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Posted: 10/18/2008 8:53:42 AM EDT
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Original Problem: My 2nd STG-556 was experiencing FTE's regardless of magazine or ammo used. I shipped it out to MSAR on a Thursday and they received it on the following Monday. I called several times and talked with Tim about the problem and estimated turnaround time. It was finished and ready to ship back out within 48hrs. Unfortunately, even though Tim supposedly wanted it shipped back Next Day Air (I told Tim I would pay to have it shipped back ASAP) their shipping dept didn't ship it back until the following Monday (shucks and other comments). I had mentioned to Tim in passing that this STG came w/the Tulip-style FH while I preferred the newer Jag-style FH (in fact, my 2nd STG was listed showing the Jag-style so I was just a little disappointed that it arrived w/the Tulip-style) so I was pleasantly surprised to discover he'd replaced the original Tulip w/a Jag-style. Also, I had the rifle shipped in a soft case and there was a new 30rd mag in one of the mag pouches (I don't know if this was intentional or accidental on their part). This morning I ran it out to the range w/8 30rd mags and a goodly amount of Prvi Partizan 55gr M193 & some Silver Bear 62gr steel-cased ammo (even though steel-cased ammo isn't recommended in the STG). All-in-all I ran through appx 300rds of the brass-cased Prvi Partizan first and then appx 180rds of the Silver Bear. Most of it was rapid fire w/a lot of double & triple taps, 3 mags emptied as fast as I could pull the trigger and some slow/aimed fire. Functioning was 100%, even with the Silver Bear (which surprised me as even my first broken-in STG w/over 1,000rds through it still has the occasional FTE w/Silver Bear). I still have 1,500rds to go w/o cleaning before I declare this rifle sufficiently reliable for my needs but this first showing is very promising. Although the changed FH & extra mag were nice and the shipping wasn't as fast as I'd hoped or expected, the bottom line is I wanted a reliable rifle (all else is irrelevant) and this rifle is far more reliable now than when I first received it. Only more range time will tell if it's fully reliable, something I intend to determine within the next few weeks but so far I'm happy w/MSAR's customer service. Tomac ETS- MagPuls *will* fit STG/AUG mags. They're a tight fit and take a little effort to install but it makes removing the mags out of some mag pouches *much* easier. |
You never said earlier, did you have to pay all the shipping charges, or did they pay for it? Glad yours is working correctly now. |
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Under MSARs limited warranty (they call it "limited" as a legal term so they can set the parameters) they will pay for shipping back from MSAR unless they determine the rifle was sent in because of user error (ie. you did something outside the norm or tried to play gunsmith) then you pay. I believe everyone pays for shipping to MSAR now. That's pretty standard throughout the better companies in the industry. |
Bad extractor on the 2nd STG, caused std FTE's every 4-5rds w/all types of ammo. On the first it's the occasional "case-gets-stuck-in-the-chamber-and-has-to-be-tapped-out-cause-the-rim-has-ripped-off" problem common w/users of steel-cased ammo. I can go 180rds w/o a stuck case which is much better than when the rifle was new so it is improving over time and so it's now only a minor training ammo nuisance I can live with. Tomac |
Well, I am slowly starting to lean towards 'not so good.' I left a PM, a post on the forum one of their employees frequents 9you know the one), and a phone message for their gun room a week ago, and have yet to hear back. My optic broke almost 10 weeks ago, and has been in their possession for eight weeks. I understand if it will take a while to build some more optics, but they had promised to keep me updated and have yet to not only call me as proimsed, but have not even returned my own attempts to contact them. MSAR if you are listening, please return your messages. I was a big believer when this all started, not so much anymore. The difference between good Customer Service and inconsistent Cusomter Service lays solely on following through on communication. |
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Dawg, I'm not sure if you've seen my post on the "other board", but as of today all warranty optics have been repaired or replaced and have been shipped back to their owners. If you or anyone else has any questions, please feel free to contact me at (814)363-9260 Ext. 19. Keith Keppel MSAR Gunsmith |
Keith, I was just coming here to post that the optic just showed up in the mail last night. My tube had a broken lens in it, do you know if I got a new tube, i.e. one of the new American made ones that have been rumored? The knobs seem exactly the same as the one I sent out, and I had heard the newer tubes were to have a new knob design. Sven J. aka Dawg |
What's up with that? From a customer perspective, Tim is or was a great asset to the company. He was competent and worked hard for the customers. I noticied Tony's name back on the contact page. perhaps he's going to do it all himself now? 
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If by great asset you mean didn't follow up and didn't return phone calls until my problem was outed on a public forum I would have to agree.  Thus far I would rate their Cusomter Service a solid 'C'. Hopefully with the recent changing of the guard things will improve. I do give Keith a thumbs up as the new guy- he obviously hasn't been there very long and my optic already shipped on the beginning of his watch, plus he posted on two forums to let me know it was taken care of. Thanks Keith. |
I'm sorry to hear you didn't have a positive experience. When I called MSAR I always asked for Tim, and always spoke to Tim. Anything I asked or requested from him was done so in an expeditious manner. I hope your rifle is good and I wish Keith luck. |
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If I have you confused with other MSAR owners, I apologize ahead of time. I have seen you post before that both MSAR's have been 100% problem free, the mags were the problem in the 1st one, the 2nd one ran 100%, and now a different response. I don't get it, is what you are posting in this thread the most accurate??? (1st msar has problem with steel cased ammo, 2nd problem ejector problem) |
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Look MSAR like any other company on earth has people with different temperments and talents. Some folks are better at returning phone calls while others work better through email. I believe the fundamental point is that MSAR continues to live up to the terms of their limited warranty (as well they should). They are a small business that is attempting to grow during an economic downturn and with an uncertain future ahead of them so it is certainly no shock that they have made changes to their staff. With certain issues such as optics you have to understand that MSAR is dependent on their sub-contractor for optics and replacements. I believe they are trying to keep things running as effectively as possible without overextending themselves. I've said it before and I'll say it again "MSAR is not General Motors." They do however meet their obligations. |
You must have me confused w/someone else. At no time have I reported that my 2nd ran 100% problem-free until *after* I got it back from MSAR (hence this thread). Reader's Digest version (let me know if you need it simplified further): First STG has always been 100% w/brass cased ammo in the 30rd & 10rd mags. I had an initial FTF problem w/my first 42rd mag until I learned to tap the back of the mag after loading to seat the cartridges against the back of the mag. With steel-cased ammo I initially experienced a number of FTF's and ripped-off case rims. Reliability with steel-cased ammo has improved over time whereas I no longer experience any FTF's but still have the occasional ripped-off case rim (every few hundred rds). My 2nd STG had FTE's every 3-5 shots regardless of ammo or mags used. When I got it back from MSAR I ran appx 300rds of brass-cased ammo and appx 180rds of Silver Bear steel-cased ammo through it and experienced no malfunctions of any kind. There, any questions?... Tomac |
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First of all, thanks to everyone for the warm welcome! I'm a little new to the whole customer service thing, so bear with me a bit. That said, the BEST WAY to get your questions answered is to call the number I posted above (MSAR Customer Service) between 8AM-430PM. Yes, there has been a "shakeup" with us, and the loss of Tim certainly was quite a shock. He was a good guy and a good friend, an I know I speak for the whole of the Gunroom staff when I say he will be missed. For the past few days we've been scrambling to redistribute the customer service responsibilities, and as of this afternoon we're pretty well reorganized. Dawg, the redesign of the optic knobs was an internal mod to prevent the complete removal of the knob (and the resulting loss of the nitrogen purge) by adjusting the knob beyond the limits of the internal optic tube. As far as the details of your optic replacement: I'm not sure at this time. If you could give me a call tomorrow, I'd be glad to find out for you. Thanks |
Kevin, Hey, thanks for being so responsive. I will give you a call tomorrow.  Dawg |
I'll vouche for Tomac. Tomac you have been and continue to be a great source of information about the STG 556 so keep-up the good work. |
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Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: If I have you confused with other MSAR owners, I apologize ahead of time. I have seen you post before that both MSAR's have been 100% problem free, the mags were the problem in the 1st one, the 2nd one ran 100%, and now a different response. I don't get it, is what you are posting in this thread the most accurate??? (1st msar has problem with steel cased ammo, 2nd problem ejector problem) You must have me confused w/someone else. At no time have I reported that my 2nd ran 100% problem-free until *after* I got it back from MSAR (hence this thread). Reader's Digest version (let me know if you need it simplified further): First STG has always been 100% w/brass cased ammo in the 30rd & 10rd mags. I had an initial FTF problem w/my first 42rd mag until I learned to tap the back of the mag after loading to seat the cartridges against the back of the mag. With steel-cased ammo I initially experienced a number of FTF's and ripped-off case rims. Reliability with steel-cased ammo has improved over time whereas I no longer experience any FTF's but still have the occasional ripped-off case rim (every few hundred rds). My 2nd STG had FTE's every 3-5 shots regardless of ammo or mags used. When I got it back from MSAR I ran appx 300rds of brass-cased ammo and appx 180rds of Silver Bear steel-cased ammo through it and experienced no malfunctions of any kind. There, any questions?... Tomac I'll vouche for Tomac. Tomac you have been and continue to be a great source of information about the STG 556 so keep-up the good work. +1 good info Tomac!! |
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