Armory Sponsor
Posted: 1/16/2014 12:18:59 PM EDT
|
First off, let me say that in 2005, my wife & I built our dream home in the country. I had a backstop built, and a 30 X 40 Morton building. My shop was wired for a 50 amp welder, a single phase 20 amp 240 plug in for a lathe I had planned to buy. Also a seperate circuit for a milling machine I had planned to buy. I had both in my shop at school, & they worked great for me, even with students using them. On the night of August 31, 2006, I had a heart attack & 7 subsiquent cardiac arrests. No one thought I would live. God had other plans & kept me around. We did sell the place and move back to town. I now have about a 12' X 15' shop in my basement. I tell you this so you will understand that I know the seperate machines are better. Grizzly has a combo lathe and milling machine that I can make fit in my shop. It is 31" between centers, with a 1 1/8 hole through the spindle. The mill looks passible too.
What do you guys think? Are these a piece of junk, or something I can enjoy using? I have been bitten by the I wanna make my own receiver bug. Also a few other things. Or should I just pass and forget about it? My heart is bad enough that I have to go pretty slow, and break up into increments in anything I do. And yes I am a possible candidate for a transplant. Thanks for any advice or info you can give me on the combo, Mark |
|
Sorry to hear about your troubles, but very glad you survived!
I've asked the same question years ago, and based on the advice I was given then, I don't think you'd be really happy with a combination machine. Disclaimer: I'm not a machinist by any means! But I really think two separate machines are the only way to go, and there's always a way to make the space even if you have to set one up in the garage or the laundry room. A sturdy little benchtop mill simply doesn't have that big a footprint, and while not ideal or comparable to a big Bridgeport, would have to be vastly superior to a combination machine. (Thinking ease of setup, spindle-to-table clearances and the ability to keep one part setup in the lathe while perhaps milling another part to fit it, etc.) You get the idea. |
|
Thanks, you are right about the difficulty of a combo. I could probably make a small mill work. Could it be set up on a heavy duty steel workbench, and I mean heavy duty? It is about 6' long & 2' wide, and covered with equipment. I guess I'll have to build some shelves, but that limits the height of the mill. I am thinking mill/drill, is this what you were referring to?
Again, thanks, Mark 
|
|
As long as the workbench is sturdy enough to support the weight, it should work fine.
If you don't want to sacrifice workbench top space, a local fabrication shop would probably weld up a stout angle-iron stand reasonably cheap. Here ya go! http://wichita.craigslist.org/tls/4277191416.html edited to add: ( Not necessarily recommending THAT particular machine; just posting it as an example of the general type I was thinking of. ) |
|
Don't waste your money on a combo period. A benchtop mill will serve you far better if you don't have room for a knee mill. A lot of guys have the 12x36 Grizzly G4003 lathe and do a ton of gunsmithing & rifle building work with it. I know a guy who is a superb gunsmith and he has the same size work area as you're dealing with. He makes 100% usage of every single space in his shop. Floor to ceiling there is no wasted space anywhere. Yet you can walk and move around comfortably and there isn't one bit of clutter anywhere, every tool is at his fingertips. It's all neatly organized which is the key, use roll around tool boxes under your work bench, you can use two and have one accessible from each side of the bench if the bench is in the middle of your room. Pegboard on the walls, bins all labeled etc.. |
|
My thanks to all of you. I think I wanted to hear what you told me. I don't want to get into any really heavy duty gunsmithing. I did want to do an 80% AR 15 receiver, and a couple of other projects. One is to turn the 1" bull barrel on my long range AR15 down to 3/4 ", except for the gas block area. And I am sure I could be a Lot better organized, and use space better.
Again Thanks, Mark |
|
I cut my machining teeth on a Smithy. About 3 years ago I bought a dedicated lathe. I am about to buy a mill.
Separate machines are better for sure, but you can do most any gun work on a combo machine. I built guns from 1911s to Maurer rifles to 80% AR lowers all on a Smithy. I'll bet you can too. BTW, threading with the Smithy was an exercise in frustration. |
|
Kiowa,
Thanks for the vote of confidence, I was an industrial Arts / Vocational teacher for 31 years. My main subject and training was Automotive Technology with sequences in metalworking, drafting, graphic communications, & a Career & Tech Ed class. I did tons of machining in the Auto Shop, but it was mostly specialized stuff, turning brake drums, rotors, heads, etc. My old shop was wired for all the machines. Getting 220 to my current shop is going to be a bear since I had the ceiling dry walled when we finished the basement. The combo I was looking at was Grizzly's best one. I know the dedicated lathe & mill are the way I should go. I was hoping for more support for the combo, b/c who knows how long I will be able to use it. I have figured out a way to make both fit in my shop, but the combo would be a lot easier to get set up. Thanks Much, Mark |
|
OP,
As a guy who is not a machinist by trade, but has a Smithy Granite 1340, let me share my experience with you. First and foremost, of the combo machines out there, the Smithy is probably one of the best QC'd of them, at the same point in time, they are great about customer service. Will it do everything an dedicated lathe or mill will, probably but with much smaller cuts and more time invested. I bought my Smithy because I'm active duty military and have to move every couple of years, and knew dedicated machines would bust my weight limit big time. As such, if I knew I were somewhere that I was going to settle down, and not be moving again, I would have gone the dedicated route. Are there times I wish I had gone that route from the get go, absolutely, but the Smithy has still done everything I have asked it do, but with smaller cuts and more time invested. What's that worth to you? Zach |
|
You make a good case for the Smithy. I have visited their page and was impressed with what I saw. As my next place of residence will probably be a pine box, the Smithy might be what I want. I have figured out a way to get both dedicated machines into my shop. The only thing working against me, is that my shop does not have 240vac wired in it. When I had the basement finished, I used drywall for the ceiling. I honestly didn't think I would live this long, or feel good enough to do machining. I can work for very short periods of time, say 30 min, with oxygen, and things are looking up. Thanks for your time, and THANK YOU FOR YOUR SERVICE!!
Mark |
|
I would say you will be much happier with separate machines, the trick is getting compact machines that are still rugged enough to give professional results. its hard to beat a South Bend heavy 10 for the size to performance ratio. they are a 10" lathe built to the same spec as their larger lathe's 12" and 14" lathes. there are lots of smaller cabinet and benchtop lathes that will serve you well though.
Finding a compact mill thats worth a damn is a little harder, for me the best shop size mill is the old rockwell mill. they pop up from time to time and are really built like a brick chicken house, they also require about a third the floor space of a bridgeport. there are also smaller jig boring machines on the market, but theyu tend to go for a little more money and arent quite as good for general milling operations (however they are GREAT for boring things out) |
|
Quoted:
I would say you will be much happier with separate machines, the trick is getting compact machines that are still rugged enough to give professional results. its hard to beat a South Bend heavy 10 for the size to performance ratio. they are a 10" lathe built to the same spec as their larger lathe's 12" and 14" lathes. there are lots of smaller cabinet and benchtop lathes that will serve you well though. Finding a compact mill thats worth a damn is a little harder, for me the best shop size mill is the old rockwell mill. they pop up from time to time and are really built like a brick chicken house, they also require about a third the floor space of a bridgeport. there are also smaller jig boring machines on the market, but theyu tend to go for a little more money and arent quite as good for general milling operations (however they are GREAT for boring things out) Millrite mills are good ones to look for also. They don't have the bells and whistles of a B-port, but are near the same size. Lots of high schools had them in their shops. I got mine for $850. |
|
I think I am going to go with new Grizzly. We had them in my Tech. Lab at school. No more than they are going to be used, I think I will be OK. I started off thinking combo, but you guys said there is always room. I got to looking at my shop, and I need to build some shelves, get rid of some junk, and I have room. My main problem is going to be getting 220 for the lathe. I could kick myself for not having it run over there when we finished the basement. I had dry wall ceilings put in too! I just didn't think, at that time, I would ever run a lathe or mill again. I almost sold off my oxy-acetylene & small MIG welder. Glad I kept them now. I am not supposed to go over 90 amps on the MIG, and NO TIG at all. This is due to defribilator, pacemaker.
Thanks for all the advice, Mark |
|
Quoted:
You can run the 220 in EMT conduit. You can paint it to. Yeah, getting 220 run into a room isn't as hard nor expensive as it's made out to be. Call a local electrician and ask him to run a 220 circuit on his schedule, time and materials. Don't make him bid the job; it's too small for the trouble. Bring him beer or donuts while he's doing it and you'll get 220V fairly painlessly. |
|
Really comes down to ROI.
If you have no plans on getting into heavy gunsmithing as stated, why have any plans on buying that equipment? It would be prudent to send the barrel off for the re-profile ($110 @ Adco) and buying a drill press to finish the 80% lower. Unless your small projects have a projected cost that exceeds the cost of the equipment, you are not only losing money, but time and space. I have been running this scenario for years. Would love to have a 3 in 1 setup or ideally separate units, but until I can financially justify the upfront costs, it is all ways a no go. If you the financial means to spare, have at it. |
|
I owned a combo for about 4 years. The lathe side of it worked fantastic, seems the milling aspect takes all the compromises. I eventually got fed up with the small square table and lack of space between the spindle column. If what you do is mostly lathe work, it would probably work for you. I do mostly milling so I sold the combo and bought a 6x26 bench knee mill.
I'm going to have to go lathe-less for at least another year until my wallet recovers. I then plan on picking up a small bench top lathe of some sort. My workspace is much smaller than yours, but I'm determined to make it work. |
|
Quoted:
I think I am going to go with new Grizzly. We had them in my Tech. Lab at school. No more than they are going to be used, I think I will be OK. I started off thinking combo, but you guys said there is always room. I got to looking at my shop, and I need to build some shelves, get rid of some junk, and I have room. My main problem is going to be getting 220 for the lathe. I could kick myself for not having it run over there when we finished the basement. I had dry wall ceilings put in too! I just didn't think, at that time, I would ever run a lathe or mill again. I almost sold off my oxy-acetylene & small MIG welder. Glad I kept them now. I am not supposed to go over 90 amps on the MIG, and NO TIG at all. This is due to defribilator, pacemaker. Thanks for all the advice, Mark There are VFDs out there that will let you run a 220v 3 ph or 1ph motor from 110v current (generally work best with the smaller 1hp or so motors as the amp draw is going to be 2X or more of the 220v motor's draw) |
Armory Sponsor