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Posted: 12/1/2009 3:19:09 AM EDT
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I'm going to be picking up a suppressor for my 16" AR, and I'd like to load some subsonic ammo so that I can shoot without hearing protection. Anyone have recipes/instructions for loading safe subsonic .223?
I don't care if it doesn't cycle the action, I'm ok with working the charging handle. |
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Consider the motive for subsonic. Seems to me that the main reason for subsonic is so the projectile does not break the sound barrier.
That way some one whom the projectile passes by does not hear it. Otherwise the discharge of gasses from the rifle will produce some amount of noise. More if not suppressed. |
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Quoted: I going to load up some sub loads using Tite Group just to see how load they are and if it's still to load to shoot around neighbors or not. Titegroup will work, but not as well as Trailboss. Trailboss is less dense, or lighter per "unit of size", which means it fills up the case more, WAY more. Which is desirable because, correct me if I'm wrong, you will get more consistant detonation and burning of the powder. The risk with not filling up the case very much (like with Titegroup) is that the flame jet from the primer may or may not contact much of the powder, causing a possible "squib" or very unreliable muzzle velocities. Plus, Trailboss is pretty cheap and it seems like it's easier to find than Titegroup, which I use for a bunch of my handgun loads. FWIW, I loaded up 50 rounds with Trailboss to print targets with to make sure I'm not keyholing before I mount the can and they are shooting nicely so far. All holes appear to be nice little round ones with no tumbling out of my 10.5" LMT. If I remember right, muzzle velocities are ranging from 850 - 950 fps. They do NOT cycle the bolt, which is fine, cause the point is to keep it quiet, eh. I don't have the can in my hands yet, so I haven't tried them suppressed yet. With my normal hearing protection on they definitely sound quieter than normal .223/5.56 ammo. I think the more you search/look, you'll find, like I did, that people who do it/have done it prefer Trailboss. Hodgdon lists .223 loads for both Titegroup and Trailboss. They don't list a max load just one charge weight. The concensus seems to be that because these are such fast burning powders, any increase in charge weight would lead to an EXTREME rise in chamber pressure, so much so that you can't increase the charge without risking a KABOOM. cheers, Benji |
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I wonder how Bluedot would work ? Without a suppressor it sounds like a 22 mag in a 223. not enough case capacity You'd need less than 10 grains of Bluedot. It'll fit. 10 grains and a 110gr bullet will get you 1300fps in a 30-06. I use Bluedot now in .223 and 30 grain vmax with great results. My load is 11.5 grains but you can shoot up to 14 max . It won't cycle the action I tried it but you said that wasn;'t important. |
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Quoted:
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I wonder how Bluedot would work ? Without a suppressor it sounds like a 22 mag in a 223. not enough case capacity Uh, I run bluedot.... 3.7-4.6 depending on projectile weight. Try 3.8-4.2 with a 55gr bullet. And you should have more than enough capacity 
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you can run blue dot but I said it backwards. It doesnt fill the case up enough to have consitent, reliable results. The big plus of Trail boss is you fill the case up really well with powder. +1 If you do try reduced loads without using trail boss, charge a case, then seat the bullet so there's no way you can accidentally double charge one. |
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Can Sub loads be fired from a non suppresed weapon, and how much quiter would the round be unsuppresed out of a 16" carbine? I shoot them all the time through my 6940. It is so quiet even without a suppressor it is scary. Shot a couple hundred one day at targets at 100 yards and they were stable. Also hit steel targets at 200 but there was quite a bit of drop. |
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Quoted:
Quoted:
I going to load up some sub loads using Tite Group just to see how load they are and if it's still to load to shoot around neighbors or not. Titegroup will work, but not as well as Trailboss. Trailboss is less dense, or lighter per "unit of size", which means it fills up the case more, WAY more. Which is desirable because, correct me if I'm wrong, you will get more consistant detonation and burning of the powder. The risk with not filling up the case very much (like with Titegroup) is that the flame jet from the primer may or may not contact much of the powder, causing a possible "squib" or very unreliable muzzle velocities. Plus, Trailboss is pretty cheap and it seems like it's easier to find than Titegroup, which I use for a bunch of my handgun loads. FWIW, I loaded up 50 rounds with Trailboss to print targets with to make sure I'm not keyholing before I mount the can and they are shooting nicely so far. All holes appear to be nice little round ones with no tumbling out of my 10.5" LMT. If I remember right, muzzle velocities are ranging from 850 - 950 fps. They do NOT cycle the bolt, which is fine, cause the point is to keep it quiet, eh. I don't have the can in my hands yet, so I haven't tried them suppressed yet. With my normal hearing protection on they definitely sound quieter than normal .223/5.56 ammo. I think the more you search/look, you'll find, like I did, that people who do it/have done it prefer Trailboss. Hodgdon lists .223 loads for both Titegroup and Trailboss. They don't list a max load just one charge weight. The concensus seems to be that because these are such fast burning powders, any increase in charge weight would lead to an EXTREME rise in chamber pressure, so much so that you can't increase the charge without risking a KABOOM. cheers, Benji The load can be increased as with the recommended load you are around 4,000 psi and the AR-15 operates at around 50,000 so there is a lot of room to work there. It calls for 3.1 of Clays or titegroup but I have run it past 5 grains with no problems. Just stay with a powder around the same burn rate and stay above 1,000 fps and you should be fine. I use IMR700X the most for the subsonic loads both in 223 and 308. |
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