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Posted: 5/24/2025 5:26:19 PM EDT
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Asked this in a Facebook group and got a general idea that my supposition was correct, but maybe guys here might have additional info. Why do some carbine barrels have a smooth outer finish, and others have "rings" or "grooves" around most of the length of the barrel? My 9-43 Underwood has a smooth barrel, but the IBM which belonged to my Grandpa has the "grooves". Was this just a matter of a machining step that was eliminated in later production carbines to save time/money? You can see a picture of the two barrel types I'm talking about here: http://www.uscarbinecal30.com/barrels.html (scroll down to "Barrel Machining Finishes") The sentence in bold was my supposition, and a poster on FB agreed that that was the reason for the difference. Is this topic covered in War Baby anywhere that I can look at? Were certain manufacturers more known for leaving the "rings" and not machining the barrel smooth, or was this something that was done by everyone past a certain date to speed production? |
There's a prize at the bottom of every box of .22LR. It's called happiness. Keep shooting!
| Depends on how fast they have the lathe cutter advance set. A slow advance, no ''rings,'' a fast advance, ''rings.'' |
Liberals are a curious mix of communism and fascism, they want to destroy you but want to use your own money to do it.
I'm getting down to the last box, the others have all been destroyed...
I'm getting down to the last box, the others have all been destroyed...
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I've seen some of the Winchester marks....they're well known as having the worst QC of all M1 rifles, despite being an actual gun manufacturer. I'm mainly trying to figure out if this change in barrel machining was done across the board at a certain point (as in an order was issued, "from X point forward, skip this machining step) or if some barrel manufacturers are more known for this than others. |
There's a prize at the bottom of every box of .22LR. It's called happiness. Keep shooting!
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Originally Posted By Grendel_J: I've seen some of the Winchester marks....they're well known as having the worst QC of all M1 rifles, despite being an actual gun manufacturer. I'm mainly trying to figure out if this change in barrel machining was done across the board at a certain point (as in an order was issued, "from X point forward, skip this machining step) or if some barrel manufacturers are more known for this than others. IMO they went from grinding down the barrel the same reasons they went to the round bolt. It saved time and money and didn't affect the operation of the carbine |
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Originally Posted By vellnueve: Expediency. This was wartime Go look at how shitty the finish machining is on Winchester receivers. Ha, I have an M1 garand that missed two machine cuts on the receiver. cosmetic behind the op rod trac under the windage knob area. It replaced the CMP Winchester that had a barrel brazed in place most likely because the receiver was short. Winchester probably put a barrel with the tenon left a bit long to draw tight to get it out the door. Years later a Greek military armorer brazed a replacement barrel on to get it to function. I highly doubt that would have been done in any US arsenal or depot. This was definitely a Greek return rifle. It shot like shit and I looked deeper and noticed a thin wick of brazing between barrel and receiver face. CMP built me a Winchester to replace it. That one shoots. As much as I like Winchester, they were mercenary Fucks on their military contracts. Lots of poor finishing and short cuts. Even with a war on Springfields were held to better QC. I think my winchester carbine has a winchester ringed/unground barrel and my Inland is ground smooth. Some of the replacement barrels on the M1903s are unground too. I think my Springfield M1903 has a “ringed” High Standard replacement barrel. |
The only hyphenated names I like are cartridge names......30-06, 30-40, 38-55 etc.
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Originally Posted By fxntime: Depends on how fast they have the lathe cutter advance set. A slow advance, no ''rings,'' a fast advance, ''rings.'' Or use a narrower radius on the cutting tool. |
The only hyphenated names I like are cartridge names......30-06, 30-40, 38-55 etc.
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I don't think I have ever seen a very smooth USGI barrel. They all have exhibited some degree of grooving, and while not stating they were done that way on purpose, I think it has prevented a lot of people from obscuring import marks. The only smooth barrels I have seen were not necessarily modern production, but definitely aftermarket/commercial variants. |
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Hmmm. Several folks confusing milling marks and grooves with “quality” or lack of QC. One has nothing to do with the other. Winchester gave the Ord Dept what they asked for and nothing more. They were paid by the piece and each piece met the requested standard. Yes, Winchester weapons were let’s say,.. less refined than SA but if it mattered to the Ord Dept they could have requested and compensated for a better finished part. Same with stamped vs milled parts; one is not really better than the other if used in the right spot. |
“You either know and understand history or you trust the government. You can’t do both”
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Originally Posted By H53EXPERT: I don't think I have ever seen a very smooth USGI barrel. They all have exhibited some degree of grooving, and while not stating they were done that way on purpose, I think it has prevented a lot of people from obscuring import marks. The only smooth barrels I have seen were not necessarily modern production, but definitely aftermarket/commercial variants. On another note, the IBM I mention above is a bit of a "mutt" or transitional gun. Flat bolt, push button safety, adjustable rear sight, unturned/ringed finish barrel, and a Type I barrel band. Strange combination of features, but neat as it shows the evolution of some of the changes made to the carbine during production. Attached File Attached File |
There's a prize at the bottom of every box of .22LR. It's called happiness. Keep shooting!
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Originally Posted By Grendel_J: I remember passing on a Rock-Ola for sale once that had the "unturned" barrel........because of the huge, deep BLUE SKY import mark. On another note, the IBM I mention above is a bit of a "mutt" or transitional gun. Flat bolt, push button safety, adjustable rear sight, unturned/ringed finish barrel, and a Type I barrel band. Strange combination of features, but neat as it shows the evolution of some of the changes made to the carbine during production. https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/74992/IMG_20220409_100647_jpg-3554504.JPG https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/74992/IMG_20220409_100658_jpg-3554505.JPG What happened to ole Sargeant Hulka there? 
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I have answered the demand with a cannon shot, and our flag still waves proudly from the walls - I shall never surrender or retreat.
- W B Travis
Timeos Seres et dona ferrentes
- W B Travis
Timeos Seres et dona ferrentes
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