Originally Posted By DOG556:  I think Mossberg missed a few things but it’s still a nice start since we lost the Remington semi auto. I’m sure they will come out with a red dot milled version to sell more next year. And then a mag fed version. To sell more down the road. A heat shield is a must.

Originally Posted By backbencher:


Are you going to fix a bayonet to a 14.5" barrel?

Originally Posted By ALASKANFIRE:
How much should it cost? What's your buy it now price?

Originally Posted By Whoisthatguy:


I just don't see how it should be more than $500 or so.

Originally Posted By fgshoot:

That is obviously a troll post. I mean look at his profile picture. He's not very good at it.


You can't walk out the door with the pump action Mossberg 590 shockwave for $500 unless you buy a used one. Before tax and all that they are a little less, but not by much. The most plain jane Mossberg 590 pump action with millions of them out there are still mid $400 guns.

A Mossberg 940 semi automatic is currently about $1200. Even those dirt cheap throwaway Turkish M4 clones that don't survive 500 round tests are over $500. The cheapest Panzer from PSA is $500, plus throw in shipping, FFL fee, and tax, and you are right up around $600.

You aren't going to get a new semi automatic shotgun that isn't trash for under $500. $900 is an absolute steal for the 990 aftershock, and they are likely going to be selling like crazy. If you don't have $900, buy the pump action.

Originally Posted By fgshoot:
If he is not trolling, it is grossly uneducated about manufacturing, and you seem to be as well. I've worked in manufacturing for a long time now. I worked in a die cast factory for about 6 years, which included about 2/3rds of the space as machining operations, mainly CNC. I went to school for automation, my background is in robotics, which I worked with daily there.

I have never been in a Mossberg plant, but I have seen videos on how they are made. The receivers are a cast part, which method I do not know. If they die cast it, they at a bare minimum needed a machine operator, and trim press operator paid by the hour. A die cast machine can be set up to run semi-automatically, with a robot that removes the part, sets it on a conveyor, and even spray the mold. You still need an operator around to watch it. It also takes engineers and automation guys to setup and maintain that setup. You are also going to need a furnace operator to keep the crucible filled and clean. The manufacturer, Mossberg in this case, is also the owner of the mold, which is expensive on it's own. R&D is a big part of that, you go through a number of revisions before you get a final product. Those molds also require maintenance from time to time, which is done by a tool shop, where I worked it was done by a skilled machinist who was well paid.

Moving on to machining, those parts can go through multiple operations. On a really fleshed out process as I'm sure the 500 series pump actions are, they are probably pretty efficient. On a new model, that's not going to be so easy. All of that is figured out by the engineers, which are well paid. The first machining step could be a CNC that does most of the cutting. All of that tooling is a consumable item, and not cheap. Depending on what the engineers decide, it could require separate steps, such as another operator running a tapping machine to drill and or tap holes. After that it's likely going to need a cleaning/polishing operation. That can be multiple steps. Sometimes you can run them in a big tumbler, which is run by another operator. Sanding or polishing operations can often be done by robot. You still need an operator to feed it parts, but it does free them up for other tasks. In this case there are also finishing steps such as anodizing, or coating. I don't know much about those, but there is certainly going to be at least one or two people operating the machining that does that.

Ideally during, and between all of these steps, QC checks are being done. The machine operators should have jigs, measuring tools, go-no go gauges, and anything else to check basic dimensions to find bad parts at the source. There should also be a QC department that does more thorough testing, involving high tech computer controlled equipment, but it's all done by a skilled QC tech. They aren't only checking dimensions, they are checking hardness, testing alloys, checking for any casting issues.

That's just to make a single part, a receiver in this case. Now it has to go on to an assembly station with another worker to combine the other parts which have gone through manufacturing. Finally, hopefully, it should go to another person for a final function test, and boxing to get ready to be sold.


When I worked at that die cast plant, we made single PARTS, that were valued over $1000 to the customer. A back plate to a dialysis machine pump with all the super special criteria ends up costing that company something like $1300 EACH. Those parts were no more complex than a shotgun receiver, although they were held to extreme standards as are most things in the medical industry. So I don't want to hear how a brand new design semi auto shotgun should be $500 because one particular operation of machining can be done with a lower paid worker pushing a button. Even the low skilled people putting parts in a CNC and hitting the green button are making at least $25 an hour now, they aren't cheap. Nobody works minimum wage anymore, McDonalds starts high school kids off at $15 here in the middle of nowhere South Dakota. Labor is a huge expense in manufacturing. The only way Mossberg has been so successful in making their pump actions cheaper is optimization. They have their process so well set up that it costs them much less than it will a brand new gun. It's a super simple design that has been around for almost 65 years.

This 990 aftershock is not that. It's not a copy of any design. It's a brand new design they came up with, it's more complex than a pump action. It required a whole lot of R&D, not just for the shotgun function, but also for the manufacturing processes. All that was done by engineers. And they did all that, in the USA, and came out with a shotgun that as far as I can tell is the cheapest semi auto shotgun made in the USA, Italy, or Japan. The fact that Turkey and China are able to put out products like they are, function or not, should really concern people more than it does. It's modern slavery, and if you are cool with North Korea, Russia, or Afghanistan doing it, I don't know why you would be cool with Turkey which is just as bad or worse.

There's absolutely no way they will ever be $500. This is nothing like powder or primer costs. They are not marking up for ginormous profits on shotguns just because they think people will pay it.

Originally Posted By fgshoot:
That is impossible to say, and it isn't only a cost difference, but a capability difference. It's extremely tough to make small holes or cuts in thick metal with a mill. You can do it with a tremendous amount of time, and but if you snap off a drill bit, that part might be ruined. That's easier said than done with a 1/32" bit. Instead they designed parts differently back then, and accepted the limitation. Today you can put that in an EDM and get all kinds of intricate holes and cuts made. There's a lot of medical parts made today that simply were not feasible in the 60's. They did have plenty of automation back then, it was just different. Automation does not mean robotic or CNC or electronic. Stamped parts were a lot more common, and were easier to mass produce. Automated assembly lines were setup for human workers doing more of the work.

On small runs, or custom parts, that's still mainly done by hand. There's lots of machine shops around where this is all they do. They usually have at least one CNC mill, but a lot of stuff is still made by hand on manual lathes, mills, and hand tools. Despite robotic welding, critical parts are still hand welded. Just now I was watching how Thompson Center makes their Encore, and they have a welder manually TIG welding their lugs on the barrel. I know you can get a robot to TIG weld, but I've never seen it done myself. I am not a welder, but I am an ok fabricator and am adequate with the normal welding processes of MIG, TIG, and arc (SMAW). I'm not a bad TIG welder at all, and I can see some real challenges in getting a robot to provide high quality welds like that. Generally robots are used to MIG weld less critical parts, where minor fitment issues aren't an issue, and no special welding pass is needed.

The ability to scale up production with automation is where the real money lies. Especially in a plant like Mossberg has, which appears to be an all in one operation. I'm sure they outsource stuff like screws, pins, plastic injection (trigger housing), and stuff like that. When you can set up a plant like that with not just robotics automation, but a good process, you know in X hours, you can make X parts, automation is consistent. You can see areas where you can cut down time. A robotic example was I played with the program for a robot on a die cast machine. I was able to adjust the arms path to move quicker, start the sprayer sooner, and start the door shutting sooner, saving like 10-12 seconds every single shot. Considering an operator if they were to run the machine by hand, they grab the part, lean out, set it on a conveyor, lean back in, spray the mold, get out, hang the sprayer, then hit go. I don't remember the exact times anymore, but lets say 45 seconds per shot. With some optimization, the robots got that down to like 20 seconds per shot. Plus lets not forget, a foundry is not pleasant. In the summer it was often over 100F in there. The crucibles were running like 1225F (magnesium). Now the operator isn't having to stand right in there, doing all that twisting motion all day too, that's worth something. You still need an operator, but often they would watch a couple of machines running. A supervisor would watch it through break, they didn't need to shut down.

I don't know if that answers your question at all, but there is no way I can throw out a percentage. If you are just making a single part for some outdated farm equipment, it's going to be cheaper to make manually. The other extreme might be something like a nail. It looks like 2" hand forged nails are online for $3 each.  You can get 2" framing nails made on a machine for like $6 a pound, or about a 8000% decrease in price. I'm assuming most things are going to fall between 1% and 8000%.

Originally Posted By fgshoot:
I'm not sure what else you want to hear. Using an original MSRP on a 500 pump action, scaling it up based on an inflation calculator, and using the difference percentage as justification that Mossberg should be pricing their brand new design semi-auto lower? You are missing a whole lot of pieces of the puzzle with that roundabout logic. It does not work like that.

I tried to be as specific as I can be within my abilities. Like I tried to explain, automation or robotics does not equal savings. This 990 has almost nothing to do with the 500, Maybe the safety button is the same, otherwise they are not similar in any way. You don't just put metal in a CNC and out pops a part. Machines need to either be setup or new ones purchased, fixtures and jigs need to be made. There will be numerous revisions on the parts, and plenty of learning curve on setting up the machines. CNC, robots, dies, fixtures, tooling, all that stuff is super expensive.  I don't know how to better explain it.

I am not a bean counter or an engineer, I'm a technician like I said, so I don't get to see the full numbers. Again a model such as a 500 is not comparable in any way. They have decades of numbers to draw off of where they can better forecast the market. You don't have that on a brand new model. Plus you are forgetting the other people in the equation. Again, I have never worked for a firearms company, but I would have to assume Mossberg already had orders from a distributor before starting production. Those guns are then marked up so the distributor can make a profit as well, before it ends up at a gun store, who again has to mark it up to make a profit. You can't point your finger at Mossberg and blame only them for the price. There's a minimum of 3 companies making a profit on a Mossberg gun, Mossberg, distributor, and gun store.

The price of a 500 has nothing to do with the price of the 990. Automation does not guarantee lower costs. The 990 can not, and will never be $500.

Originally Posted By mak0:

Yeah there's not too many options but Mesa Tactical has a 930/940 version of the Urbino. Has it been confirmed that 990 will accept 930/940 stocks?

Originally Posted By mitch_barrie:

Hi there, I just rejoined Arfcom after losing the details of my original login from 20 years ago, and just saw this thread.

I am with Mesa Tactical and we already have a Mossberg 990 (serial number 596!).  I'm not on here representing Mesa Tactical, but we have the shotgun and I thought I could answer a few questions.

The receiver is something completely new.  Our SureShell shell carriers* and Truckee forend for the Mossberg 940 fit on it, but we do not make a stock that will fit.  Mossberg machined the rear of the receiver so it can accept Mossberg 500 straight stocks (the Shockwave grip is made for a Mossberg 590).  This does not mean it can accept Mossberg 500 pistol grip stocks, because the Mossberg 500 is almost unique among shotguns in that the trigger guard is about 3/4 inch from the rear of the receiver, while with most shotguns the trigger guard is right at the rack of the receiver.  So this is a sort of hybrid receiver that can accept Mossberg 500 straight stocks, but not pistol grip stocks.  Mesa Tactical does not make a stock that will fit this shotgun.

Nonethless, I already bought a wooden Mossberg 500 straight stock and the plan is to Form 1 ours and install the stock as soon as I can get the receiver engraved.  I'm supposed to make a video about this in the next week or so.


* The top-mount carriers bolt right on, and so do the sidemount carriers, but we haven't tested the sidemount carriers to see if the shotgun will actually cycle when installed.  So we don't know yet whether the sidemount carriers are actually compatible.

Originally Posted By bodybagger:

So have you put many rounds through it yet?
What's the price going to be on these?

Originally Posted By mitch_barrie:

We haven't fired it and we aren't going to until we get a stamp and put a proper stock on it.  Shooting the semi-automatic Remington Tac-13 with the Shockwave grip was really unpleasant.

We found ours on Gunbroker from KAG Arms of Littleton MA (!) for $962.00 plus tax and shipping.

Originally Posted By Capt_Destro:

Even with the push pull technique it was bad? If anything I hear the semi auto version has less recoil than the Tac 14/Shockwave.

Originally Posted By RacingOrange:
Is this just a 940 Pro Tactical without a stock?

Originally Posted By NachoDip:
Looks like I’ll have mine here shortly. Counting down. The stock and pistol grip thing is disappointing. I was intending to AOW mine. Looks like that won’t be possible and the state I am in doesn’t allow SBS.

Originally Posted By 545Fan:
I SBS's mine and put a red dot on it.  Fun toy with a stock fitted.

Originally Posted By sandboxmedic:



How is it working?  I'm leery of Mossberg autos but I really want a semi auto SBS.