Armory Sponsor
[ARCHIVED THREAD] - MASADA Review (Page 1 of 2)
Posted: 9/3/2007 7:58:21 AM EDT
|
FYI, Gary Paul Johnson wrote a review on the MASADA and the P-MAGs in the October issue of SOF. Hope you got your Astro-Glide and Kleenex's before you read it though... 
|
It's a gun rag so the reviews will be glowing I am sure. I do love me some gun Pr0n though |
Holy crap! VB3-you must be Alex Robinson or one of his employees. You're all over any new gun except for the XCR and you live in UT where Robinson is based. You're busted so come clean. |
I think he has some very good points. Why would a company that exists because of customization of guns come out with a gun so uncustomizable? I'm still excited about it and plan to buy one, but seriously; why no interchangeable grips and stock? |
Gun control is a politically dead issue, even if it wasn't there isn't any way that </insert democratic canidate of choice> will be able to get elected and get a favorable congress to pass a gun control bill, then come to an agreement in confrence and sign it within a year. There won't be any new gun control coming between now and 2010 at the earliest. Personally I don't even see that happening. In fact I think odds are good that we'll make some progress getting rid of some restrictions between now and then, especially if 2008 goes well for us in congress. Back on topic, the Masada is definetly an interesting rifle, and I will buy one if and when they are avalible, but the rifle I really really want from Magpul is their PDR. |
I gave what I think the pros are, and what I think the cons are. Whether or not you agree is pretty meaningless. I also live in CO for about 3 months a year, not far from Denver in fact. By your logic that would make me a Magpul employee as well 
|
My logic is way more than where you reside it is what you choose to champion and rail against that is very interesting. I give you shit about it (though much less than some) but I'm seriously asking you straight out: Have you ever or do you currently work for or consult with Robinson? |
Heck, I would take a PDR as well.............
|
|
Why would a company that exists because of customization of guns come out with a gun so uncustomizable? I'm still excited about it and plan to buy one, but seriously; why no interchangeable grips and stock? I agree--the only reason I can think, is that the Masada was built to get rifles into action quick and cheap, aimed at military orders, and it was simpler/cheaper/more appealing to militaries to be less modular? |
No, I don’t work for Robinson. My industry is defense, military and law enforcement logistics and project management which means I see, hear and play a part in lots of stuff behind the scenes including supply chain and natural resource management for bombs, aircraft parts, MRE's, bullets, clothing, fuel, small arms you name it. I keep LEO and soldiers in the fight, and save the tax payers billions. Robinson is not my client, and has no contact with my company, which is global. My location in proximity to Robarm is incidental. It just happens the XCR is good, I like good guns. I think the SIG 556 is shit, and I will call it shit. I think SIG pistols are good, so I buy SIG pistols. I think the Masada is only interesting for now, and I will call it as such until they make the changes I need to consider worth my money. Now, my credentials are out there, since you are a pimp for the 556 and against the AR15 why don’t you tell us who you shill for? Furthermore, I listed both pros and cons of the Masada, so I was hardly "all over" Magpuls efforts. Anyone with a brain would find it strange that a magpul gun cant take magpul parts
Bingo, less parts in the design means faster turn around time on construction and deployment. However, from a consumer standpoint, I dont like this move |
i'm actually in agreement with you; i think our collective future is brighter now then it ever has been. that said, i have to take the past into consideration when people get talking about a weapon system that *may* be available *sometime* in the future... |
+1 on that sentiment...............the AXR is the closest to fruition at the moment, although Magpul says 2008 and FN says 2008. I am in the market for something in 5.56, and while I have been advised to pick up an SLR-106 and a ton of mags, I have quite a few M-16 mags, and want something that utilizes them........and I have 2 AR-15's at the moment. So, It's hedge my bets and get the SLR, or wait for the SCAR, Masada or AXR and hope that we dont get a bunch of buffoons in DC that mess it up for all of us........
|
|
The question is will Magpul be able to produce and sell the Masada on the civilian US market? Something makes me think they're hoping some bigger company will purchase the license and run with it.  I would like to see it come out, but lets face it by the time it does it will have some SERIOUS competition. The XCR will have all its 7.62x39mm conversion long before the Masada starts to even sell its 5.56x45mm base. Plus, you've got the BIG boy the Top Dog the SCAR that is probably uvdergoing the toughest trial and testing period of any firearms in the last couple of decades with SOCOM. The Masada may have some more features than the Masada, but lets face it we'll know the SCAR is rock solid from the get-go. Add to that the fact that the SCAR H will share so many parts in common with the SCAR L its like buying two rifles in one and you've got some tough choices to make with your wallet. 2008 is going to be a year of TOUGH competition, but that works out well for us the consumer.
|
Now that is exactly what I am looking for. Awesome concept. Magpul, take note. I still prefer the SCAR, but your concept would for sure make me consider the Masada |
Very true..........I think I will save my money until then to see exactly what comes out........
|
|
One of the interesting things about the Masada is that it's close to "open source". It shares so many existing parts that Magpul can just make the receivers and bolts (both of which can be outsourced) plus some extra parts and be a long ways towards having everything the need to make a rifle. They're leveraging off the existing AR infrastructure. Because they don't have to make everything from scratch they can scale up pretty quickly. |
This is also why a .308 "-H" variety will be more prohibitive & expensive to produce - no real .308 HW (barrels, bolts, etc) to source. |
From what was reproted from Magpul reps at SHOT and from what has been said here I think the ultimate decision about whether they will even attempt to produce this rifle "in-house" is still up in the air. |
My god, you guys are bitching and whining because the rifle comes with all of the stuff you'd rather add yourself at additional costs?  For the record, there will be alternate stocks for the Masada, or at least there were going to be at one point. (Think PRS.) Regardless, why would you down grade the stock for looks? It looks like a fish huh? That fish sure beats the hell out of a cheesy little uncomfortable wire stock you paid to much for. Seriously, some of the replies in this thread make my head spin. |
Question: What parts of the Masada™ use AR15/M16 stock parts? - Answer: The following AR15/M16 parts are currently used but are subject to change. - Barrel and Barrel Extension - Trigger - Disconnector - Hammer Assembly - Trigger/Hammer Pins - Trigger Spring - Hammer Spring - Disconnector Spring - Front Sight Post - Front Sight Plunger - Front Sight Plunger Spring - Extractor - Extractor Pin - Extractor Spring - Ejector - Ejector Retaining Pin - Ejector Spring The bolt uses an 8-lug-pattern rotating bolt similar to the M16 and AR-180 (7 working lugs due to the extractor) compatible with standard M16/AR15 barrels. |
Thats because looks are more important than function, weight, durability, and reliability. Oh wait, thats right, those things only matter if you plan to seriously USE the weapon as a ...... weapon. If it doesnt LOOK cool, then you cant show it off to your friends and use it as a conversation piece at the range bench. |
Damn right. I've already got plenty of solid, go-to, high performing AR15's. Odds of the Masada replacing any of them? Zero, so it had better appeal to me in other ways. Until my wallet resides in your back pocket, I will determine what is needed to earn my money and I dont like fish stocks and integrated grips. The ability to use an M93B or UBR, and the grip of my choice are features I require. You may not require those things, but likewise, your wallet doesnt reside in my back pocket so do whatever you want with the cash you earned and I will do the same |
I was wondering the same thing..........I like the Masada, and would probably buy one if it gets produced..........of course, there is always the SCAR and AXR to ponder. I hope it gets produced soon, I got money to burn
|
Individuals can build rifles for their personal use but they have to get approval from the ATF prior to building them. |
Some other advantages of the Masada's design over the SCAR are... 1. Entire Masada Bolt, Bolt Carrier and Recoil spring can be removed by pushing one push pin, cracking open the receiver (two parts under 30 seconds). To do the same thing on the SCAR two push pins must be pushed, then the stock slid off, then the trigger pack removed, then finally remove the charging handle (five parts under 2 minutes). Note: The XCR dissambles very easily but all the parts of the bolt carrier dissasemble themselfs once the carrier leaves the reciever. The Masada keeps the Bolt BC and spring as a complete unit until when removed) 2. Optic rail over rifle bore is a good half inch lower on the Masada and the same height above cheekweld as an M16 allowing stock optic mounts to be used. 3. The charging handle in NON reciprocating on the Masada. On the SCAR that knob is moving with the bolt. 4. Base Masada with same barrel length is lighter than the SCAR 5. Masada has ambi bolt release/hold open and the Masada's Ambi magazine release in a true mirror image either side. 6. The Masada was built by an American company with no taxpayers dollars. We have some others but we need to confirm the details. All this said we like the basics of the SCAR way more than the XM8. Just to note the Masada's receiver is steel and 7000 series Aluminum. Polymer is only used on the non stressed items such as the lower trigger housing and handguards. Also on the piston system, the Masada from earlier tests seems to have a much more controllable recoil and muzzle flip than other piston systems (we compared it against the XCR and the HK 416). The Masada is still in its early development but we are sure if needed it can be perfected into a reliability level equal to any foreign made rifle. Both the XM8 and the FN SCAR us the same bolt patttern as the Masada so realiblity should be on par. The Masada has a .308 planned but it will require a new upper reciever and as such will be considered a new rifle. The 308/7.62 NATO version is called internally "the Massoud" for Ahmad Shah Massoud. Osama bin Laden personally ordered his assassination as he was the primary person who could unite the muslims against al-Qaeda and the Taliban in Afganistan. He was killed on September 9th 2001 and his death, unknown to us, green lighted the attack on the US 2 days later. Interesting quote from him here... "We consider this our duty - to defend humanity against the scourge of intolerance, violence, and fanaticism. We will build a democratic Islam in which the rights of all citizens, both men and women, are protected and in which all are free to determine their political leadership by ballots, not bullets. "The international community must support us in our struggle. They must provide aid to both our internal refugees as well as those refugees who have who have fled the brutality of the Taliban and the war by moving to Pakistan and Iran. There is famine and disease. My people are starving and dying. We need your help, and I humbly ask you for it. “Finally, I have words of caution for you. If the West does not help us eliminate al-Qaeda, if they do not help us rid our land of those terrorists who have invaded it, there will be a tragedy, a horror visited on you that is beyond comprehension or endurance. Help us, and in doing that, help yourselves.” |
Sweet...now when are they to come out? I know I know....I'm just impatient. |
Not correct. There is no requirement to get ATF approval to make (not manufacture) a firearm unless it is an NFA firearm. |
I thought you still had to file a form 1 even if it is not NFA. Note: when I say build I mean manufacture. |
If you've had a chance to shoot one, how does the 556 compare to the Masada, XCR and HK 416 in that respect? |
I'm pretty sure there was a US Court of Appeals case that said it was ok to make one for personal use as long as its not nfa. If I remember right there was a guy who made one in his home and was busted and the Court said he wasn't required to have ATF approval. Maybe someone here remembers the cite of that case? |
Yeah, hurry up and sell us one already!
|
No, a Form 1 is only for NFA weapons. I know the top of it says "firearm" but if you look on the back of the form, the term "firearm" is defined as a MG, SBS, SBR, DD, or AOW for the form If you want to manufacture you need to have an 07 FFL which I assume Magpul has. Making a normal (title 1) firearm needs no paperwork or approval. This is important as the term making and manufacturing are used interchangably by some, but are distinct and seperate legally defined activities and have certain laws that must be obeyed specific to each activity. |
ME!!!!!!!!............b/c I would need a perm attached Flash hider     
|
I wouldn't You just can't please everyone I guess. I like the AR-15 enough to own eight of them and I like the idea of being able to customize a rifle, but I don't want to take an innovative, new idea and turn it into a another damn AR-15. There's a lot of folks out here trying to get Magpul to do to the Masada what Sig did to the 55X. "Hmm.... That guy died when he drank the kool-aid. Oh well, surely mine isn't poisened." |
I don't see how adding interchangeable grips and stocks makes the design any less innovative. |
It's not really the interchangeable grips that bother me. I don't think it's as big a deal as some make it out to be, but hey I can appreciate how different folks have different sized hands. What really gets me is the friggin tube AR-15 buttstock. The Masada and SCAR came up with great (but not terribly attractive) buttstocks that fold, adjust for length and height and still people want to throw away a good idea and put tubes on their rifles because it's what's already in fashion. |
As for the SCAR vs Masada, the SCAR benifits from design and initial testing by a large, multi national Military contractor with decades of experience building military rifles.. Years of design input by end users, testing by end uses, bug fixing/discovery by the Military, etc.... vs. the Masada ?
Then why isnt it out yet ? Doesnt take that long to cut molds. |
[ARCHIVED THREAD] - MASADA Review (Page 1 of 2)
Armory Sponsor