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Posted: 3/6/2015 5:55:00 PM EDT
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My wife purchased a Kimber Micro CDP with Crimson Trace grips for a new carry gun. I have never loaded for the 380, so I had to start from scratch.
New dies (lee 4 die set), 100gr Hornady FMJ, Lee 102gr RN Mould and once fired brass. Thankfully I have several pistol/shotgun powders on hand, so I didn't need to go shopping and spend time looking at all the empty shelves. Ok, here goes, sorry, this may get a little long. She is a pansy when it comes to recoil, so I needed to build these loads as soft shooting as possible yet still be totally reliable. My first choice of powder was 231. It can be loaded soft and it can be loaded strong. Plus I have lots. What I found was it didn't meter out of my Harrell's Precision very well. 2.7gr was all over the board, from 1.9 to 2.7. Can't have that can we. Anyhow, I managed to load a few weighing each charge so I could test them for function and accuracy. This is fired from 15 yards rested on a bag on the tailgate of my truck. I like it, soft shooting and plenty accurate. Not being able to meter puts it into the "no-Go" file however. 
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As I need a powder that will meter these tiny charges well, I looked to Accurate #2.
I Started at 2.9gr as per Accurate Data. Metered perfectly and was also plenty accurate The problem was that it was not soft shooting. It was stout and snappy. I loved it, but I know my wife would hate it. I did some research and found data for the 100gr FMJ as low as 2.5gr. I made a few of those and was still unhappy with the recoil. I cast a bunch of 102gr Lee RN bullets and coated them with HI-TEK. I loased them with 2.6gr Accurate #2 and headed for the range, again. Accurate, but not soft enough. 
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I sat at my bench trying to figure out how I can get 231 to meter accurately at 2.7gr.
I needed something more accurate and consistent than just tapping the measure or slamming the handle. Then it hit me, I need some kind of vibrator. What better place to find a vibrator then the local adult toy store. So, put on my disguise and off I went in search of the perfect vibrator. Low and behold, they had just what the Doctor ordered. I purchased the little vibrator (paid cash) and headed back to the reloading bench. Strapped that baby on, filled the hopper with 231,set the charge for 2.7gr turned it on and presto, perfect charge every time. 
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Quoted:
I sat at my bench trying to figure out how I can get 231 to meter accurately at 2.7gr. I needed something more accurate and consistent than just tapping the measure or slamming the handle. Then it hit me, I need some king of vibrator. What better place to find a vibrator then the local adult toy store. So, put on my disguise and off I went in search of the perfect vibrator. Low and behold, they had just what the Doctor ordered. I purchased the little vibrator (paid cash) and headed back to the reloading bench. Strapped that baby on, filled the hopper with 231,set the charge for 2.7gr turned it on and presto, perfect charge every time. http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y17/steve4102/IMG_1081_zpsrnzlo05v.jpg OMG.  I would never admit to something like that. Good write up on the other stuff though 
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Steve if you want to try a small sample of the RD 95grain bullets I can send you a handful for free.
WFN= Much better for tissue damage vs a RN and they supposedly penetrate well. I used to call these my 380 sledgehammers before I gave up on using 380 as a defensive pistol. The mold is available from Lee's catalog now. I got rid of mine since I don't reload for 380 anymore. 
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Quoted:
Steve if you want to try a small sample of the RD 95grain bullets I can send you a handful for free. <a href="http://s258.photobucket.com/user/Ole1830/media/IMG_5384.jpg.html" target="_blank">http://i258.photobucket.com/albums/hh280/Ole1830/IMG_5384.jpg</a> WFN= Much better for tissue damage vs a RN and they supposedly penetrate well. I used to call these my 380 sledgehammers before I gave up on using 380 as a defensive pistol. The mold is available from Lee's catalog now. I got rid of mine since I don't reload for 380 anymore.
What mould is that? http://leeprecision.com/bullet-casting/hand-gun-bullet-molds/bullet-mold-double-cavity/ |
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Your vibrator solution is "elegant." Mine is a more "personal massager" type device that's harder to connect to the powder measure. I may have to go visit an adult store to get one of those little guys. 231 is a "ball" powder, but in such small powder loads, it's hard to get consistent powder flow through rotary powder measures. Your Harrels powder measure should be VERY precise - except that powder loads for the .380 are so small that it's hard for any measure to be consistent unless you make sure the powder flows smoothly, AND take your time with each powder throw.
A lot of people who load for .380 have found that, depending on what gun you're loading for you may have to load a bit heavier than you might like. A Kimber may require plenty of break in (that's typical with Kimber's pistols), but then it should like nice mild rounds just fine. It looks like the Glock 42 is similar in this regard. I have a Taurus (and may get a G42) and expect to be putting together a lot of trigger-time (plinking) rounds in the near future, so I appreciate your sharing your experience. One thing to pay attention to is that some brands of brass are not consistent with other brands. I've heard of people having issues with S&B brass, for example, because the cases seem to be a bit thicker, but this may actually be a matter of just making sure you un-bell the cases correctly. The Lee FCD is highly recommended for the .380. Good luck. I hope to hear more of your experience with this caliber and your wife's Kimber. |
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Quoted:
What mould is that? http://leeprecision.com/bullet-casting/hand-gun-bullet-molds/bullet-mold-double-cavity/ Quoted:
Quoted:
Steve if you want to try a small sample of the RD 95grain bullets I can send you a handful for free. <a href="http://s258.photobucket.com/user/Ole1830/media/IMG_5384.jpg.html" target="_blank">http://i258.photobucket.com/albums/hh280/Ole1830/IMG_5384.jpg</a> WFN= Much better for tissue damage vs a RN and they supposedly penetrate well. I used to call these my 380 sledgehammers before I gave up on using 380 as a defensive pistol. The mold is available from Lee's catalog now. I got rid of mine since I don't reload for 380 anymore.
What mould is that? http://leeprecision.com/bullet-casting/hand-gun-bullet-molds/bullet-mold-double-cavity/ I had a six banger, but Midway has a two banger. EDIT: They also have the six banger |
No problem. 
If you end up getting it, you can find reloading data for that bullet for both 380 and 9mm at Ranch Dog's website |
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Quoted:
No problem.
If you end up getting it, you can find reloading data for that bullet for both 380 and 9mm at Ranch Dog's website So far I gave only tested FMJ RN and LRN. Curious if flat nose will feed in the Kimber. It's warm and sunny here today (25*). Talked my wife into going shooting in a few. I'll let ya know how she does. |
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Took my wife shooting today.
The load was 2.7gr 231 with 100gr Hornady FMJ bulk from Midway. 12 yards. She was concerned about the recoil before she fired the first round, but after the first mag that was a non-issue. This load is amazingly soft shooting yet still cycles the action just fine. The first few mags she was stabbing the muzzle down just before she pulled the trigger. She got that worked out and things started to improve. I had a box of Factory Magtech 95gr FMJ for her to compare to the 231 handloads. The Magtech had much more recoil, but not enough to scare her off. To me that is a Green light to load this thing up to normal velocities and pressure and forego the wimpy stuff. Next, is a range trip with Accurate #2 and home grown 102gr Cast coated bullets. I'm not even going to tell her the load is different. Yes, there is room in my dog-house for two. 
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Quoted: The term is "agitator".... I've always had great luck with Bullseye for .380 ACP. 3.0 grains with 95 grain bullet. Quoted: Quoted: Nice thread, a vibrator is a common solution to this problem. The term is "agitator".... I've always had great luck with Bullseye for .380 ACP. 3.0 grains with 95 grain bullet. Point taken. It might help with avoiding the immature posts. |
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I've had good luck using CFE pistol powder for 380s. 95g lead bullets and a smallish charge of CFEP works great in my TCP but larger heavier guns may need a little bit bigger charge. I would like to give that a try, if I can find any. I would also love to get my hands on some Ramshot ZIP. Seems like the perfect powder for the 380. |
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Quoted:
OMG. I would never admit to something like that. Good write up on the other stuff though Quoted:
Quoted:
I sat at my bench trying to figure out how I can get 231 to meter accurately at 2.7gr. I needed something more accurate and consistent than just tapping the measure or slamming the handle. Then it hit me, I need some king of vibrator. What better place to find a vibrator then the local adult toy store. So, put on my disguise and off I went in search of the perfect vibrator. Low and behold, they had just what the Doctor ordered. I purchased the little vibrator (paid cash) and headed back to the reloading bench. Strapped that baby on, filled the hopper with 231,set the charge for 2.7gr turned it on and presto, perfect charge every time. http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y17/steve4102/IMG_1081_zpsrnzlo05v.jpg OMG. I would never admit to something like that. Good write up on the other stuff though I just use a cheap electric toothbrush and rubber band it to the hopper (along with my used dryer sheet)...... 
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Quoted:
Lets not get sidetracked, this thread started so well. There is actually an industrial term for using vibration to get a substance to flow correctly - I'm not an engineering guy, but maybe one will chime in. Given how cheap the technology is, I am surprised that the makers of powder measures haven't offered this as an upgrade or feature. |
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I loaded up a few different powders today and ran the loads over my Chrony.
Kimber 2.75 inch barrel. I used two different bullets, 100gr Hornady RN and Home cast Lee 102gr RN coated with HI-TEK. 231 2.7gr Jacketed High = 719 Low = 676 Avg = 704 231 3.2gr Jacketed High = 843 Low = 810 Avg = 831 Lead High = 905 Low = 867 Avg = 890 2.7gr very soft shooting, 3.2gr was also quit soft shooting with both lead and jacketed. True Blue 3.7gr Jacketed High = 785 Low = 753 Avg = 774 Lead High = 836 Low = 800 Avg = 821 Surprisingly soft shooting True Blue 4.1gr Jacketed High = 854 Low = 822 Avg = 839 Lead High = 897 Low = 875 Avg = 887 This was also quite soft shooting Silhouette 3.7gr Jacketed High = 805 Low = 713 Avg = 750 Lead High = 836 Low = 781 Avg = 817 Rather stout and brass ejected back towards me and slightly right. Silhouette 4.1gr Jacketed High = 862 Low = 759 Avg = 816 Lead High = 943 Low = 892 Avg = 924 Stout, large spread. Accurate #2 3.0gr Jacketed High = 869 Low = 859 Avg = 862 Lead High = 908 Low = 896 Avg = 900 Rather stout, not as bad as Silhouette,but stronger than True Blue. Spread was very small. |
| I had bought a pound of 231 specifically to load .380, but I have been doing some research and it looks like Power Pistol and True Blue are also great choices. Nosler lists loads for their .355" 115gr JHP bullet with HP-38 (identical to 231), Power Pistol, True Blue, Unique and a couple of IMR numbers. Power Pistol had an 85% case fill with their max load of 3.2 grains. I think with a case as small as the .380, a bulkier fill is a good thing. |
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Posting to vent...
I'm still fiddling with my .380 test load plans. In two current manuals I compared, with a 95gr FMJ bullet and W 231 (the powder I plan to use), the max load in one manual was the STARTING load in the other. There IS a difference in COAL between the two manuals...it's 0.010". I feel like that's sort of saying "you're on your own with this." I'm looking at using W231, 95gr FMJs and starting with 2.3gr, working up to 3.1gr. I don't need zippy rounds, in fact I want to stay between 850-900 FPS, but since there aren't a lot of manuals that give actual instrumental velocities for specific loads, I'm sort of working in the dark. I guess I'll be seeing what velocities I get with my test loads and go with what's most accurate out of my pistol, but if they could at least throw me a frickin' bone I'd be a lot more comfortable on this... Yeah, it ain't as bad as I had thought at first. My handwritten notes were, to say the least, "crappy" and "not very readable." The difference between Lyman's COAL and Hodgdon's is 0.07", not 0.01" (0.900" vs 0.970" respectively). That's quite a bit with this size case. I'm going with Hodgdon's starting load of 2.9 gr of W 231, working up to their max of 3.2 gr. So anyway, it continues to look like the biggest challenge with loading .380 ACP is getting an authoritative reference to base powder choice and loads on.  I still think this is true, but it ain't as bad as I has said. My bad.
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I saw this thread and just want to ask if anyone has had any trouble reloading "Blazer" or "Speer" .380 brass ?????
I have loaded .380 brass in the past when I had a Russian 380 Makorov , and have never had any problems ,untill I bought my daughter a LCP .380 and started loading this round again . when trying to flare the mouth of the case on the above brass its put a ring in the case about 1/4inch from the mouth of the brass , it doesnt matter if its nickle plated or brass it does it to all of them .. I have resized this brass and tryed to flare it again and it still does the same thing , anyone else here having the same problem with this brass while reloading ?? when I loaded for the Makorov I had I never had this problem at all , so I'm thinking its the brass itself thats causing this problem .. LMK if anyone else is having this same problem ... Ken 
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RCBS carbide dies , its the only dies I use .. the flare on the brass is just enough for the bullet to start in, just as I have always done , been loading since 1970 when I got out of the ARMY , never had this problem before , its a new one on me , I was looking at some of the brass again last night , a couple of pieces have Federal HS , out of 600 this happened to 53 pieces of brass
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What brand of dies? It would help if we had a clear pic. Sounds like expander die is miss adjusted. |
| I use RCBS as well. I just finished loading a couple of hundred .380 for a friend. Berry jacketed (95 gr?) over 3.2 gr of American Select. Once I got the COAL adjusted, they fired out of a Sig 238 flawlessly. I have no input on the recoil. VERY accurate. The round is a pain for me to get right. |
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I find .380 to be a somewhat challenging little round to load. In my LCP, I had a lot of jamming issues, particularly if the ammo burn was not so complete. Which lead me to a conundrum. If I loaded something like Bullseye, the small high P charges burned fairly complete and made good ammo. But small charges like that have the 2-fold safety concerns of small charge variations being large percentage (and pressure) variations; and the elevated risk of a double charge not being visibly obvious. I have a no-go policy: I won't use a powder that I can triple charge, because it's too easy to not even visually notice a double charge.
So I switched to HS6 I liked HS6, because it was bulky, and a double charge would overspill. However, it did not burn very completely, and sprayed unburned powder everywhere (including the chamber), and my jamming issues seemed to be worst with this. So I've switched back to HP38 (same as 231). A 3.0 gr charge of HP38 under a 100 gr bullet tended to give good velocity, and burned clean enough that it wasn't spraying powder around. Unfortunately, you can double charge a 3.0 gr charge of HP38. Which is spooky to me. Back to difficulties. I use a Hornady LNL AP press for most of my pistol ammo. I haven't had problems at all getting consistent 3.0 gr throws from the dispenser. No marital aids necessary. So that part is good. But, the .380 casing is difficult little thing. The walls are very thin, and sometimes it takes a little pause and effort on the sizing die to make sure it's going in right, or the case will collapse faster than you can respond. What's more, if the dies aren't adjusted just right, it's easy to not put enough neck tension, and the bullet wants to just fall into the case. (Hornady dies). So sometimes you have to fiddle with the ram stroke to get things to work right. Which is scary on a progressive, because that's how you get double charges. Sure enough, I had a triple charge on a cycle that had a difficult casing on the sizing portion. And I saw the powder spilling everywhere. That'll give you the heebies. So out comes the kinetic puller, and about 20 of the preceding rounds got pulled. Didn't find anything else there. I had a couple more double charges try to sneak by later on, but was on to their evil game, and was watching. These charges are so small, and I'm using mixed brass, so the only way to quality check for double charges is to pull the bullets. And I ended up pulling a lot as quality checks. Never did find a loaded double charge, but it sort of spooks you. So I have 800 rounds of ammo that I'm "pretty confident" doesn't have a double charge hiding in there. Fortunately, failure mode of a .380 with an overcharge isn't that devastating to the shooter, so it's not keeping me up at night. And I know this from multiple on-line video's and reports on the topic; which is a little scary to see more than one report of an LCP blowing up on FACTORY ammo even. Mostly with Remington ammo.. whiiiich just happens to be the same Remington ammo I bought as my defensive load... sigh. |
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