enough for Lake City. Good enough for you. Nothing slower either! No bullets over 180gr or you will bend op rod. Stand FL size dies will serve you well. I like Redding, but that is my bias. Yes the Sierra manual is older than Hornady 8. But you have to admit IMR-4064 is a lot older than both. 
But I don't think the data with IMR-4064 has changed too much. BTW, I got my 300 blk case gauge in today, thanks again for the tip. 
Link to 300 blk case gauge |
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Quoted:
I will starting to reload this fall/winter and I am trying to get what I need piece by piece instead of dropping lots of money at once. That being said I want to reload 30-06 as close to M2 as possible to be fired out of M1 Garand and a 1917. My M1 has a tendency to dent the necks in and varies from very slight to almost enough to make the brass fold. Which dies should I use (not talking size but make)? Should I find a crimp die? Will a standard die fix the neck or do I need to look at doing something different or possibly chucking those pieces? What powder and primers should I be looking for? How much powder would I need to get near M2 performance, don't want to damage the op rod or mess with the timing of the M1. Thinking about getting the Hornady single stage just because it looks pretty easy to switch out dies plus I live near a BassPro that carries it so in a pinch I can get repair parts etc. Thank you for your input. The trick on the ARs is to set a small piece of adhesive backed velcro (WalMart's Sewing Notions Area) on the brass deflector to act as a cushion. This works very well. Can you provide the same treatment for your M1? |
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Quoted:
You could go a bit slower then 4064, like say varget, but that's about it without an adjustable gas plug. if you only wish to replicate M2 ball, you need a chrono and load so the 150ish grs bullets are going about 2750 or so at the muzzle. That will put you in the ball park. Should be about 27-27.5 grs of 4064 (depending on case/primer/bullet, ect) and maybe 46 to 46.5 of 4895. That should put you near M2 ball specs. I don't crimp and have shot 1000's of reloads out of my garands. I have also found that my garands seem to like the 155 noslers going about 50 FPS back of M2 ball specs for accuracy. My most recient testing found that my garand grouped 168's better then 155's and both bullets like to be going slightly slower then M2 ball specs. Start low and see what your rifle likes and keep the load in the mid range of loadings and you'll be fine. Actually, there isn't much of a reason to load M2 ball spec ammo right now as the CMP prices on surplus are right around what I could load for buying brass. No sence in reloading ammo when you could just buy it and save the empties unless you know of somewhere they are selling bullets and powder for cheaper then I can find. Stick with CCI military primers for now. They seem to work well in the garand. Make sure they are seated below flush. I would not use the above load in bold its not correct load info possible typeo |
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I load the 150 SST over 47.1 grains of IMR4895 using mixed brass and CCI 200 LR primers.
Recoil is mild, velocity is about 2700 FPS. I can go hotter, but the accuracy is outstanding. Zero'd at 100, I can still smack a 6 inch gong at 200 meters with it, good enoguh for my purposes. I use a slight, slight crimp into the middle of the cannelure using the RCBS seater/crimp die. |
| 150gr. M2 bullets, RP, Win, LC, HXP cases, Remington 9 1/2 primer, using 47.0-48 grains of IMR 4895 powder will get you near to your M2 military performance. I'd start at 45 grains and work up and there's no reason to exceed 48 grains. I load 47-47.5 grains of IMR 4895 for several different 150 grain bullets. I've loaded M2 ball 150 gr, Hornady 150 fmj's, Hornady 150 SST and 150 SP's all from 47-47.5 grains with no pressure signs in the Garand. Overall length that works well with the M2 bullets in my Garands is 3.320". For Hornady's other bullets I use their recommended lengths. Check that they are not too long for your 1917. Make sure primers are seated flush or below. Chambers in the Garand often are on the long side of spec and a case gauge to set the shoulder of sized cases back a measured amount will extend case life and help prevent case separations. Often on firing the shoulders can expand forward .008-.010" and pushing them back to zero each sizing causes excessive case stretching. Hornady's Case Headspace set works well with calipers. A full-length die set is all you need. I use both Hornady and RCBS sets. I crimp bullets with cannelures for my Garands but some don't crimp. Garands are hard on brass. Military cases have a primer crimp that will have to be removed before repriming. Check to make sure it's not bending the case rim from the extractor. If I see any bent rims and the case isn't damaged I file the bent rim with a smooth file to make sure the case head is flat (before resizing) and also file any nicks left by an extractor on the edge of the rim. Follow Garand lubrication recommendations and use a proper "grease" and not just oil. Have fun and be safe. |
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OK, my thoughts on reloading for the military .30-06
-brass- best to stick to USGI or other military equivalent like HXP (actually HXP loads easier in my opinion and nearly as tough) -primers- least sensitive CCI military or regular large rifle or Remington, winchester next and I'd skip federal especially match as they're softer/more sensitve -powder IMR 4895, Hodgdon 4895, or IMR 4064 are the old accuracy standbys with 4064 in the lead, less effort and less accuracy can be had with the ball powders such as W748. (Ball powders can be great one day and then less accurate on another hotter or colder day in my experience especially with the 5.56mm, in fact some great accuracy loads I had with BLC2 would pop primers on another and was a lot less accurate than on the milder days I normally shot the load) -bullets, you get what you pay for but it also pays not to be a fool with your money. match 168's are not M2 but they're nice, accurate, and pricey. hornady makes a good bullet but you can get fine accuracy from most name brand bullets. The usgi pulls are less accurate on paper for sure. You can get a lot of shooting for your money with the CMP greek M2 ball. Save the brass it's quite good. |
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Quoted:
I will starting to reload this fall/winter and I am trying to get what I need piece by piece instead of dropping lots of money at once. That being said I want to reload 30-06 as close to M2 as possible to be fired out of M1 Garand and a 1917. My M1 has a tendency to dent the necks in and varies from very slight to almost enough to make the brass fold. Which dies should I use (not talking size but make)? Should I find a crimp die? Will a standard die fix the neck or do I need to look at doing something different or possibly chucking those pieces? What powder and primers should I be looking for? How much powder would I need to get near M2 performance, don't want to damage the op rod or mess with the timing of the M1. Thank you for your input. 1) Die make does not matter. I actually prefer Lee, but Hornady makes nice dies. 2) If you are trying to duplicate M2 ball then yes. 3) As long as you get it mostly round the die will take care of the rest. 4) CCI Military Large Rifle Primer - IMR4895 - 150-152 grain flat mil-spec bullet 5) It's impossible to damage the op rod with IMR4895. Charge is probably going to be around 48 grains. (see a manual for actual loads) Now I don't know why you want to duplicate M2 ball. It's not terribly accurate. I normally shoot Match bullets in my M1. Any powder slower than 4064 is safe in the M1. Remember, the M1 was NOT designed for M2 ball, M2 ball came later. It was designed for the 172 grain M1 ball load. The classic match load was the 168 grain Matchking over 46.0 grains of IMR4064. |
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Quoted:
You could go a bit slower then 4064, like say varget, but that's about it without an adjustable gas plug. if you only wish to replicate M2 ball, you need a chrono and load so the 150ish grs bullets are going about 2750 or so at the muzzle. That will put you in the ball park. Should be about 27-27.5 grs of 4064 (depending on case/primer/bullet, ect) and maybe 46 to 46.5 of 4895. That should put you near M2 ball specs. I don't crimp and have shot 1000's of reloads out of my garands. I have also found that my garands seem to like the 155 noslers going about 50 FPS back of M2 ball specs for accuracy. My most recient testing found that my garand grouped 168's better then 155's and both bullets like to be going slightly slower then M2 ball specs. Start low and see what your rifle likes and keep the load in the mid range of loadings and you'll be fine. Actually, there isn't much of a reason to load M2 ball spec ammo right now as the CMP prices on surplus are right around what I could load for buying brass. No sence in reloading ammo when you could just buy it and save the empties unless you know of somewhere they are selling bullets and powder for cheaper then I can find. Stick with CCI military primers for now. They seem to work well in the garand. Make sure they are seated below flush. I have over 1k HXP brass that is polished, almost all of it has been shot in the M1. I was looking at the Hornady reloading guide but didn't see a section for loading for the M1. My two concerns was getting a load that would be too hot for the rifle and insuring that I got the right dies so that the bullet doesn't get shoved back into the case on loading. I was looking at the M2 load just because I know it is safe enough and functions. I may branch out to 168 grains but there is a good deal on 150 grain projectiles from RMRbullets. |
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How do I know I am getting a full length die?
Will the crimp in the seating die be enough or do I need to do something different? Thinking about getting a Hornady single stage because of the lock and load feature unless there is a better value? I will eventually get a Dillon 650, maybe two one for large primer and one for small. |
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Everybody has their preferences, I look at the Loc-and-load as a gimmick.
Check out the Lee Turret press. With the turret you use it like a single stage but all your dies are set to go. If you want real simplicity buy extra turrets and keep all your dies set and ready to go. After you understand what each die is doing setting them up isn't a big deal so I don't bother with extra plates myself. Plenty of other turret presses out there that are fine but the Lee is quite a bit cheaper. It is not built like a Lyman or RCBS but it is pretty solid. I wouldn't give you 10cents for lots of the Lee stuff (hate their plastic fantastic progressive and scale ) but the turret press and their dies are both a great value |
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This article has been linked to many times, but it's worth repeating. I'm assuming since you haven't started reloading yet, you may have missed it.
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Quoted:
How do I know I am getting a full length die? Buy a standard die set. It will say FL (full length). Will the crimp in the seating die be enough or do I need to do something different? I would crimp in a separate die if I was to crimp. Lee FCD (factory crimp die) Thinking about getting a Hornady single stage because of the lock and load feature unless there is a better value? I will eventually get a Dillon 650, maybe two one for large primer and one for small. If you get the LNL, you will have to buy adaptors for all of your dies. $$$ Not worth it to me. Doesn't take much time to screw a die in and out. 
The LNL system on a powder measure makes sense to me. On a press, not so much. |
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