Armory Sponsor
Posted: 11/9/2006 3:21:58 PM EDT
|
Can you modify AR Bolt Carriers so the RLL will work w/o breaking any ATF regulations? Also, can you modifya standard AR safety and disconnector to work with the link and not get into hot water? BigBore??? Anyone??? Thanks for the help, FH |
|
It's OK guys - I have a RLL on Form 4. Just need a little info on what I can modify and what I can't. I know I can't have M16 FCG parts in any AR and that is the problem: I want to use the Link with several different lower/upper combos w/o having to strip them down each time and take all FCG parts out. I have looked on the Quarterbore site but haven't got a good answer to this. They do talk about modifying AR15 parts and I see exactly how that works. Just not sure of the legality of it. A little help would be appreciated, FH |
|
I talked w/my FFL this morning & he said SP1 is not allowed by ATF in an AR???!?!?!!??? Don't want to gainsay him on that but I thought SP1 is OK. ***THIS IS MY REAL REASON FOR ASKING*** - I am trying to modify the disconnect and selector to allow semi-auto fire. After looking on Quarterbore I see exactly how it is done (doing it correctly should take me thru my entire collection of spare selectors to get it right- LOL) and it uses AR15 parts (no M16) so I am trying to figure out if this is OK w/ATF or not. AR would stay semi w/o RLL inside - no way to fire Auto at all. NFA-DAN???? any help??? Thanks, FH |
First, Quarterbore is no outlaw: He spend a lot of time researching both the legal and technical aspects of RLL use for his web site. I would trust what I read there as much, and probably more, than what I read anywhere else on the internet. Second, Scott Bell and other C2s have manufactured and sold many, many such fire-control-conversion kits that allow both semi and FA function when used with an RLL. No one has ever had any legal problems resulting from their use, and I know that BATF is aware of them. Third, and the bottom line: You may legally modify fire-control parts in any way you wish, as long as the resulting firearm does not and cannot fire more than one shot with each pull of the trigger. I do not have an RLL and have not tried the mods listed on Quarterbore's web site, but as long as the host gun remains semi-only when the RLL is taken out, you are 100% legal. HTH. |
|
I am in no way technically qualified enough to give you an opinion. The fact that you are asking, leads me to believe that one, or more, of the modifications that you are attempting to make must be "borderline". If that is the case, I would recommend putting what you intend to do in writing, and submitting it to FTB for a response. Short of that, tons of people have/do use registered LLs, and I've never seen these questions about modifying the fire control parts to make them work. That either means that they are not needed, or it is just common knowledge, and people just do it. I would think, as Tony stated, that it would be fine, as long as the weapon still shoots semi with the LL removed. Sorry I can't help more then that, but it is above my current technical "expertise". I don't own an AR (YET), and have no experience tearing one apart. Dan Pinckney. |
Some semi bolt carriers don't have enough meat left on the the back for the link to operate properly so M60Joe recommended that I send M16 carriers and he will mill them down to the exact dimensions. By milling them back, they will NO LONGER trip a sear so it is OK in the eyes of the ATF. I would recommend against using SP1 carriers since they don't have the shrouded firing pin hood. Also, make sure you buy the KNS LL Protector. I talked to the guys at KNS about the protector and he told me that the protector takes ALL the stress off of the ears where the paddle attaches. The protector allows the safe use of blow back calibers like 9mm. Also, the modified M16 select fire kit that Scott Bell sells will not allow a semi AR to fire in full auto without the RLL installed when the selector is on Auto. So from reading the ATF letter to Colt, I will be getting a couple to install permanently in two different lowers (one setup for 9mm and the other for .223). |
Have the KNS Protector! I have a milled out AR Carrier that is working fine. I may try an M16 carrier but I don't want to run afoul of the ATF rules of "no M16 parts". What I want to do is leave the parts in other ARs 24/7 so all I need to do is drop in the Link. The parts could never caused the rifle to fire Auto by themselves.
Dan, Do you have the address to mail that question to? I really would like a written OK on this if I am going to carry these around. I usually have at least 3 ARs with me at the range and I would love the ability to do FA work and Semi with each without having to break out the armorers bench and spread parts everywhere, wasting a lot of prcious shootin' time! Thanks everyone for the advice on this! If I get anything definitive back from ATF I will make sure a copy gets posted here for future reference. FH |
|
You are wasting your time writing a letter. You are not going to get a definitive answer. You are going to get the same edited form letter everyone else gets. The pertinent paragraphs will look something like this: Any weapon which shoots automatically more than one shot, without manual reloading, by a single function of the trigger meets the definition of a machinegun in section 5845(b) of the NFA. An AR15 rifle which is assembled with certain M16 machinegun fire control components, and which is capable of shooting automatically is a machinegun as defined. The definition of a machinegun in section 5845(b) also includes any combination of parts from which a machinegun can be assembled if such parts are in the possession or under the control of a person. Thus, an AR15 rifle possessed with separate M16 machinegun components can meet the definition of a machinegun, if the rifle shoots automatically when the components are installed. The fact that a person lawfully possesses a registered NFA firearm does not grant authorization to possess additional non-registered firearms. A person who possesses a registered M16 machinegun and a semiautomatic AR15 and a separate quantity of M16 machinegun components could be in possession of two machineguns. We advise any person who possesses an AR15 rifle not to possess M16 fire control components (trigger, hammer, disconnector, selector, and bolt carrier). If a person possessed only the M16 machinegun and spare M16 fire control components for that machinegun, the person would possess only one machinegun. Thus the burden is on you to determine if what you have fires two or more shots with a single pull of the trigger. |
Tony_k, I checked the site and it did say they were checking into the legality of what I am talking about but I saw no info yes or no regarding the outcome of that check. I have one of Scotts Select Fire kits in one receiver right now. This is my dedicated platform (it is short-barrelled but no SBR so I will have to pull the upper off ever time I take out the RLL - may SBR this also later). All the modifications I want to do will stay in host each lower permanently! Thanks for the feedback! FH |
Exactly my point! I don't want any M16 parts in any lower - I want to use modified AR parts only. Each lower would have those parts permanently installed and there would be no way, without the RLL in the lower, that it could fire more than a single round at a time, even if selector is in the auto position. Thanks for all the help! I would love to have my very own copy of even that form letter in case local LEO decides to get curious! FH |
"modified parts" could be machine gun parts. If there is "no way, without the RLL in the lower, that it could fire more than a single round at a time, even if selector is in the auto position", then you have your answer. |
The below two page letter from the ATF to COLT states that it is not recommended to use M16 parts in an AR15, but if it doesn't cause more than one shot per trigger pull it is legal. If you go by the letter of the law that Renegade posted then everyone that owns a COLT AR15 is breaking the law b/c COLT ships or shipped their AR15's with M16 carriers. Here is the letter :  I am going with what the letter states. |
Armory Sponsor