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Posted: 1/31/2009 7:45:34 AM EDT
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Howdy,
I'm a college student who has always had an interest in firearms, and I'm even considering using my future Mech Eng degree in the industry or as a side job relating to firearms. I currently have one AR in my collection and hope to have a 22 LR AR by the end of the summer. I've been racing motocross since I was young, but have really taken to shooting lately since it doesn't abuse your body near as much. On to my question: I have always planned on buying my first street bike after I graduate and get a job. I am now considering whether or not it would be a better idea to use that money instead to buy a registered DIAS. It would likely cost about as much as I had planned on spending on the street bike, and is much less likely to kill me. A big factor in my desire to buy a DIAS is the fact that it will hold its value whereas the motorcycle lose it drastically. I haven't looked into M16 lowers, but I assume they will be fairly similar to the DIAS legally but cost more. Has the price of DIAS's spiked recently? If so, what was the "normal" market price for them? Would you expect the price to come down once this Obama inspired craze is over? Long term, how will the value of the DIAS change? I assume that as time goes by they will only get more valuable, especially if there are any gun bans. Could one justify purchasing a DIAS as an "investment"? Thanks for the help! |
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Just bought one, myself. One immediate observation is that they seem to come up for sale far less than RR's. I'd say anything less than $12k would be a deal, with any that are all-steel commanding an additional premium. You are incorrect as to the cost of a DIAS vs. a RR - any RR but an original Colt will likely be cheaper, especially when you factor in the cost of the host gun.
As to future value, I believe it is a mistake to consider anything that can be made illegal to own (or at least transfer) at the stroke of a pen an investment. If you are going to buy it, buy it to shoot it. I don't believe the "Obama scare" has impacted MG prices at all - if anything, the economy has them down a bit - or at least flat. |
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Howdy, I'm a college student who has always had an interest in firearms, and I'm even considering using my future Mech Eng degree in the industry or as a side job relating to firearms. I currently have one AR in my collection and hope to have a 22 LR AR by the end of the summer. I've been racing motocross since I was young, but have really taken to shooting lately since it doesn't abuse your body near as much. On to my question: I have always planned on buying my first street bike after I graduate and get a job. I am now considering whether or not it would be a better idea to use that money instead to buy a registered DIAS. It would likely cost about as much as I had planned on spending on the street bike, and is much less likely to kill me. A big factor in my desire to buy a DIAS is the fact that it will hold its value whereas the motorcycle lose it drastically. I haven't looked into M16 lowers, but I assume they will be fairly similar to the DIAS legally but cost more. Has the price of DIAS's spiked recently? If so, what was the "normal" market price for them? I picked up my steel RDIAS a year ago for 13.5k, recently I've seen several sell for 14-15k Would you expect the price to come down once this Obama inspired craze is over? I don't think the price is related to Obama, I expect them to go up a few thousand more then level off. There are only so may people who want to spend 20k on a little piece of metal. Long term, how will the value of the DIAS change? I assume that as time goes by they will only get more valuable, especially if there are any gun bans. Could one justify purchasing a DIAS as an "investment"? Don't buy it as an investment, buy it because you want it and view the investment as a bonus. Thanks for the help! |
| I think the others have covered the questions pretty well. I had thought about buying a bike, but had the same thoughts as you. I went with a RR, and couldn't be happier. I got a really good deal on it though. If you keep your eyes open, and are quick with it, you can get them. But good deals usually go in a couple of hours, really good deals get taken in less. I would not buy it as an invesment though. That would be a poor choice. I always wanted one, so that's why I got it. I'll make money on it when I sell it, but like I said, I watched the boards and jumped on a deal. |
| Thanks again for the help guys, I think I may wait a few years before seriously considering either. 14k into a retirement account instead of a motorcycle or toy (that none of the ranges i have a membership at will allow) sounds like a better idea. Maybe I'll just get another caliber AR to keep myself occupied for awhile. |
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something to consider, is that the bike store will help you get financing on your purchase for 3 to 5 years.
a "machinegun store" or individual seller will not. I have no idea about a bank giving you a personal loan secured by a piece of metal smaller than your car keys. keep that in mind. that being said, if you're of the doom/gloom mindset, crotch rockets will be available forever, DIAS/RR's may not be.... |
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buying for "investment" is a terrible idea. unlike other "investments", it would only take a little rider attached to some spending bill and, viola, MG's are no longer transferable. guess what? your $15,000 piece of metal just became your $0 piece of metal. buy a MG because you want to own and shoot an MG. if you decide to sell it down the road and you make a few bucks, kudos! |
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I know of a guy that recieved a loan to buy an MP5SD. The bank was more than happy to do so, but I think he had to list his house as an asset.
something to consider, is that the bike store will help you get financing on your purchase for 3 to 5 years. a "machinegun store" or individual seller will not. I have no idea about a bank giving you a personal loan secured by a piece of metal smaller than your car keys. keep that in mind. that being said, if you're of the doom/gloom mindset, crotch rockets will be available forever, DIAS/RR's may not be.... Kharn |
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Quoted: Quoted: I know of a guy that recieved a loan to buy an MP5SD. The bank was more than happy to do so, but I think he had to list his house as an asset.something to consider, is that the bike store will help you get financing on your purchase for 3 to 5 years. a "machinegun store" or individual seller will not. I have no idea about a bank giving you a personal loan secured by a piece of metal smaller than your car keys. keep that in mind. that being said, if you're of the doom/gloom mindset, crotch rockets will be available forever, DIAS/RR's may not be.... Kharn So he got a second mortgage to pay for it? |
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I know of a guy that recieved a loan to buy an MP5SD. The bank was more than happy to do so, but I think he had to list his house as an asset.
something to consider, is that the bike store will help you get financing on your purchase for 3 to 5 years. a "machinegun store" or individual seller will not. I have no idea about a bank giving you a personal loan secured by a piece of metal smaller than your car keys. keep that in mind. that being said, if you're of the doom/gloom mindset, crotch rockets will be available forever, DIAS/RR's may not be.... Kharn well sure if you're putting your house (or the equity in it) up as collateral.... 
which is what it sounds like he technically did |
| Depends on your bank. My bank offers personal loans up to $15k, and it is based on your credit. They don't ask what the money is for. I got a loan to pay off some debt, and pay for my first MAC. I did this last January, and paid it off with in a year. It was good for me, but maybe not for everyone. Bank I use is Citizens. |
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If you are debating a DIAS or a RR a few things to consider.
If the weapon has a failure the RR is more likely to be destroyed than the DIAS. If the DIAS is damaged Steel is easier to repair then Aluminum. (Anyone know of a DIAS for an AR being destroyed due to a malfunction?) A DIAS can be swapped between hosts. (Perfectly legal assuming the same AUTO trigger group go's with it.) I am planing on buying a DIAS for my MGI in Aug this year as I have budgeted deployment income accordingly and have already chatted about the transfer with my CLEO as well as SBS, and SBR stuff. I'll be spending a portion of my midtour leave getting signatures fingerprinted and mailing papers to to the ATF. I then have 5-6 months before I get home. By then It should be approved. 
I'm just waiting for the ATF to send the paperwork I requested. Any Ideas how long it will take to get to an APO address? 
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If the weapon has a failure the RR is more likely to be destroyed than the DIAS. If the DIAS is damaged Steel is easier to repair then Aluminum. (Anyone know of a DIAS for an AR being destroyed due to a malfunction?) With all due respect, I think you may be exaggerating the dangers. In four decades of involvement in civilian-owned NFA, I have seen: ––-Several RRs lost through theft and never recovered. In two cases, the thiefs took the entire safes away, and an RDIAS would have been lost along with the RRs. ––Three RRs lost when the owners' homes burned to the ground, and the contents of their safes were incinerated. They lost RRs ... and would have had quite a project locating an RDIAS among the charred, melted mess. (You do know that at least half the RDIAS out there are made of aluminum, right?) ––One RR destroyed when the owner leaned it up against the tailgate of his truck, forgot it was there, and backed over it. He is still crying, and it is many, many years later. RRs do get damaged or destroyed in military use: Jumping out of perfectly good airplanes, butt-stroking bad guys, using rifles as pry-bars to open crates are all seriously detrimental to an alloy receiver. But no civilian in their right mind will be doing that with a transferable RR. Now, I have seen two RRs that were damaged –– both occured when the owners strapped on out-of-spec cheapo uppers and shot dangerous ammo (one was the Paragon battlefield pickup ammo that was retumbled to clean up the cases while still loaded, and the stick powder turned into faster-burning fragments). In both cases, the uppers were destroyed but the damage to the lower was the magwell was "bowed out" when the pressure vented down. The receivers remained intact and were very repairable. But the owners learned the hard way not to use out-of-spec parts or crappy ammo in a $10k alloy gun. There are range-owned RRs out there with documented counts of over half a million rounds. They needed the hammer- and trigger pin holes sleeved, but other than that, they are still in-spec and still working daily. The military probably has some, too. I agree that an RDIAS is in many ways more flexible –– wish I had one so I could use an MGI host lower. But from what I have seen and experienced, civilian-owned transferable RRs just do not see the sort of use that threatens or shortens their service life. If they did, I woulda swapped my Colt factory M16s for RDIAS a coupla decades ago. As always, YMMV. 
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Poop can always happen...... no mater what you have........ 
http://users.zoominternet.net/~picplace/Picthumb/brokernRLL.JPG http://users.zoominternet.net/~picplace/P1112003.jpg http://users.zoominternet.net/~picplace/receiverrepair.JPG http://users.zoominternet.net/~picplace/Picthumb/762druminside.JPG http://users.zoominternet.net/~picplace/m11380damagedcan.jpg http://users.zoominternet.net/~picplace/savethe60.jpg This makes me want to cry! Was this too heavy a spring, to tall a trip? What happened? |
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Thanks again for the responses. I've always been a cash for toys person, so I guess I really will not have to make the decision for another year or two. Lets hope they are still avaliable then! Cash is number one, but now credit is cheap. I just got a note at 4%.... On a $14k purchase that is only $500 in interest, and with NFA in this climate, SOONER is BETTER. Heck, with 3-6 months paperwork time, I'm sweating !! 14k at 4% now, or gamble that you can land one for $14,500 next year ? Just my 2c. |
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Poop can always happen...... no mater what you have........ http://users.zoominternet.net/~picplace/Picthumb/alumrdias3.JPG http://users.zoominternet.net/~picplace/Picthumb/brokernRLL.JPG http://users.zoominternet.net/~picplace/P1112003.jpg http://users.zoominternet.net/~picplace/receiverrepair.JPG http://users.zoominternet.net/~picplace/Picthumb/762druminside.JPG http://users.zoominternet.net/~picplace/m11380damagedcan.jpg http://users.zoominternet.net/~picplace/savethe60.jpg This makes me want to cry! Was this too heavy a spring, to tall a trip? What happened? That DIAS can be repaired by a good welder/machinist, weld up the holes and re-machine. Something I've wondered about. If you did the proper paperwork for flying with your rifle in check baggage. Would you carry your DIAS in your pocket? Just drop it and your other pocket items in the change bowl when pass security? I mean you got $1500 gun in baggage and $15,000 MG in your pocket. |
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Poop can always happen...... no mater what you have........ http://users.zoominternet.net/~picplace/Picthumb/alumrdias3.JPG This makes me want to cry! Was this too heavy a spring, to tall a trip? What happened? Most likely a heavy spring and the pin broke. Someone bought it as "vary good shape". He shot it a little and the JB weld started breaking. The pic shows the RDIAS with all the JB weld removed. 
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