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[ARCHIVED THREAD] - MY first AUG:: Range report Added:: (Page 1 of 2)
Posted: 11/17/2010 10:55:09 PM EDT
I want to give Ratworkx and MSAR both a big +1. I email the MSAR rep about some LH bolts and a replacement parts kit and before the charge post to my credit card the package was delivered. Ratworkx also installed the extended charging handle instead of just send it in the box. Its been sitting at home for awhile but I just got some pics from home. Cant wait to take it to the range when Im on R&R.
More pics later Here it is my new E4 with: 16 AND 20in barrel Spare parts kit w/ spare left hand bolt and right hand bolt TLR3 Troy BUIS PMI 40rd Preban mags 
Posted Via AR15.Com Mobile Here is the piston from the 16in barrel. The 20in barrel piston does not have any cutouts. There are 3 cuts on the piston. 
First impressions its very very compact and very very tight but solid. Def needs some breaking in. PMI mags stick in there pretty bd but do come out with a good tug but cannot be inserted on a closed bolt(Added a magpul follower and it takes a pretty good slap to get it to seat atleast unloaded and still cant be removed) Trigger seems alot better then It though it would be but I also have a trigger tamer to install. Also the manticor arms charging handle does not reliably lock back the bolt right now it doesn't seems to want to bite on the receiver I do have the original one included from ratworx which may try if this doesn't fix itself. I have removed all the rails i wont be using which left me with one on the left side infront of the trigger and top rail More to add once Iv had more time too get familiar with the rifle. Range Report: Took my E4 to the range with the 16in barrel and left hand MSAR bolt to the range yesterday. Fired some 62gr green tip M855 with ZERO malfunctions I also used some range ammo which was 55gr Hotshot ammo made by CIA Inc and manufactured in Republic of Korea. Had two failure to ejects that were related to me experimenting with the gas settings. Had 3 failure to feeds not entirely sure why. I was shooting mainly to check function and home defense accuracy which was dead on using both the ACOG and RMR at 25-50ft Overall Im very happy with the rifle especially since with the ammo I would normally be using the rifle was functioning 100 percent. Would I trust this as my GOTO gun right now? No. But after some more break in and learning the manual of arms as compact and accurate this gun is atleast for HD I do see this being my GOTO gun in the future. |
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Quoted: Sorry, Your rifle is not a Steyr product,, it is not a Aug. You have a bullpup style firearm. It is clone rifle. A copy manufactured by the company named MSAR. Just trying to clear this up so we do not confuse members. Yeah this is my first post! Really not necessary... No need to crap in the guys thread, especially on Christmas |
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Quoted:
Your rifle is not a Steyr product,, it is not a Aug. AUG (Armee Universal Gewehr) only Steyr produces this. I do hope you enjoy your new MSAR product and have great luck with it.Lighten up on the hate, guys. Are you all so anal when people talk about their "M4" or "AR-15s"? Both defining things that are either not for civilian sale or made specifically by Colt's... You'd think the bullshit hate could stop for just *one* day... |
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Quoted: Your rifle is not a Steyr product,, it is not a Aug. AUG (Armee Universal Gewehr) only Steyr produces this. I do hope you enjoy your new MSAR product and have great luck with it.You mean we shouldn't call anything an AR, because only Armalite Rifles are really ARs right? Lighten up Francis. |
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Welcome to the MSAR Club and Merry Christmas! I am sure you will enjoy your new rifle.
I am impressed you have both barrels (16in and 20in) and I am interested to see which one you like better once you get out and do some shooting. I purchased the RatWorx replacement parts also but have never needed them. They are good to have on hand should you need them. We (my wife and I) have 2 MSAR E4's with > 1500 rounds through them (each) with no issues at all. All of our "MSAR" mags have worked perfectly also. As for the upgraded charging handle, I had the exact same issue when I put mine on. That said, I noticed that getting it in to the lock fully is more of a technique issue then a break in issue (YYMV). The increased length of the grasping surface (while greatly improving the ergonomics) will at first cause you to 'tilt just the upper edge into the notch' vice seating the full face of it squarely into the notch. It is because the longer lever makes it easier to "fold the handle" on its upper axis then correctly rotate it (on the lower axis) when going into the notch. Believe it or not I now find it vastly easier to do with the improved charging handle vice the stock one. What works for me is to get a solid grasp on the charging handle (palm up) with with inside of my hand just touching the lower (shorter) portion of the L shaped handle. This allows me to lift (instead of tilt or fold) the charging handle into the notch fully thus locking the bolt to the rear securely. If you try it slowly and firmly at first (while watching how it seats) you will find the "sweet spot" in the technique. By applying slightly more inward pressure on the lower leg of the L shaped handle it slips correctly into the notch. Like riding a bike or tying your shoes a little refinement in technique goes a very long way so once "you have it down" you can execute it repeatedly, quickly, and without a lot of effort. I do hope that helps some and I look forward to your range report! In closing; sadly owning an MSAR rifle around here makes you a target for routine disparagement by a large part of the people who inhabit the bullpup forum. You will find that in any post about 5% of what you get is factual advice (from MSAR owners) and the other 95% is some a-holes opinion of why your new rifle is crap, that anyone who owns one is an unshod nerfherder and that you will be killed by zombie garden gnomes for your transgressions against humanity by even uttering the letters MSAR. The only posts that are routinely celebrated by these people seem to be either the ones claiming the rifles were intentionally made from radioactive materials and are known to cause everything from birth defects in goats to the rising unemployment amongst mall ninjas or ones that claim Tony M. broke in to someones house, stole their trash and got their dog pregnant all after rendering 100% of their NATO magazines unserviceable. While I support (and as a veteran defended) their freedom of speech at times it gets a bit tiresome to search through 300 "worst company in the world" posts to find the technical info your looking for. Gotta love it! Dr. H |
 I got my new E4 6.8mm to the range yesterday for the first time. Fired 100 rounds of SSA factory 115 OTM's out of 6 magazines made by 3 different manufacturers. Function was 100 percent. Used the high gas setting, brass flew 15 feet to 4 o'clock. Got 1.5" groups at 50 yardsfiring off stock-mounted bipod with rear bags, kinda. the rear bag arrangement wasn't working real well so there was more of me involved in the support than I would have liked. I think the rifle is capable of better, when i come up with a better rear support system. I used the stock trigger. Next time out will be with some after-market mods to the hammer pack. I'll post pics and a full range report after a few hundred more rounds. I do love shooting this thing!!
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You will find that in any post about 5% of what you get is factual advice (from MSAR owners) and the other 95% is some a-holes opinion of why your new rifle is crap, that anyone who owns one is an unshod nerfherder and that you will be killed by zombie garden gnomes for your transgressions against humanity by even uttering the letters MSAR. A lot of factual advice is from people who bought a MSAR and have stated that their MSAR is in fact a piece of crap. To the op I hope you get years of trouble free enjoyment out of your MSAR.
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Quoted:
You will find that in any post about 5% of what you get is factual advice (from MSAR owners) and the other 95% is some a-holes opinion of why your new rifle is crap, that anyone who owns one is an unshod nerfherder and that you will be killed by zombie garden gnomes for your transgressions against humanity by even uttering the letters MSAR. A lot of factual advice is from people who bought a MSAR and have stated that their MSAR is in fact a piece of crap. To the op I hope you get years of trouble free enjoyment out of your MSAR.Yes some of it is certainly from people that did get a bad rifle and have serious function issues. I will certainly give you that! Oddly there seems to be very little middle ground on the rifles. Either they run perfectly or are utterly unreliable unless fixed. That said, I find it interesting that some of us seem to get great service from the company while others seem not to. When any leader (or their staff) fail to follow up and follow through they are assured to have inconsistent service quality. |
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Quoted:
Quoted:
You will find that in any post about 5% of what you get is factual advice (from MSAR owners) and the other 95% is some a-holes opinion of why your new rifle is crap, that anyone who owns one is an unshod nerfherder and that you will be killed by zombie garden gnomes for your transgressions against humanity by even uttering the letters MSAR. A lot of factual advice is from people who bought a MSAR and have stated that their MSAR is in fact a piece of crap. To the op I hope you get years of trouble free enjoyment out of your MSAR.Yes some of it is certainly from people that did get a bad rifle and have serious function issues. I will certainly give you that! Oddly there seems to be very little middle ground on the rifles. Either they run perfectly or are utterly unreliable unless fixed. That said, I find it interesting that some of us seem to get great service from the company while others seem not to. When any leader (or their staff) fail to follow up and follow through they are assured to have inconsistent service quality. Well its like anything here mostly people for up on one side of the line so Ill reserve judgment till i get this rifle to the range. I am really not expecting that at all and Iv actually had great service from MSAR here so far and do not judge them by their appearance on this forum. The company is probably changing and thier CS Reps might not have as much time as Dave used to to be online. But sadly if I have any serious issues this rifle will get sold since I am on leave and will not have time to send it in to MSAR for modification or repair. I am not expecting this and this is NOT something unique to just this rifle. |
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Quoted:
Sorry, Your rifle is not a Steyr product,, it is not a Aug. You have a bullpup style firearm. It is clone rifle. A copy manufactured by the company named MSAR. Just trying to clear this up so we do not confuse members. Yeah this is my first post! Wow, been over to AUGUSA yet? You sound just like them. To clarify matters, an AUG is not made by Sabre defense either. That would be a contract gun. |
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Quoted:
. In closing; sadly owning an MSAR rifle around here makes you a target for routine disparagement by a large part of the people who inhabit the bullpup forum. You will find that in any post about 5% of what you get is factual advice (from MSAR owners) and the other 95% is some a-holes opinion of why your new rifle is crap, that anyone who owns one is an unshod nerfherder and that you will be killed by zombie garden gnomes for your transgressions against humanity by even uttering the letters MSAR. The only posts that are routinely celebrated by these people seem to be either the ones claiming the rifles were intentionally made from radioactive materials and are known to cause everything from birth defects in goats to the rising unemployment amongst mall ninjas or ones that claim Tony M. broke in to someones house, stole their trash and got their dog pregnant all after rendering 100% of their NATO magazines unserviceable. While I support (and as a veteran defended) their freedom of speech at times it gets a bit tiresome to search through 300 "worst company in the world" posts to find the technical info your looking for. Gotta love it! Dr. H These are the type of comments that fuel the hate , i like how you blend tech info with your own brand of hate , that gives you 50% factual advice and 50% a-holes opinion, according to your grading system. |
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I'm as guilty as anybody at MSAR bashing because I hate to see someone spend their hard earned money on a product that malfunctions. Something that should have and could have been prevented before the product was sent out the door.
Really all Snag wanted to do was show off his new rifle and this is what it comes to. I'm as guility as anyone and will try to watch it in the future. |
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Quoted: The AUG A3 is not a Sabre product, even though the US made compliance parts are made by Sabre. It is still a Steyr product, and many of the parts are made in Austria, and what is made here is made to Steyrs specs. Furthermore only Steyr decides what is and is not an AUG, and the Steyr AUG A3 SA USA is an AUG (US made compliance parts and all). The AUG A3 US is no less an Steyr AUG than a Arsenal SLR or SGL is an AK...Quoted: Sorry, Your rifle is not a Steyr product,, it is not a Aug. You have a bullpup style firearm. It is clone rifle. A copy manufactured by the company named MSAR. Just trying to clear this up so we do not confuse members. Yeah this is my first post! Wow, been over to AUGUSA yet? You sound just like them. To clarify matters, an AUG is not made by Sabre defense either. That would be a contract gun. ...But none of that matters. I thought this argument was in poor taste and said so in my first post. Still, I suppose you think FN made M16A4 is not a "real M16" because its a "contract gun" |
MSAR works just as well for you as mine has for me.
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Still, I suppose you think FN made M16A4 is not a "real M16" because its a "contract gun"
No, the .gov owns the specs to the M-16, any builder they deem adequate can build one to their specs and the .gov gives it it's nomenclature. Steyr can call it an AUG but it's still a Sabre product in my mind, not bad just not 100% Steyr. I have no dog, currently, in the fight as I sold my E4 to compile enough for closing costs. But that being said I did not have one problem with it before that, and I would like a true Steyr but they are too expensive for what they are. MSAR brought a product to market that the original manufacturer would not until they saw the economic feasability to do so, they let MSAR take the risk and establish a desire. Sound business and I expect nothing less from the Austrians. Now if Sabre wants to make a FAMAS..... |
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Quoted:
Ahhh, I started a war with a few of the MSAR guys. Why? I pointed out something. Something that should be very obvious to the OP. I was just trying to help him out, He does not have or own a Steyr AUG. Please correct me if I am wrong. Welcome to the board Cliff. OP nice rifle. Enjoy it. |
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Yes I have been lurking in this forum for almost a year so I know what to expect. I believe that MSAR is not the top tier of AUG clones but it is however more accessible to the masses. So in my book its better then the and A3. Also making the demand grow so much bigger as to spawn lots of innovations for the AUG platform that didnt exist before.
There will alway be fan boy and downers |
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Yes I have been lurking in this forum for almost a year so I know what to expect. I believe that MSAR is not the top tier of AUG clones but it is however more accessible to the masses. So in my book its better then the and A3. Also making the demand grow so much bigger as to spawn lots of innovations for the AUG platform that didnt exist before. There will alway be fan boy and downers Makes too much sense, you must be a MSAR plant....... 
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Added more pics to the OP. Stripped and cleaned the gun the muzzle brake and check nut are welded not blind pinned and also I believe I have barrels with the grenade settings.
Looking at it from the top FH pointing out its labeled S H G R Also the piston was pretty dirty. at first I cleaned the E4 i got from Ratworkx and the piston was very dirty looks like more then 1 or 2 rounds were test fired through it and the barrel off a gen 4 STG so about the same amount of carbon. Also the regulater on the 20in is much harder to push down to rotate it. |
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Quoted: AUG is Steyr nomenclature. In fact its a Steyr trademark. And anyone they deem adequate can build one to their specs. Is it 100% made in Austria? No, but it is 100% built to their specs on a process line set up by Austrian engineers that came over to help set it up. And the parts that are not built there are built here by a ISO:9001 certified .mil contractor. Still, I suppose you think FN made M16A4 is not a "real M16" because its a "contract gun" No, the .gov owns the specs to the M-16, any builder they deem adequate can build one to their specs and the .gov gives it it's nomenclature. Steyr can call it an AUG but it's still a Sabre product in my mind, not bad just not 100% Steyr. I have no dog, currently, in the fight as I sold my E4 to compile enough for closing costs. But that being said I did not have one problem with it before that, and I would like a true Steyr but they are too expensive for what they are. MSAR brought a product to market that the original manufacturer would not until they saw the economic feasability to do so, they let MSAR take the risk and establish a desire. Sound business and I expect nothing less from the Austrians. Now if Sabre wants to make a FAMAS..... As for the whole, "would not until they saw the economic feasability to do so, they let MSAR take the risk and establish a desire". Thats totally incorrect. Steyr has been looking for a partner to bring a domestic AUG since the AWB expired. They were originally in negotiations with DSA (the company that bought their "not real, contract gun" FAL tooling as well as imported the TMP), and there was supposedly rumored brief talks with MSAR. All of that was well before the STG556 came to market. |
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Does it really matter anymore? Steyr isn't producing new A3 rifles. MSAR hasn't produced or purchased a new barrel or receiver in awhile. TPD is out of business. 2010 was a rough year for bullpup fans. Here is hoping 2011 holds better times. EDIT: Almost forgot. CD went out of business and the Tavor deal turned back to vapor. We did get a few dozens Kel Tec RFBs though.  |
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Wow, there's so much hate!
I've taken to lumping MSAR's, TPD's, SAI's, and Steyr's into a group and I've been calling them AUG-alikes.... Maybe it will catch on... With so many parts that interchange between the various makes and models, it's inevitable that there will be a label for the group eventually. |
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OP,
The piston that came in my 20" STG has 3 gas rings and no flutes. The piston in my spare parts kit has 4 gas rings and flutes. The 20" barrels appear to be targeted at mimicking the 20" AUG military barrels while the 16" barrels appear to be geared towards lighter weight, IMHO. |
[ARCHIVED THREAD] - MY first AUG:: Range report Added:: (Page 1 of 2)
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