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Posted: 10/18/2013 7:47:47 AM EDT
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I want an Mp5 pistol to later do paperwork on but I am a little hesitant at spending that much money knowing very little about the quality of these clones.
I need some info to steer me in the right direction. |
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I want an Mp5 pistol to later do paperwork on but I am a little hesitant at spending that much money knowing very little about the quality of these clones. I need some info to steer me in the right direction. There are a few clone builders on hkpro that people will recommend. Dakota tactical and a guy that goes by gilliebear are the most popular. Mine came from DJF on hkpro. Might not be the same quality as the first two (this is the only clone I've held so I'm not qualified to compare, this is just what I've read), but the process was very simple as it wasn't up to me to source all the correct parts then send them off to be built. There are also MKE clones that were imported a few years ago. My experience is very limited, so if I were you I would research each of the names I listed and that will give you a good idea of what you are looking at. There are some good options, but they are all relatively expensive compared to other firearms. |
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Search is your friend: MP5
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If you want a true factory Hk MP5, Circuits already has you covered. Seeing as this is your first post here and I'm unsure what you're looking for- I will give a quick-n-dirty rundown on where to look: If you want as close as you can get without being a *TRUE* MP5, you can buy an HK94 (semi-auto, 16" barrel 9mm, looks just like an MP5) and either SBR it and install a true MP5 3-lug barrel, or have the HK94 factory barrel shortened below 16". Some smiths will even remark the model designation on the receiver. If you want a gun that looks the part, you could have what is known as a clone built. There are a number of builders who do this and a few different ways to go about it. Most common is to buy a receiver flat, and either a demilled parts kit, or buy each piece separately. If you want someone to build you a clone from parts YOU SUPPLY - the two I recommend are: Parabellum Combat Systems - quick turnaround time, 100% reliability. Solid reputation. Jeff (owner/builder) also has a forum section on HKPro here Dakota Tactical - long wait times. highest attention to detail of any builders. Closest you can get (some say it's even better) to factory Hk Joe (owner/builder) has a forum on HKPro as well, here Now, if you don't want to go sourcing your own parts, you can buy from several places: DJ Getz Firearm Co Builds his guns from already-completed Special Weapons receivers. Good quality-control. Atlantic Firearms (AR15.com Industry Partner) is a dealer in DJF completed guns. Vector Arms These can be hit-or-miss. Some production runs seem to be better than others, might require some parts being swapped for factory parts to get 100% reliable. Atlantic Firearms is also a dealer in these guns. Hopefully that helps you in your quest to find a MP5, of one style or another. |
| Most of the clones run just fine out of the box, I've had a couple of vectors that have worked great. When I got my sear, I bought a true HK BCG for the sole reason that I figured it would run better then the group that vector sold it with. It might have run fine, but I found a LEO trade in from a local class 3 dealer, sold me the BCG for $550. Sold my vector group for $400, so worked out pretty well for me. It runs 100%. The only thing I don't like is the vector has a ribbed shroud on it, which is the only part that doesn't look like the true German gun. But for a range toy, I don't mind, and I'm not worried about someone scratching it. |
| I know everyone is going to be partial for the real Hk's over a clone but putting that aside will these clones actually run thousands of rounds reliably or are they more of a cool looking novelty? I ask because for $2000 you can buy the top of the line firearm in most any other platform., and are these actually going to last long enough to enjoy sbr-ing and suppressing one? |
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I know everyone is going to be partial for the real Hk's over a clone but putting that aside will these clones actually run thousands of rounds reliably or are they more of a cool looking novelty? I ask because for $2000 you can buy the top of the line firearm in most any other platform., and are these actually going to last long enough to enjoy sbr-ing and suppressing one? If properly built I don't see why they wouldn't last. Having "hk" stamped on the receiver for an additional $4k is where the novelty is. |
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Turner Fabrication? Turner makes good stuff from what I've seen. As to your question about wearing out the gun, I highly doubt anyone can out shoot an MP5. There was a story written ten or so years ago(maybe even longer) about a MP5 used by NASA with over a half million rounds through it. With nothing other then small springs or rollers/ejectors replaced over that time. As long as you don't buy a special weapons(which would tend to have ugly welds, and possibly a little out of spec, but could be made to run better with German parts added) you should have a nice platform that your kids kids will be able to pass down and still have life in it to shoot. |
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Parabellum Combat Systems
- quick turnaround time, 100% reliability. Solid reputation. Jeff (owner/builder) also has a forum section on HKPro here Jeff does an outstanding job, he even added a welded rail, something worth a few extra sheckles and the CS is great I can not be happier with mine (now if the Arfcom ferry will convince WA state to allow SBRs....) |
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Can someone explain to me why the large firearm companies dont manufacture these clones? Im just looking for some knowledge in this platform that I am obviously clueless about.
Hypothetically if a guy would buy one of these clones at the $2000 price tag, what type of resale is there in a clone should I find out its not what I was hoping? |
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Can someone explain to me why the large firearm companies dont manufacture these clones? Im just looking for some knowledge in this platform that I am obviously clueless about. Hypothetically if a guy would buy one of these clones at the $2000 price tag, what type of resale is there in a clone should I find out its not what I was hoping? You'll basically get back every penny you put into the original gun. Or VERY VERY close to it. Maybe consider digging on the EE for one. |
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http://www.ar15.com/forums/t_7_93/1227857_Special_Weapons_SW5_MP5_Clone.html
That's a great starting point, IF it runs well. |
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Hypothetically if a guy would buy one of these clones at the $2000 price tag, what type of resale is there in a clone should I find out its not what I was hoping? Limited market. You will get out in resale value what you put in. Look around and see what people are buying. My first MP5 clone was a PCS (built by Jeff Walters/Ghilliebear) that I bought from a HKPro member. Fell in love and had Jeff start building me my own after that. The first one I bought, I resold for what I had in to it, to an Arfcom member here in WA. If you buy a good-quality clone it shouldn't be a problem selling it. But if you are going to dip your toe in the water, don't do any one-off custom stuff, as it might affect resale value. Think of it like selling an AR-15. If you tell someone you have a Colt 6920 for sale, that pretty much sums it up. Anyone who wants to know can look up the spec sheet and they know whats "under the hood". Where as if it is a DIY build- you have to list every part on the gun. So something like a DJF-build where theres a "factory" spec sheet, vs "Here's a list of parts I sent to Jeff" might be easier for your first time. I still recommend Jeff 200% and say to just call him and talk to him and open up that dialogue and he can point you in the right direction. Sounds intimidating at first buy the guy is awesome to work with. |
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Yeah my concern definately isnt making everything back that it cost but my fear was that they were a platform that was so expensive to buy in to that you would be lucky to get half back should it not be what I hope.
Also, where do you engrave on this platform if it was form 1'd. |
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Also how do you know that there are enough US made parts in it if you purchase it already completed? I assumed that for it to be a completed firearm that they all needed to have 5-6, whichever it is # of US parts, but the more Ive researched the more confused I am. Now Ive got the impression that there are versions out there w/o the correct number of compliant parts and that you only need that correct number should you SBR it.
Can someone please explain this, I would be incluned to take the simplest route of buying one already compliant and then form 1-ing it so that I know for sure it is correctly done. |
| I wont get into 922r as it is very confusing, been beaten to death here and on HKPro and everyone has different opinions. If you're looking to buy a finished piece and Form 1 it ASAP- contact Atlantic Firearms (AR15 industry partner) and talk to them about what you're looking for. They should know about US-made parts in the various manufacture of guns they sell. I am not sure myself, but Im also not worried about 922r. |
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Yeah my concern definately isnt making everything back that it cost but my fear was that they were a platform that was so expensive to buy in to that you would be lucky to get half back should it not be what I hope. Also, where do you engrave on this platform if it was form 1'd. Like gopher stated, you will get back everything you put into a quality clone. If you deal with someone like Jeff you will not be dissapointed in the performance of the gun, as he sounds like the type of guy to #1 do it right the first time and #2 make it right if anything goes wrong. If you find that the platform as a whole just makes you go "meh", then somebody will gladly help you recoup all expenses to save themselves the long wait time of having their own built. Unlike an AR, the mp5's get engraved on the upper part of the firearm, not the grip/trigger housing. There are lots of options, I had mine engraved on the bottom left just under the channel, but I would just talk with whoever you get to do the build or engraving and I'm sure they will have their own favorite spot. It also depends on how much needs to be engraved. My trust name is a tad longer than most, and so I couldn't fit it on the magwell like I had wanted. |
| I have no understanding of how doing a build even begins. Its easy to source the parts for an AR but how does a person with no experience in this platform find the parts for a build and even know that the quality is going to be good enough to go through the hassle of building versus buying a respectable clone? |
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Can someone give me a rundown on the 922r compliance.
Example : I hypothetically decide to buy an mp5 clone pistol that is brand new, can I just form 1 it and have it engraved or do I also need to add US made parts? Edit: and how do I know if it is already composed of enough US parts? |
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Can someone give me a rundown on the 922r compliance. Example : I hypothetically decide to buy an mp5 clone pistol that is brand new, can I just form 1 it and have it engraved or do I also need to add US made parts? Edit: and how do I know if it is already composed of enough US parts? Most of the current clone builds are compliant all ready. The caveat is if you provide a parts kit that is German or if the builder states it is built with German parts. If neither of those are the case, you should be good to go. As for how do you know? You ask the builder or the vendor. |
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