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9/28/2015 7:37:26 AM EDT
I'm in the process of building my first 308 platform AR.  I'm using an 18" Mid-Length barrel from Ballistic Advantage and Aero receivers.  I'm looking to develop a load that will work well enough for range use out to 600 yards.  I realize the .308 platform can exceed that, but I just don't have access to ranges that go beyond 600.  Here are my primary questions:


  • I want a case that is readily available and reliable.  In .223, I have no problems spending the time doing all the case prep on LC brass.  Would there be an advantage to using something other than military brass for my purpose?

  • I currently load a 150gr SP for 30-06 in my Garand.  Is there a bullet weight that would suffice for both platforms without excessive cost or possibility of feeding issues?  I'm thinking that 168 may work for 600 yards in an AR-10, but may be too heavy for the Garand.  If the compromise isn't worth it, I'll just continue to use my current 150gr bullet for the Garand loads. (Also, my Garand has the Garand Gear gas plug.)

  • I would prefer a bullet that is available in bulk or at least fairly inexpensive.  I'm not chasing accuracy here, but rather a good performing round that I can afford to shoot.

  • I'm planning on using IMR-4064.  I've used it in my Garand.  It's readily available, and I don't care about metering.  When loading rifle rounds like this, I use an auto trickler to dispense powder.  Any reason not to use 4064 for my .308 loads as well?



Thanks for any helpful suggestions you may have.  Let me know if I need to provide clarification on any points.
9/28/2015 8:49:47 AM EDT
[#1]
If its 1:10 twist, 168 gr and up for bullets. Hornady, berger, smk will do the job. Buy a box of each to see which ammo your barrel likes.
9/28/2015 9:06:06 AM EDT
[#2]
Quoted:
I'm in the process of building my first 308 platform AR.  I'm using an 18" Mid-Length barrel from Ballistic Advantage and Aero receivers.  I'm looking to develop a load that will work well enough for range use out to 600 yards.  I realize the .308 platform can exceed that, but I just don't have access to ranges that go beyond 600.  Here are my primary questions:


  • I want a case that is readily available and reliable.  In .223, I have no problems spending the time doing all the case prep on LC brass.  Would there be an advantage to using something other than military brass for my purpose?

  • I currently load a 150gr SP for 30-06 in my Garand.  Is there a bullet weight that would suffice for both platforms without excessive cost or possibility of feeding issues?  I'm thinking that 168 may work for 600 yards in an AR-10, but may be too heavy for the Garand.  If the compromise isn't worth it, I'll just continue to use my current 150gr bullet for the Garand loads. (Also, my Garand has the Garand Gear gas plug.)

  • I would prefer a bullet that is available in bulk or at least fairly inexpensive.  I'm not chasing accuracy here, but rather a good performing round that I can afford to shoot.

  • I'm planning on using IMR-4064.  I've used it in my Garand.  It's readily available, and I don't care about metering.  When loading rifle rounds like this, I use an auto trickler to dispense powder.  Any reason not to use 4064 for my .308 loads as well?



Thanks for any helpful suggestions you may have.  Let me know if I need to provide clarification on any points.
View Quote


If you are not chasing accuracy, why the desire to shoot at 600 yards?

600 yards is a long way and a cheap-bulk bullet may be extremely disappointing at that distance.
9/28/2015 9:20:23 AM EDT
[#3]
Winchester case
Federal 210M primer
168 gr Sierra MatchKing
42 gr IMR4064

Seating depth (OAL) to your preference but start with a magazine length load.

9/28/2015 9:23:31 AM EDT
[#4]
Yes, I knew I forgot something, it is a 1:10 twist.

I'm not looking to purchase a cheap bullet, but I'd rather stay in the cheaper end of the spectrum.  I don't consider 600 yards a long distance.  I can reliably put 62gr bulk bullets out of my 16" .223 on torso sized steel at 500 yards with a 4x scope and a sling.  I'm sure that 600 yards with better glass and a bipod with a .308 round will make that easily attainable as well.
9/28/2015 10:46:39 AM EDT
[#5]
I just bought a bunch of pulldown 4064 and I'm heading in the same direction you are.  I bought some Nosler custom competition bullets on sale (168 or 169gr) and have some 175's to try in the AR10.  Many older shooter's I competed with used 4064 and 169gr bullets in the Garand.  They were probably not aware of all the new powder choices and there are more now though.  I am hoping my untried Lee Perfect Powder Measure works with the 4064 or I'll just trickle the charges.  I don't fire that much .30 cal. ammo in a year's time.
9/28/2015 10:52:51 AM EDT
[#6]
My experience early on with a Lee Perfect Powder measure and 4064 was not great.  I finally just broke down and ordered a power tricker/scale combo.  While it trickles up a funnel pan, I seat a bullet.  It's not screaming fast, but I don't really want it to be.  The timing works out pretty well most of the time, unless it throws a high charge.  I'm thinking of trying some of the Hornady 168 HPBT.  I can get them in a 100 pack to try, then buy them in bulk if they work out.  Seems there are quite a few that are working a load for these in the Garand with a fair amount of success as well.  Good luck with your Nosler load.  I think they would make an excellent choice as well.
9/28/2015 11:08:10 AM EDT
[#7]
The Nosler 155 grain Custom Competition will do excellent with about that much powder in a LC case.
9/28/2015 2:09:43 PM EDT
[#8]
After you find your load with 4064, you may want to try 8208 XBR since its a faster burning powder than 4064 and you have a short barrel. Been using 4064 for a couple years with great success though. Easy to find too.
9/28/2015 2:26:57 PM EDT
[#9]
Quote History
Quoted:
After you find your load with 4064, you may want to try 8208 XBR since its a faster burning powder than 4064 and you have a short barrel. Been using 4064 for a couple years with great success though. Easy to find too.
View Quote


That's part of the reason I'd like to stick with 4064.  Readily available and I've got a fair amount on hand.  I'm trying to simplify my stockpile to more commonly used and available components when it makes sense.
9/28/2015 2:47:14 PM EDT
[#10]
I think I know where everyone stands on projectiles and powder.  Any negative to using LC brass?  I really don't mind the brass prep as it gives me multiple opportunities for inspection.
9/28/2015 3:48:38 PM EDT
[#11]
Quote History
Quoted:
I think I know where everyone stands on projectiles and powder.  Any negative to using LC brass?  I really don't mind the brass prep as it gives me multiple opportunities for inspection.
View Quote

I use LC brass in my military calibers. It works well.
9/28/2015 4:57:02 PM EDT
[#12]
Quote History
Quoted:
Yes, I knew I forgot something, it is a 1:10 twist.

I'm not looking to purchase a cheap bullet, but I'd rather stay in the cheaper end of the spectrum.  I don't consider 600 yards a long distance.  I can reliably put 62gr bulk bullets out of my 16" .223 on torso sized steel at 500 yards with a 4x scope and a sling.  I'm sure that 600 yards with better glass and a bipod with a .308 round will make that easily attainable as well.
View Quote


Then ya might want to check this out, Blems and Over-runs.

You have to check back often as they only come up during a production run.

http://www.shootersproshop.com/
9/28/2015 5:17:26 PM EDT
[#13]
Quote History
Quoted:


Then ya might want to check this out, Blems and Over-runs.

You have to check back often as they only come up during a production run.

http://www.shootersproshop.com/
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Quoted:
Quoted:
Yes, I knew I forgot something, it is a 1:10 twist.

I'm not looking to purchase a cheap bullet, but I'd rather stay in the cheaper end of the spectrum.  I don't consider 600 yards a long distance.  I can reliably put 62gr bulk bullets out of my 16" .223 on torso sized steel at 500 yards with a 4x scope and a sling.  I'm sure that 600 yards with better glass and a bipod with a .308 round will make that easily attainable as well.


Then ya might want to check this out, Blems and Over-runs.

You have to check back often as they only come up during a production run.

http://www.shootersproshop.com/



This... your time reloading is money.... and using a average grade bullet will get it done, but at what cost ?

Just a quick look around shows Hornady 150gr FMJ  ( my choice for a inexpensive bullet ) for 20 cents / bullet.... at the same shop... 168gr SMK is 32 cents / bullet.... powder etc costs will be about the same... so , for 12 cents more per round.... you can have a Known, everything else is compared to bullet.... ( as far as accuracy is concerned )... heck even the Newest greatest latest 168gr TMK is only 36 cents per bullet....( Much better BC )

Also... if you aren't in a hurry.... Christmas sale prices are just around the corner... so all sorts of good deals should be had. ( Last year I got 4k of 75gr BTHP Horn. for $400 bucks... )

What I am saying is... if you are going to spend your time developing a 600yd reload.... at the very least use a known good bullet.... and spend your time wisely. ( No offense intended at all ) I learned a long time ago that my time is really money.... and that if I am going to reload... I should use at least a very good bullet.

9/28/2015 5:35:57 PM EDT
[#14]
My version of a budget bullet would be the Hornady 168 HPBT which I can get for around $0.24 a piece. I guess everyone has a different definition of "budget".
9/28/2015 5:36:25 PM EDT
[#15]
Quote History
Quoted:


That's part of the reason I'd like to stick with 4064.  Readily available and I've got a fair amount on hand.  I'm trying to simplify my stockpile to more commonly used and available components when it makes sense.
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Quoted:
Quoted:
After you find your load with 4064, you may want to try 8208 XBR since its a faster burning powder than 4064 and you have a short barrel. Been using 4064 for a couple years with great success though. Easy to find too.


That's part of the reason I'd like to stick with 4064.  Readily available and I've got a fair amount on hand.  I'm trying to simplify my stockpile to more commonly used and available components when it makes sense.

Same here to simplify. Seems 4064 is always in stock, which is a good powder. The new 4166 is as good as 4064 and about the same price. Always on the shelf too. Good luck.
9/28/2015 5:39:53 PM EDT
[#16]
Quote History
Quoted:
Any negative to using LC brass?  I really don't mind the brass prep as it gives me multiple opportunities for inspection.
View Quote

I only use commercial brass in my bolt 308 and LC for my semi. You can load max powder in commercial brass vs LC brass which comes in handy when needed on some bullets for stretching out the yardage.
9/28/2015 8:42:31 PM EDT
[#17]
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Quoted:
Winchester case
Federal 210M primer
168 gr Sierra MatchKing
42 gr IMR4064

Seating depth (OAL) to your preference but start with a magazine length load.

View Quote


This is a known accuracy load using these components.

If you use Lake City brass lower the charge slightly.
9/28/2015 9:01:19 PM EDT
[#18]
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Quoted:
... your time reloading is money....
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I don't understand why some people say this.  Reloading is a hobby.  If you are home reloading, instead of being at work earning money, you have a problem but that problem isn't reloading.
9/28/2015 10:03:15 PM EDT
[#19]
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Quoted:



I don't understand why some people say this.  Reloading is a hobby.  If you are home reloading, instead of being at work earning money, you have a problem but that problem isn't reloading.
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Quoted:
Quoted:
... your time reloading is money....



I don't understand why some people say this.  Reloading is a hobby.  If you are home reloading, instead of being at work earning money, you have a problem but that problem isn't reloading.


Reloading is therapy!  Thanks for all the advice so far,  guys!
9/28/2015 11:48:55 PM EDT
[#20]
4064 is a great powder for the garand and your lr308 The garand can shoot up to 175gr dont use anything over 180. Remember not to use regular 30/06 data for your garand. I use 175gr cc with imr4895 for my garand i use that load out to 600yd for high power comps.

check out the cmp forums for more info on reloading for the garand those guys know a lot.
9/29/2015 10:50:21 AM EDT
[#21]
I'd been shooting a M118LR clone load for years, but wanted something with a bit less recoil, using ball powder that I could run quickly through my 550B, and also that might not get the brass chewed up quite so much in gas guns:  specifically a SCAR 17 and a Colt 901.

Hornady 150FMJ
Ramshot TAC 40.3
LC Match
CCI 400 200
seated mid-cannelure
LFCD

This load is just over MOA in these 2 rifles, using a 4x ACOG and an NXS 1-4, has a noticeably softer recoil impulse, and runs at about 2425fps and 46k psi in these 16" barrels.  It's at node 7 for 16" barrels, which is mild/slow.  Brass is not hammered, and TAC meters on the Dillon beautifully.

I already had a bunch of TAC for Mk262 clones, so I wanted to try that.
9/29/2015 1:36:10 PM EDT
[#22]
What kind of distance are you reaching out to with those 150's?  I was using those in my Garand loads, but I switched to the 150 SP instead after finding better accuracy.
9/29/2015 8:13:41 PM EDT
[#23]
Quote History
Quoted:



I don't understand why some people say this.  Reloading is a hobby.  If you are home reloading, instead of being at work earning money, you have a problem but that problem isn't reloading.
View Quote View All Quotes
View All Quotes
Quote History
Quoted:
Quoted:
... your time reloading is money....



I don't understand why some people say this.  Reloading is a hobby.  If you are home reloading, instead of being at work earning money, you have a problem but that problem isn't reloading.


LOl... there was a time when I had all sorts of free time..... not so much anymore.

I do still consider it a hobby, but have moved into spending that time loading for accuracy.... not bulk.

Even my trigger time is valuable time. ( Again all sorts of chores make less time for hobbies )

I spent a lot of money developing loads using average bullets... finally I realized that those same bullets were never going to give me the accuracy I was chasing.....

So I am saying using your time to develop a great load, takes as much time as loading a "ok" load.

There are plenty of good starting loads for great bullets, why not use that to your advantage.... in the long run it will be cheaper.


The previous post makes sense... a mild ball powder 150gr , easy on brass load.... Thanks for sharing Colt933 !
9/29/2015 10:00:25 PM EDT
[#24]
Quote History
Quoted:
What kind of distance are you reaching out to with those 150's?  I was using those in my Garand loads, but I switched to the 150 SP instead after finding better accuracy.
View Quote



Only 200 yards, but groups are around 3" or less at this range, and groups are smaller than the aiming points/reticles in the optics at this distance.  I suspect I could shoot smaller groups with a target scope.  

It is what it is:  a mild, accurate, reliable, economical plinking load.  It's not a long range match load with the finest components.

9/29/2015 10:45:49 PM EDT
[#25]
Although my "new-ish" semi isn't an AR-10, the load I've found works for one.  I purchased an M1A, and the best friend purchased an AR-10.  Headspace and seating depth was the only difference for each of us.

****  I'm not promoting the retailer in desciption posted below.  Just dictating prices, since cost for bullet is concern from OP's third comment.  ****

As for bullets, the Nosler 168 gr. HPBT Custom Competition fit the bill.  Powder Valley sells the 1,000 rd. box for $231.67.  I purchased a few once I found my load.

Same distributor, I stocked up on IMR 4064.  And, yes... I will be shooting for a while.

Since I decided to try and save cash on my need for primers, I went into a large bulk-purchase for the CCI #34's with a couple of local fellows.  We purchased enough to get the cost per 1,000 down to $18.12.

As for brass, I've purchased all military once-fired for the caliber.  There are plenty of retailers out there, so there isn't need in mentioning of a particular company.  If you have a supplier you are confident in and trust... have at it.

What works in my rifle with 22" barrel w/ 1:11" twist ~
-  LC Brass trimmed to 2.005"
-  CCI #34 Primer
-  42.0 gr. of IMR 4064
-  Nosler 168 gr. CC seated at 2.820"

Hope that helps.  Good luck and have fun with your new project.
9/30/2015 7:52:58 AM EDT
[#26]
Excellent advice and thank you for the reference load data.  Always nice to have more data points to compare to when developing a load.
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