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Posted: 1/31/2009 8:36:41 AM EDT
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In your opinion, is $15k invested into a good condition Colt M16 going to be a worthwhile investment, especially if you intend on shooting it 500-1000rds per year?
I've watched my stock investments and IRA fall to 1/2 their value 6 months ago (who hasn't, right?) and I've saved some cash for investment purposes. It's enough to buy a quality Colt M16 and to me a machine gun would be a lot more fun to own than 250 shares of Google. I've got the cash, got a good safe, live in a great state, and honestly believe that my $15k today would be worth a lot more in the years to come. The only bad part is I'd want to throw my 6920 upper on it and shoot it! Obviously this isn't a retirement option or replacing my IRA, but given the current status of the economy and the future outlook on guns, surely it'd be worth it. Although I do know in the back of my head unless I was just up against a wall, I doubt I'd ever even sell the thing for profit! I'm interested in your comments. Thank you. |
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There is no such thing as a safe investment, as the stock market shows. In addition, with NFA there is always the chance that a stroke of a pen could make them all illegal and worth zero $$$, although I personally believe that is a very remote possibility: There are so many easier targets, like black rifles, handguns, etc. I believe registered MGs will be the last to go, because they are not used in crimes.
That said, my M16 has brought me more joy than any other material possession –– meeting great people at MG shoots; letting newbies shoot an MG for the first time, and seeing that "full-auto grin'; and the satisfaction that comes from owning something that antigunners desperately wish I could not. The experiences and memories are priceless, and if my MGs' value went to zero tomorrow, it would still have been worth it. Machine guns are about as practical as jetskis and snowmobiles –– in almost all cases, they are toys. Like boats or motorcycles, too. The difference is that historically, machine guns have gone up in value, while the other toys depreciate quickly and deeply. I personally believe they will continue to do so, but I would not base a purchase decision on that belief. Who knows, if everything melts down, we'll all be growing veggies in the front yard to feed out families, and in that case you prolly woulda been better off buying a home with a bigger garden. Buy an MG because you'l enjoy owning and shooting it, not as an investment. 
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I've got the cash, got a good safe, live in a great state, and honestly believe that my $15k today would be worth a lot more in the years to come. It sounds like you answered your own question. I have no regrets - a 16 is as much fun as you can have with your clothes on.......well, maybe more at my age. If you can afford to lose the money go for it. Realize that the same goes for any other investment........including US dollars. Sam |
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15K sounds a little high even for a Colt RR M16. I would look around a little. If you have cash in hand you can probably find one for 12K or even a little less. Don't jump at the first one you see and don't buy one that's advertised as new or like new. Your going to shoot it anyway, get one that's used but well cared for. For 15K you may be able to find a nice package deal with a few uppers including a .22 cal one. You will probably not see most MG's go up in value until the economy starts to get better and they may go down a bit as people unload items they have had for year that they can't eat or sleep under.
YMMV Ken |
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I used 15k as sort of a arbitrary number. I have seen a few A1's and A2's online but can't seem to find difference to justify the higher price of the A2's. If I plan to slap a new upper on it anyway should I even be considering A2's? Also, how can I tell if an M16 has the large hole front takedown and my regular uppers won't fit?
Where are some websites to be looking? Also, I haven't totally wrote off buying a RDIAS, but I can't find ANY online for sale to compare prices. Where are they hiding? Thanks |
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That said, my M16 has brought me more joy than any other material possession –– meeting great people at MG shoots; letting newbies shoot an MG for the first time, and seeing that "full-auto grin'; and the satisfaction that comes from owning something that antigunners desperately wish I could not. The experiences and memories are priceless, and if my MGs' value went to zero tomorrow, it would still have been worth it. not as an investment. I usually shoot on my own property; but recently I was at my fathers shop making a couple spare flappers for my DIAS so I went to the public range nearby. When I packed up to leave a gent flagged me down, which happens just about every time I go to a public range, and asked me about my rifles. We chatted awhile and I said "I have two loaded magazines left, that's one for you and one for your boy". He anxiously accepted the offer. 6 magazines later there was that "full-auto grin" as he watched his 10 year old son hose down everything but the target. He then said "I'm 52 years old and this is the first time I've ever shot a machine gun, my son is ten and he owes you big time". |
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That said, my M16 has brought me more joy than any other material possession –– meeting great people at MG shoots; letting newbies shoot an MG for the first time, and seeing that "full-auto grin'; and the satisfaction that comes from owning something that antigunners desperately wish I could not. The experiences and memories are priceless, and if my MGs' value went to zero tomorrow, it would still have been worth it. not as an investment. I usually shoot on my own property; but recently I was at my fathers shop making a couple spare flappers for my DIAS so I went to the public range nearby. When I packed up to leave a gent flagged me down, which happens just about every time I go to a public range, and asked me about my rifles. We chatted awhile and I said "I have two loaded magazines left, that's one for you and one for your boy". He anxiously accepted the offer. 6 magazines later there was that "full-auto grin" as he watched his 10 year old son hose down everything but the target. He then said "I'm 52 years old and this is the first time I've ever shot a machine gun, my son is ten and he owes you big time". That's why I still have faith in this country. You don't hear about hippies saying shit like that. Good job!!!! I'd share my MG's if I ever went to a public range, but I've got some land, so don't usually take them out near the public. 
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My M16 is the best "investment" I've ever made, for all the reasons others mentioned. I've let several people shoot it and each time I enjoyed the experience every bit as much as they did. I love the reaction when people think a civilian owning a machine gun is illegal and then they find out the truth. It is so much fun I'm seriously considering buying an MP5 and an FN FNC to add to my collection.
As for switching out the upper, my opinion is that is a good idea. I have a Colt heavy barrel upper from a new AR15 on the M16 lower now so I can shoot more without worrying about the barrel melting and to save wear and tear on the original bolt/carrier/barrel etc. I'm planning to swap that upper out soon with a gas-piston upper for better reliability. Bottom line, buy without a view toward investment objectives and you will be thrilled. |
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Quoted:
There is no such thing as a safe investment, as the stock market shows. In addition, with NFA there is always the chance that a stroke of a pen could make them all illegal and worth zero $$$, although I personally believe that is a very remote possibility: There are so many easier targets, like black rifles, handguns, etc. I believe registered MGs will be the last to go, because they are not used in crimes. That said, my M16 has brought me more joy than any other material possession –– meeting great people at MG shoots; letting newbies shoot an MG for the first time, and seeing that "full-auto grin'; and the satisfaction that comes from owning something that antigunners desperately wish I could not. The experiences and memories are priceless, and if my MGs' value went to zero tomorrow, it would still have been worth it. Machine guns are about as practical as jetskis and snowmobiles –– in almost all cases, they are toys. Like boats or motorcycles, too. The difference is that historically, machine guns have gone up in value, while the other toys depreciate quickly and deeply. I personally believe they will continue to do so, but I would not base a purchase decision on that belief. Who knows, if everything melts down, we'll all be growing veggies in the front yard to feed out families, and in that case you prolly woulda been better off buying a home with a bigger garden. Buy an MG because you'l enjoy owning and shooting it, not as an investment. well said, TonyK (again) The only part I may have a difference of opinion is "the stroke of a pen making them worthless as an investment being a remote possibility" I almost expect some dumbassed politicians to make the transfer of NFA items illegal. If so, everyone who owns them, can keep them, they just couldn't sell them. This uncertainty is what holds me back on more C3 stuff. The political climate is just way to risky for me right now to drop $10, 20 or $30,000 on a firearm(s) as an investment. If , as TonyK offers, the sheer enjoyment of ownership is worth this amount, go for it. It would be on par with the cost of other high-end hobbies like muscle cars, boats, or bikes.. |
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Personally I look at NFA as a family heirloom. I can't see a reasonable scenario that would have me selling off stuff and the only reason I take the "investment" side is to talk my wife into letting me get them.
Everything I have will be passed down to my kids and that is investment enough for me. |
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I look at investments differently than most - they simply either generate secondary or tertiary income streams so - no, an M16 is like sleeping with metals or buying stock, you're speculating that price will go up. Speculation is a bet, a gamble, a uncertain event, a vector with all it's caveats not an investment.
I bought my M16 for joy without the law interfering anything else is just gravy. |
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Quoted:
The only part I may have a difference of opinion is "the stroke of a pen making them worthless as an investment being a remote possibility" I almost expect some dumbassed politicians to make the transfer of NFA items illegal. If so, everyone who owns them, can keep them, they just couldn't sell them. This uncertainty is what holds me back on more C3 stuff. The political climate is just way to risky for me right now to drop $10, 20 or $30,000 on a firearm(s) as an investment. If , as TonyK offers, the sheer enjoyment of ownership is worth this amount, go for it. It would be on par with the cost of other high-end hobbies like muscle cars, boats, or bikes.. This fear is really common, surprisingly so, but it is the most baseless, unsubstantiated rumor floating around. No lawmaker has ever proposed, let alone drafted legislation that would freeze transfers of MGs. It's a silly idea, even by silly political idea standards, since the act of transferring an MG has no logical, practical or theoretical connection to crime. Possession and manufacture certainly have such a connection, but not simple transference. This idea has never been proposed legislatively because it's so fundamentally devoid of merit as to never have been considered, even in passing. It would also directly violate our most basic property rights. If you cannot sell an item, then you have no legal title to it and it is not your property. By extension, if you cannot sell it, then you cannot own it either. If an item is legal to own and possess, then it must be legal to sell too. Even if drafted and passed, this would not stand up to any court challenge. They cannot and would never try to ban transfers. It's an absolutely irrational fear. Now, MGs as investments is another issue. MG prices have been stagnant for at least a decade. On one hand your 10+ year old investment is not losing money, but it is not appreciating either. Not a very good investment. As Tony said, buy it because you can afford it and because you want it. Don't buy it to make money because it won't do that. You really had to buy in during the 1990s to see any significant increase in value. |
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