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Posted: 9/10/2019 5:31:02 AM EST
So it seems that 2019/2020 is going to be the year of dual tubes for both branches, with the Army adopting the L3 Enhanced Night Vision Goggle – Binocular (ENVG-B), and the Marines going for the Harris F5032. I'm curious as to what's the general opinion of these systems on here, is this a step in the right direction or something else? I have to say I like the idea behind the Army's new system, but I feel like its going to weigh a ton and get broke real quick. The Marines system seems like a much more effect system but the ruggedness and survivability when given to junior enlisted may be an issue. So what say the experts on here?
L3 ENVG-B/ Army 
Harris F5032/ Marines with possible thermal attachments 
 
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Posted: 9/10/2019 9:33:12 AM EST
[#1]
Shew that ENVG isn't going to win awards for design. Would love to play with one though.
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Posted: 9/10/2019 3:44:55 PM EST
[#2]
Looks like they increased the thermal objective size from 19mm to 25mm+. I presume they’re running either 17um or 12um thermal sensors. If 12um, the larger objective will focus more photons on the sensor, which should yield better performance.
I’d like to try a set to see how it stacks up against the single-tube ENVG-III. Aside from complexity, expense, endurance, longevity, battery life, etc — I don’t know why the Marines would elect to not go with fusion technology. The capability of good latest-generation fusion will make any user wonder how they ever got along in the Jurassic period of NV when it was just lame ol’ dual tube WPs. |
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Posted: 9/10/2019 6:54:58 PM EST
[#3]
Well I have a hook up on the Harris the Marines are fielding. Still opting for the DTNVG tho, because with the Harris unit you have to get Harris thin filmed tubes to go with it.
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Posted: 9/10/2019 6:58:24 PM EST
[#4]
Interesting. I was an ENVG-3 tech for L3 when I worked there.
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Posted: 9/10/2019 7:41:22 PM EST
[#5]
A solid step in the right direction IMO.
I assume the Harris units will come with WP tubes as well? |
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Posted: 9/10/2019 11:06:52 PM EST
[#6]
This is the first I have seen of the mock up for ENVG-B. Looks like the mutant love child of the BNVD (PVS-31) and FGS (PSQ-36)
PVS-31 is fairly rugged, and a lot lighter than the PVS-15. FGS is just cool, but expensive. This could be a nice system. |
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Posted: 9/11/2019 2:04:06 AM EST
[#7]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
A solid step in the right direction IMO. I assume the Harris units will come with WP tubes as well? I should also add that according to a few articles, the Marines will have a separate thermal attachment for their new night vision, so probably some version of the PAS-29 COTI or E-COTI. I added some additional photos that I found floating around on the web. Most of them seem to confirm how much of a pain the new ENVG-B will be. All the pictures of it in the stowed position make it look like its gonna hang up on every damn thing, plus really throw the balance of the helmet off. |
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Posted: 9/13/2019 3:59:34 PM EST
[#8]
I have... thoughts about these programs.
The Marine Corps' Squad BNVG is indeed intended to have a COTI component in the works as well, that may >cough< affect downstream commercial availability of certain other products. ~Augee |
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Posted: 9/13/2019 4:36:04 PM EST
[#9]
I'm no expert, but hope it helps the good guys stay alive to kill bad guys. After I got my first Photonis PVS14 I let my cousin's kid (current Army Infantry) take a look through it. He said it was way better than what they were training with, which I was shocked to hear. Is the average grunt's NV equipment that outdated?
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Posted: 9/14/2019 4:03:03 AM EST
[#10]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I have... thoughts about these programs.
The Marine Corps' Squad BNVG is indeed intended to have a COTI component in the works as well, that may >cough< affect downstream commercial availability of certain other products. ~Augee |
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Posted: 9/15/2019 11:22:42 AM EST
[#11]
Should've just gone with white 31s.
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Posted: 9/17/2019 5:51:49 PM EST
[#12]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Should've just gone with white 31s. |
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Posted: 9/18/2019 12:37:23 AM EST
[#13]
Does anyone know the proper designation for the new ENVG-Bs?
You know, like PVS/PAS/PSQ-number? They do look heavy as hell. |
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Posted: 9/18/2019 3:57:41 PM EST
[#14]
I am quite surprised the Marines went with a Greek made night vision system.
https://www.theon.com/nyx Harris just supplies and installs the tubes. |
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Posted: 9/18/2019 6:59:51 PM EST
[#15]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I am quite surprised the Marines went with a Greek made night vision system. https://www.theon.com/nyx Harris just supplies and installs the tubes. |
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Posted: 9/19/2019 10:44:21 AM EST
[#16]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
So these will have Harris thin filmed WP? That's the main thing I've been curious about. There's a remote possibility that the Marine Corps has custom spec'ed them, but it's unlikely, but it probably allowed the system price to come in below the BNVD (L3Harris PVS-31), which could allow for a significant chunk when buying in large quantities. ~Augee |
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Posted: 9/19/2019 12:54:55 PM EST
[#17]
Quote HistoryQuoted: That is what the F5032s normally come with. There's a remote possibility that the Marine Corps has custom spec'ed them, but it's unlikely, but it probably allowed the system price to come in below the BNVD (L3Harris PVS-31), which could allow for a significant chunk when buying in large quantities. ~Augee Looks as though the Army's ugly duckling will only have fusion to the right side pod....kind of makes you wonder why they thought that thing was a better option than 31's with a removeable E-COTI. Heavy/awkward/clunky all the time, for the win? 
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Posted: 9/19/2019 1:52:07 PM EST
[#18]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Was going to say I imagine the Greek housing combined with Harris thin filmed tubes makes for a good bit lower unit price vs L3 housing & L3 filmless WP tubes. Looks as though the Army's ugly duckling will only have fusion to the right side pod....kind of makes you wonder why they thought that thing was a better option than 31's with a removeable E-COTI. Heavy/awkward/clunky all the time, for the win? The ENVG-B has all the hallmarks of a device created by a committee, cooks in the kitchen and indians and chiefs and all--you'll end up with units trying to support PVS-14s, BNVDs (PVS-31), Legacy ENVG systems, and ENVG-Bs, none of which are interoperable and all require different mounts, but hey, if we can get the right COMSEC issued out and the networked systems working and fielded and the hundreds of hours of new equipment training plus a new PT test and new dress uniforms and new SAWs shooting space-age ammunition all to happen at the same time, it’ll be a great day to be an American. Meanwhile... 
“Look at what I made at school today, ma!” ~Augee |
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Posted: 9/19/2019 2:21:42 PM EST
[#19]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
The ENVG-B will have a lot more networked features/augmented reality capabilities than just a BNVD with E-COTI will, though the E-COTI does have some through ATAK integration, and for better or for worse, the Army wants to institute a suite of networked functions, not just a single device/system solution. The Army has tried this a couple of times with Land Warrior, NET Warrior, etc., and they continue to pursue it, but various line units have already been using BNVDs and PSQ-20 ENVGs. The ENVG-B has all the hallmarks of a device created by a committee, cooks in the kitchen and indians and chiefs and all--you'll end up with units trying to support PVS-14s, BNVDs (PVS-31), Legacy ENVG systems, and ENVG-Bs, none of which are interoperable and all require different mounts, but hey, if we can get the right COMSEC issued out and the networked systems working and fielded and the hundreds of hours of new equipment training plus a new PT test and new dress uniforms and new SAWs shooting space-age ammunition all to happen at the same time, it’ll be a great day to be an American. Meanwhile... https://www.AR15.Com/media/mediaFiles/468022/AF192838-0B97-462D-BAF7-80BA6490AA7D-1095740.jpg “Look at what I made at school today, ma!” ~Augee Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Was going to say I imagine the Greek housing combined with Harris thin filmed tubes makes for a good bit lower unit price vs L3 housing & L3 filmless WP tubes. Looks as though the Army's ugly duckling will only have fusion to the right side pod....kind of makes you wonder why they thought that thing was a better option than 31's with a removeable E-COTI. Heavy/awkward/clunky all the time, for the win? The ENVG-B has all the hallmarks of a device created by a committee, cooks in the kitchen and indians and chiefs and all--you'll end up with units trying to support PVS-14s, BNVDs (PVS-31), Legacy ENVG systems, and ENVG-Bs, none of which are interoperable and all require different mounts, but hey, if we can get the right COMSEC issued out and the networked systems working and fielded and the hundreds of hours of new equipment training plus a new PT test and new dress uniforms and new SAWs shooting space-age ammunition all to happen at the same time, it’ll be a great day to be an American. Meanwhile... https://www.AR15.Com/media/mediaFiles/468022/AF192838-0B97-462D-BAF7-80BA6490AA7D-1095740.jpg “Look at what I made at school today, ma!” ~Augee I like it.I had forgotten all about the augmented reality talk in the past. But if these things will turn me into Terminator or Robocop, then I guess I'm in. 
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Posted: 9/19/2019 2:31:55 PM EST
[#20]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Meanwhile... https://www.AR15.Com/media/mediaFiles/468022/AF192838-0B97-462D-BAF7-80BA6490AA7D-1095740.jpg “Look at what I made at school today, ma!” ~Augee |
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Posted: 9/19/2019 2:59:40 PM EST
[#21]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
How much does that weigh? I don't remember if I've seen an actual weight published for the ENVG-B yet, but the threshold weight was 2.5 lbs (target weight 1.5 lbs), and my suspicion is that they're not significantly lower than the threshold weight, otherwise they'd be talking up the system's light weight. IIRC, it's also only got about 7.5 hours of battery life, though I believe that can be extended by turning off the thermal channel/augmented reality features. The FGE and GPNVG are both in the 30 ounce range as well, and the Sentinel with ball-detent and E-COTI hovers right about at 27 ounces (26.95). ~Augee |
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Posted: 9/19/2019 3:29:32 PM EST
[#22]
Looks heavy.
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Posted: 9/19/2019 3:35:42 PM EST
[#23]
None of this looks Marine Proof or like it will survive a week in the jungle.
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Posted: 9/19/2019 3:39:05 PM EST
[#24]
Quote HistoryQuoted: 33.9 ounces (2.12 lbs) self-contained with all onboard batteries installed, 12 hours of NV life and ~4 hours of thermal battery life. I don't remember if I've seen an actual weight published for the ENVG-B yet, but the threshold weight was 2.5 lbs (target weight 1.5 lbs), and my suspicion is that they're not significantly lower than the threshold weight, otherwise they'd be talking up the system's light weight. IIRC, it's also only got about 7.5 hours of battery life, though I believe that can be extended by turning off the thermal channel/augmented reality features. The FGE and GPNVG are both in the 30 ounce range as well, and the Sentinel with ball-detent and E-COTI hovers right about at 27 ounces (26.95). ~Augee |
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Posted: 9/20/2019 9:30:47 AM EST
[#25]
does this mean the market is about to be flooded with surplus pvs-14's??!?!
  
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Posted: 9/20/2019 10:34:10 AM EST
[#26]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
https://www.AR15.Com/media/mediaFiles/468022/AF192838-0B97-462D-BAF7-80BA6490AA7D-1095740.jpg “Look at what I made at school today, ma!” ~Augee |
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Posted: 9/20/2019 11:23:30 AM EST
[#27]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I see what you guys tried to do there retrofit ACH/ECH Helmets with Ops Core Mission Configurable Helmet Cover. and upgrade the PVs-14 with your bridge add E coti and you have an amazing cable system for a fraction of the cost. Too bad they didn’t go for this would have saved tax payers a bunch of $ and gave the boots on the ground a very capable system. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
https://www.AR15.Com/media/mediaFiles/468022/AF192838-0B97-462D-BAF7-80BA6490AA7D-1095740.jpg “Look at what I made at school today, ma!” ~Augee 
Note to self- don't put this guy in charge of military funding.
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Posted: 9/20/2019 12:37:32 PM EST
[#28]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I see what you guys tried to do there retrofit ACH/ECH Helmets with Ops Core Mission Configurable Helmet Cover. and upgrade the PVs-14 with your bridge add E coti and you have an amazing cable system for a fraction of the cost. Too bad they didn’t go for this would have saved tax payers a bunch of $ and gave the boots on the ground a very capable system. |
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Posted: 9/20/2019 12:40:15 PM EST
[#29]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
does this mean the market is about to be flooded with surplus pvs-14's??!?! https://images2.vudu.com/background/6831-576a.jpg Even if they did, though, they would probably be pretty beat up. The next gen night vision will slowly replace the PVS 14s, which will be kept in circulation for less important units, training, etc. By the time we got our hands on them they would be pretty well used up, and probably cost a small fortune. I'm guessing 1500 plus for some pretty nasty tubes, 2500 plus for clean ones. A lot of people would pay it just for that milspec rating. |
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Posted: 9/22/2019 4:23:46 PM EST
[#30]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
As if. They'll sink them to the bottom of the ocean before they let us lowly civilians have them. They won't even let us have their old beat up Aimpoints, so they're not about to let us have gen III night vision. Even if they did, though, they would probably be pretty beat up. The next gen night vision will slowly replace the PVS 14s, which will be kept in circulation for less important units, training, etc. By the time we got our hands on them they would be pretty well used up, and probably cost a small fortune. I'm guessing 1500 plus for some pretty nasty tubes, 2500 plus for clean ones. A lot of people would pay it just for that milspec rating. |
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Posted: 9/22/2019 5:30:23 PM EST
[#31]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I see what you guys tried to do there retrofit ACH/ECH Helmets with Ops Core Mission Configurable Helmet Cover. and upgrade the PVs-14 with your bridge add E coti and you have an amazing cable system for a fraction of the cost. Too bad they didn’t go for this would have saved tax payers a bunch of $ and gave the boots on the ground a very capable system. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
https://www.AR15.Com/media/mediaFiles/468022/AF192838-0B97-462D-BAF7-80BA6490AA7D-1095740.jpg “Look at what I made at school today, ma!” ~Augee 
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Posted: 9/29/2019 7:57:06 PM EST
[#32]
In regards to the TNVC setup as they suggested, how expensive would it be to convert old beat up 14's to white phosphor? If they could make it cost effective that would be a good way to upgrade rear echelon units that don't need the latest hotness.
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Posted: 9/29/2019 9:26:40 PM EST
[#33]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
In regards to the TNVC setup as they suggested, how expensive would it be to convert old beat up 14's to white phosphor? If they could make it cost effective that would be a good way to upgrade rear echelon units that don't need the latest hotness. To truly be cost effective, I would say keep the tubes they have and snag the PBM's |
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Posted: 9/30/2019 7:04:35 AM EST
[#34]
What are some of them wearing on the plate carrier that looks like a cell phone case? The female soldier has a cable ran to it also.
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Posted: 9/30/2019 7:58:12 AM EST
[#35]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
What are some of them wearing on the plate carrier that looks like a cell phone case? The female soldier has a cable ran to it also. |
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Posted: 10/1/2019 2:24:00 AM EST
[#36]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
What are some of them wearing on the plate carrier that looks like a cell phone case? The female soldier has a cable ran to it also. https://www.peosoldier.army.mil/docs/pmswar/Nett-Warrior-Poster-061512.pdf |
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Posted: 10/1/2019 7:44:47 AM EST
[#37]
Quote HistoryQuoted: It's the Nett warrior system. Think a Blue Force Tracker, but in a phone. https://www.peosoldier.army.mil/docs/pmswar/Nett-Warrior-Poster-061512.pdf |
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Posted: 10/8/2019 7:29:43 AM EST
[#38]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Thanks. |
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