Armory Sponsor
Posted: 11/17/2013 11:53:07 AM EDT
|
IMR 3031 23.0 gr. 55 gr. Hornady FMJBT with cannelure CCI 400 Trim 1.750" OAL 2.250" WIN NT 5.56MM (once fired) http://i1101.photobucket.com/albums/g427/Ravon448/th_097_zps93f69e22.jpg S&W M&P15 16" barrel 1 in 9" twist I was completely comfortable with my data before I did this bullet but now I'm second guessing just about everything about it. The bullet isn't set mid-cannelure for one thing, just a little over. OAL and Trim I'm starting to doubt as well and of course, the powder load. Any suggestions about this bullet before I proceed with anymore? Also, can I pretty much use the same data using a mixed bag of once fired brass .223 and 5.56mm brass? Thanks all... Title edit for accuracy. dryflash3
|
|
Cannelure and lack of crimp are not important for most shooting. If you seat 2.26 might look better but 2.25 should work fine.
I checked Hodgdon on line data, and Sierra for 55 gr, your load should be ok. Sierra .223 Load Data The case trim to length is fine. See if you can post a better pic, its too small to see anything. What loading manuals do you have? Suggest a Lyman as a good choice in addition to another you might have. |
|
Quoted:
Thanks! Phew, these responses eased my mind  I'm using the Lyman 49th Edition along with the reloading data here and elsewhere on the internet
<a href="http://s1101.photobucket.com/user/Ravon448/media/097_zps93f69e22.jpg.html" target="_blank">http://i1101.photobucket.com/albums/g427/Ravon448/097_zps93f69e22.jpg</a> COL is a suggestion, not a mandatory. I use same bullet and always seat to mid canalure. And I crimp just about everything. May not be needed but gives me a little peace of mind. I've had success with IMR3031, if memory serves load was 23.8grs with CCI 450 in 1x LC trimmed 1.495". As always, work up your loads. Good looking round. |
From what I've gleened, is that it's not necessary to crimp this round but as I read more about loading .223 with a cannelure, most everyone at least seats their bullets mid-cannelure. Didn't know if that was so important or not. I'll experiment with it further. It's gonna be another week before I actually am able to test the load as I can't pick up my rifle till then. Even bought a new chronograph so I'm pretty stoked about it all  Gonna be a long week 
|
|
Quoted:
As long as the loaded round fits the mag, and has at least one dia of bullet in the case for good neck tension, you're good to go. Was trying to figure out how to say it then read this. ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ I use the the same bullet but seat mine a little shorter, 2.220" IIRC but that's just my choice. I don't crimp mine either. |
|
Quoted:
Was trying to figure out how to say it then read this. ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ I use the the same bullet but seat mine a little shorter, 2.220" IIRC but that's just my choice. I don't crimp mine either. Quoted:
Quoted:
As long as the loaded round fits the mag, and has at least one dia of bullet in the case for good neck tension, you're good to go. Was trying to figure out how to say it then read this. ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ I use the the same bullet but seat mine a little shorter, 2.220" IIRC but that's just my choice. I don't crimp mine either. I thought it was recommend for AR15's and most semi-autos to crimp the rounds. Is there a reason you guys are not? |
|
Quoted:
I just went back to reloading .223 (thanks Obama) and now I remember why I quit. Fucking military crimp. Luckily the Dillon 600 helps a lot. .223 is a pain in the ass. lmao... You could not have said it better. I actually start the long process of swaging earlier. I have about 1500 pieces to decrimp. 
Over the next week I'll do some here and there.... Hopefully I an finish by weeks end. |
|
Quoted:
I thought it was recommend for AR15's and most semi-autos to crimp the rounds. Is there a reason you guys are not? Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
As long as the loaded round fits the mag, and has at least one dia of bullet in the case for good neck tension, you're good to go. Was trying to figure out how to say it then read this. ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ I use the the same bullet but seat mine a little shorter, 2.220" IIRC but that's just my choice. I don't crimp mine either. I thought it was recommend for AR15's and most semi-autos to crimp the rounds. Is there a reason you guys are not? Not necessary, have shot out 8 barrels in the AR alone, and a bunch of M1a's and M-1s |
|
Crimped bullets and crimped primers in rifle ammo is the result of making it able to withstand the rough handling of military use.
Some sporting rifles also abuse ammo. This abuse is almost always the ammo that is in the magazine and most often by recoil. Handgun ammo, straight wall mostly, is a completely different story. Crimping your semi auto rifle ammo is just fine. It has been proved though that its pretty much a user choice and not really a necessity for most rifles. Like all things though I am sure there are exceptions. |
|
I just received my .45 acp die set after a long wait in addition to my new .38, 9mm and .223 dies. Haven't tried my hand at any pistol round/crimping yet but I'll find out soon and will probably be asking similar questions and second guessing myself in other threads.
I have about 9 lbs. total of 3 different rifle powders but now I'm just waiting on some pistol powders to come up for a decent price. I'll load and experiment with a pound of IMR 3031 for my .223 through the chronograph before moving into other powders and calibers. Quite exciting it is !
|
|
Quoted: IMR 3031 23.0 gr. 55 gr. Hornady FMJBT with cannelure CCI 400 Trim 1.750" OAL 2.250" WIN NT 5.56MM (once fired) http://i1101.photobucket.com/albums/g427/Ravon448/th_097_zps93f69e22.jpg S&W M&P15 16" barrel 1 in 9" twist I was completely comfortable with my data before I did this bullet but now I'm second guessing just about everything about it. The bullet isn't set mid-cannelure for one thing, just a little over. OAL and Trim I'm starting to doubt as well and of course, the powder load. Any suggestions about this bullet before I proceed with anymore? Also, can I pretty much use the same data using a mixed bag of once fired brass .223 and 5.56mm brass? Thanks all... The object that leaves the barrel is a bullet. What you load into a magazine is a cartridge. The trim to length is 1.750, just like it says in Lyman 49. (page 137) Bullets with a cannelure are normally seated mid cannelure. Crimp is optional with proper neck tension. Using the data for the 55 gr Jacketed SPT, page 138. Will work the same for the 55 gr FMJBT. I have worked up to this max listed load with IMR-3031 and 55 gr bullets in my AR with no troubles. But work up carefully watching for pressure signs. (page 46) If you use mixed headstamp cases, don't expect the best results accuracy wise.  Check to see that you do not have any PMP cases, these are heavier and need a 2 grain charge reduction. Win, RP, LC, WCC, PMC, S&B, ect all the same. There is some lee way with OAL for rifle rounds (not pistol) so your OAL is safe, just not what I would do. Welcome to the Reloading Forum. I'm off to edit your thread title. |
!
|
Brass prep for rifle-
Clean Lube Size and check for proper headspace Trim for trim length Rifle loads do not need to be crimped IF you have good neck tension. This is indicated by measuring the neck diameter before then again after seating a bullet. Ideal seems to be about .003- this is established by the diameter of the expander ball on your sizing die decapper. Many match bullets do not have a canellure and are not intended to be crimped. That round looks great, and hope you enjoy your new hobby! |
|
Quoted:
I have a noob question related to this load. Are the CCI 400 primers OK since it is closer to starting charge? I am scrounging looking for some CCI 450 and am curious if the 400 is fine. CCI 400 is standard small rifle primer, while the 450 and #41 are magnum primers. There is a substantial difference in pressure generated between these two classes of primer. A hot load with the 400 can easily be dangerous if a 450/41 is substituted without reduction in powder charge. Also, the 400 has thinner metal than 450/41. Hot loads can rupture the 400 primer, nothing good comes from this. As always, start low and work up when ANY component is changed. |
| Hornady FMJ bullets are a little short in my experience. In semi auto shooting especially, std rule of thumb for minimum seating depth - seat the bullet at a depth equivalent to bullet diameter, per Sierra bullet technicians. On Hornady FMJ, often the crimp is exposed in my reloads, never a problem. On 62 gr SS109 type bullets, I seat mid cannelure, but never crimp. Been reloading M1, M1A, and ARs for many years. Same as others, seldom crimp a bullet, not needed for accuracy or function. |
|
Quoted:
I thought it was recommend for AR15's and most semi-autos to crimp the rounds. Is there a reason you guys are not? Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
As long as the loaded round fits the mag, and has at least one dia of bullet in the case for good neck tension, you're good to go. Was trying to figure out how to say it then read this. ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ I use the the same bullet but seat mine a little shorter, 2.220" IIRC but that's just my choice. I don't crimp mine either. I thought it was recommend for AR15's and most semi-autos to crimp the rounds. Is there a reason you guys are not? I have my reasons for crimping my semi-autos with the Lee Factory Crimp die. Crimping with the Lee Factory Crimp die helps secure the bullet and improves accuracy, what's not to like. Here is a little accuracy test done with the Lee Factory Crimp die, Note, In all three rifles accuracy was increased with the use of the Crimp die. http://www.accuratereloading.com/crimping.html Here is what Sierra has to say about neck tension and crimping in a service rifle. Neck Tension When we stop to consider the vigorous (read, downright violent) chambering cycle a loaded round endures in a Service Rifle, it becomes pretty clear it suffers abuse that would never happen in a bolt-action. This is simply the nature of the beast. It needs to be dealt with since there is no way around it. There are two distinctly different forces that need to be considered: those that force the bullet deeper into the case, and those that pull it out of the case. When the round is stripped from the magazine and launched up the feed ramp, any resistance encountered by the bullet risks having it set back deeper into the case. Due to the abrupt stop the cartridge makes when the shoulder slams to a halt against the chamber, inertia dictates that the bullet will continue to move forward. This is exactly the same principle a kinetic bullet puller operates on, and it works within a chamber as well. Some years ago, we decided to examine this phenomenon more closely. During tests here at Sierra’s range, we chambered a variety of factory Match ammunition in an AR-15 rifle. This ammunition was from one of the most popular brands in use today, loaded with Sierra’s 69 grain MatchKing bullet. To conduct the test, we chambered individual rounds by inserting them into the magazines and manually releasing the bolt. We then repeated the tests by loading two rounds into the magazine, chambering and firing the first, and then extracting and measuring the second round. This eliminated any potential variation caused by the difference between a bolt that had been released from an open position (first round in the magazine) and those subsequent rounds that were chambered by the normal semi-automatic operation of the rifle. Measuring the rounds before chambering and then re-measuring after they were carefully extracted resulted in an average increase of three thousandths (0.003") of forward bullet movement. Some individual rounds showed up to seven thousandths (0.007") movement. Please bear in mind that these results were with factory ammunition, normally having a higher bullet pull than handloaded ammunition. To counteract this tendency, the semi-auto shooter is left with basically two options: applying a crimp or increasing neck tension. Link to article. http://www.exteriorballistics.com/reloadbasics/gasgunreload.cfm |
|
Quoted:
CCI 400 is standard small rifle primer, while the 450 and #41 are magnum primers. There is a substantial difference in pressure generated between these two classes of primer. A hot load with the 400 can easily be dangerous if a 450/41 is substituted without reduction in powder charge. Also, the 400 has thinner metal than 450/41. Hot loads can rupture Thanks for the reply. In order to not hijack this guy's thread, I will start a new one. the 400 primer, nothing good comes from this. As always, start low and work up when ANY component is changed. Quoted:
Quoted:
I have a noob question related to this load. Are the CCI 400 primers OK since it is closer to starting charge? I am scrounging looking for some CCI 450 and am curious if the 400 is fine. CCI 400 is standard small rifle primer, while the 450 and #41 are magnum primers. There is a substantial difference in pressure generated between these two classes of primer. A hot load with the 400 can easily be dangerous if a 450/41 is substituted without reduction in powder charge. Also, the 400 has thinner metal than 450/41. Hot loads can rupture Thanks for the reply. In order to not hijack this guy's thread, I will start a new one. the 400 primer, nothing good comes from this. As always, start low and work up when ANY component is changed. |
Armory Sponsor