Armory Sponsor
Posted: 11/4/2010 5:55:44 AM EDT
| which would you get for the same price? |
|
I have an older Wingmaster that I inherited from my Grandfather and a newer Express that was my first gun about 10 years ago. The Wingmaster that I have has a field barrel that has an Improved cylinder choke, cannot change it out. My Express has the same length barrel with the Rem Choke system. There are advantages to being able to change chokes with the Express but I rarely change them out.
As an overall quality comparison the Wingmaster wins hands down IMO. If the used Wingmaster is in good condition; I would choose it in a heartbeat over the new Express. What is the purpose of this shotgun going to be? |
|
I think I've had every 870 there is... and while I don't feel the need for another police model, I am drawn to the metal trigger guard.
I have a gorgeous wingmaster (the pre-police model) with rifle sights. and now I have the chance to get a slightly beat one, the plan would be a bead barrel, wilson extension kit and hogue tamer grip. a back up for the apartment, I guess my baby 
|
|
Quoted:
Wingmaster- better quality firearm. The Express is a budget-friendly gun with cheaper manufacturing and parts. This myth keeps getting propagated. 
The express is not some poorly manufactured gun. The only difference besides a different finish is (I believe) the extractor. And all 870s might use the same extractor at this point. I can't be sure. My point is not to get hung up on that list that circulates here it seems like every day. |
|
I had an older 870 Wingmaster for years. Just picked up a 20GA Express Youth for HD, with rebates and gift cards after the sale, it was 300 out the door. Honestly, after all the comments I was shocked out how smooth the action is. I have racked mossbergs and they can be clumbsy and rough. My Express seems go to go and I'll send hundres down the tube to get er' ready.
I did see, perhaps the same 870 the OP is discussing, and was tempted. But it's a 12. Otherwise, I might have been tempted. But unless my Express takes a bad turn, which I doubt, I would have regretted buying used. And I have only bought 2 new guns in over 20 years, so I likey used guns 
|
|
Quoted:
Quoted:
Wingmaster- better quality firearm. The Express is a budget-friendly gun with cheaper manufacturing and parts. This myth keeps getting propagated.
The express is not some poorly manufactured gun. The only difference besides a different finish is (I believe) the extractor. And all 870s might use the same extractor at this point. I can't be sure. My point is not to get hung up on that list that circulates here it seems like every day. I have both guns here with me. Both guns are fine (I wingshoot with my Express because I have more choke options available) and will put a wad downrange. In order to stay competitive with other manufactures, Remington cut some corners off of their top of the line Wingmaster. The Express action is much rougher than the Wingmaster and there is plastic on the Express. Here is a list of some of the differences link |
|
The Wingmaster is the superior gun if they are the same money and in similar shape. I have had both and will always go for the Wingmaster, even for more money than the Express. Here is a list of the bigger differences:
Wingmaster: Pros: -All forged metal-No plastic, cast metal or MIM extractor or trigger guard -Superior finish-They usually have a nice old school blued or parkerized (LE version). They used chemicals in the finish process that are expensive to get rid, strictly regulated and are a pain to use. They is why you rarely see the deep blue old school bluing done on production guns anymore. The vast majority of the industry has moved away from it and over to matted blued or painted finishes. -Nicer wood stock set -No j-safety Cons: -No flex-feed shell lifter. The flex-feed follower is a U-shaped cut that allows relief if a shell gets under the bolt and over the lifter. The main cause of this malfunction if loading a shell in the mag tube backwards. It is usually caused when shooting fast or under stress and loading shells from a pocket or box. But I have purposely caused this malfunction in my Wingmaster and it did not bind up my gun. I just had to use more force than usual. -Less 'tactical' models with shorter barrels-For the most part there are usually either bird guns or LE trade ins. While the plain, non-ribbed bird barrels are easy to cut down, there isn't alot of 18 or 20" guns out there. So you can't just walk into any gunshop and pick up a 18" Wingmaster with a factory barrel. So it takes a little more looking around or creative shopping to get exactly what you want. Express: Pros: -There is just about any version you want for sale (18" defensive to 28" vent bird gun) and it is in stock at just about every gunshop. -Flex-feed feature is standard on the Express line. Weather you need it or not, it is there. Cons: -Cheap finish that is prone to corrosion. The matte blued (it is not parkerized) Express finish doesn't hold up well to humid environments. The good side is that the matte finish does hold gun grease well. So it is fairly easy to protect. -Cast/MIM extractor. While they are not known as a huge weak spot, a forged one is better for the same money. The current 'Police' guns have a different extractor installed in it compared to the Express version. -Plastic trigger housing. Again, not a weak point (how many broken trigger housing have you seen?), but I rather have a metal one for the same money. -J-safety. While it is easy and fairly cheap to replace, I really don't care for them. Again, the Express line is not bad. In fact, if all I could get is an Express model, I would be happy with it. But for the same or slightly more money, I prefer the Wingmaster. They were made before there was a huge emphasis on making production cheaper and easier. Lastly, you can't make a USAF clone with an Express model: 
|
|
Correct Switchh- you get it and most of these guys don't. I stated in my post that there is only one part different in the Express and Wingmaster. Well, that one part and the trigger plate housing. The part is the Extractor and it cost $14 and the one on the Express cost $ 7.80. So there is a $6.20 parts difference. ALL THE OTHER PARTS ARE THE SAME PEOPLE... except the Wingmaster has the cast metal trigger plate housing and the Express the polymer which is more durable. Go to www.aiptactical.com and click on the red link "Build your Weapon" find the link to Ruger and watch the drop test on the cast aluminum trigger guard and the Polymer. I use the polymer in all my personal 870's. All my Alaska clients insist on the polymer as they have had to many metal ones break in that cold up up there.
So, all you guys that say the Wingmaster is built with better parts are wrong. Go to www.remington.com and down load the Remington parts list and look. There are no different parts for the Wingmaster people. Why is this? BECAUSE ALL 870'S ARE BUILT WITH THE SAME PARTS - Even the Marine Magnum put the parts are Electro Nickly treated on that model. The Exceptions are the P has one additional spring that cost $3.20 different. Why do you guys keep giving incorrect information on these web sites. You simply go to parts list and see your wrong and stop this mess. You will fing on one left shell latch, one right shell latch, one locking block, one slide, one trigger, one hammer, one ejector, one ejector spring and so on and so on. Exceptions are for the Super Magnum and different parts for different "Guages" not different "Models" . And yes, there are different finishes but they are the same barrels and receivers. The biggest difference is in stocks. The Express comes with a either a synthetic stock made by Speed Feed for Remington or comes with a laminate wood stock. Wingmasters come with high dollar stocks, a blued finish and some with fancy engraving. Did I mention they have all the same parts as the Express except one? Maybe I did. Guys come here to get facts not unfounded, untrue opinions. So any reader simply has to go to the parts list and look and they will understand. As for the guys that have posted the wrong information, please don't be offended or hold it against me that I corrected it. I know these weapons and I have simply stated the facts. Learn from it as I did. I learned at the Remington factory in Ilion NY by sitting in class for a week and return again for another week. I learned by working on all models and by ordering parts for them and last year alone I ordered over $80,000.00 in parts alone from Remington. Others here may know the weapon and the parts that go in them aswell but no one knows them better. I benifit nothing by tell the truth here other then to do the right think for the OP who asked a ligitimate question and should get a correct answer. Let your wallet and you wants be your guide when buying any model 870. Just understand what you are paying for. Me, I have 8 personal 870's and plan on building two more. Kind of like a bag of Golf Clubs to me, an 870 for every need. |
|
Quoted:
Correct Switchh- you get it and most of these guys don't. I stated in my post that there is only one part different in the Express and Wingmaster. Well, that one part and the trigger plate housing. The part is the Extractor and it cost $14 and the one on the Express cost $ 7.80. So there is a $6.20 parts difference. ALL THE OTHER PARTS ARE THE SAME PEOPLE... except the Wingmaster has the cast metal trigger plate housing and the Express the polymer which is more durable. Go to www.aiptactical.com and click on the red link "Build your Weapon" find the link to Ruger and watch the drop test on the cast aluminum trigger guard and the Polymer. I use the polymer in all my personal 870's. All my Alaska clients insist on the polymer as they have had to many metal ones break in that cold up up there. So, all you guys that say the Wingmaster is built with better parts are wrong. Go to www.remington.com and down load the Remington parts list and look. There are no different parts for the Wingmaster people. Why is this? BECAUSE ALL 870'S ARE BUILT WITH THE SAME PARTS - Even the Marine Magnum put the parts are Electro Nickly treated on that model. The Exceptions are the P has one additional spring that cost $3.20 different. Why do you guys keep giving incorrect information on these web sites. You simply go to parts list and see your wrong and stop this mess. You will fing on one left shell latch, one right shell latch, one locking block, one slide, one trigger, one hammer, one ejector, one ejector spring and so on and so on. Exceptions are for the Super Magnum and different parts for different "Guages" not different "Models" . And yes, there are different finishes but they are the same barrels and receivers. The biggest difference is in stocks. The Express comes with a either a synthetic stock made by Speed Feed for Remington or comes with a laminate wood stock. Wingmasters come with high dollar stocks, a blued finish and some with fancy engraving. Did I mention they have all the same parts as the Express except one? Maybe I did. Guys come here to get facts not unfounded, untrue opinions. So any reader simply has to go to the parts list and look and they will understand. As for the guys that have posted the wrong information, please don't be offended or hold it against me that I corrected it. I know these weapons and I have simply stated the facts. Learn from it as I did. I learned at the Remington factory in Ilion NY by sitting in class for a week and return again for another week. I learned by working on all models and by ordering parts for them and last year alone I ordered over $80,000.00 in parts alone from Remington. Others here may know the weapon and the parts that go in them aswell but no one knows them better. I benifit nothing by tell the truth here other then to do the right think for the OP who asked a ligitimate question and should get a correct answer. Let your wallet and you wants be your guide when buying any model 870. Just understand what you are paying for. Me, I have 8 personal 870's and plan on building two more. Kind of like a bag of Golf Clubs to me, an 870 for every need. Thank you aippi for actually being able to articulate your point instead of pulling a to disagree with someone.
So a high dollar stock, a blued finish and some with fancy engraving + cast metal trigger plate housing = $400? If true Remington is screwing some people. I appreciate the corrections, but is the link I posted from TFL total crap? P.S. No offense taken, we are all here to learn and openly discuss our POV. I am always willing to learn from those more knowledgable. |
|
Quoted:
Quoted:
Correct Switchh- you get it and most of these guys don't. I stated in my post that there is only one part different in the Express and Wingmaster. Well, that one part and the trigger plate housing. The part is the Extractor and it cost $14 and the one on the Express cost $ 7.80. So there is a $6.20 parts difference. ALL THE OTHER PARTS ARE THE SAME PEOPLE... except the Wingmaster has the cast metal trigger plate housing and the Express the polymer which is more durable. Go to www.aiptactical.com and click on the red link "Build your Weapon" find the link to Ruger and watch the drop test on the cast aluminum trigger guard and the Polymer. I use the polymer in all my personal 870's. All my Alaska clients insist on the polymer as they have had to many metal ones break in that cold up up there. So, all you guys that say the Wingmaster is built with better parts are wrong. Go to www.remington.com and down load the Remington parts list and look. There are no different parts for the Wingmaster people. Why is this? BECAUSE ALL 870'S ARE BUILT WITH THE SAME PARTS - Even the Marine Magnum put the parts are Electro Nickly treated on that model. The Exceptions are the P has one additional spring that cost $3.20 different. Why do you guys keep giving incorrect information on these web sites. You simply go to parts list and see your wrong and stop this mess. You will fing on one left shell latch, one right shell latch, one locking block, one slide, one trigger, one hammer, one ejector, one ejector spring and so on and so on. Exceptions are for the Super Magnum and different parts for different "Guages" not different "Models" . And yes, there are different finishes but they are the same barrels and receivers. The biggest difference is in stocks. The Express comes with a either a synthetic stock made by Speed Feed for Remington or comes with a laminate wood stock. Wingmasters come with high dollar stocks, a blued finish and some with fancy engraving. Did I mention they have all the same parts as the Express except one? Maybe I did. Guys come here to get facts not unfounded, untrue opinions. So any reader simply has to go to the parts list and look and they will understand. As for the guys that have posted the wrong information, please don't be offended or hold it against me that I corrected it. I know these weapons and I have simply stated the facts. Learn from it as I did. I learned at the Remington factory in Ilion NY by sitting in class for a week and return again for another week. I learned by working on all models and by ordering parts for them and last year alone I ordered over $80,000.00 in parts alone from Remington. Others here may know the weapon and the parts that go in them aswell but no one knows them better. I benifit nothing by tell the truth here other then to do the right think for the OP who asked a ligitimate question and should get a correct answer. Let your wallet and you wants be your guide when buying any model 870. Just understand what you are paying for. Me, I have 8 personal 870's and plan on building two more. Kind of like a bag of Golf Clubs to me, an 870 for every need. Thank you aippi for actually being able to articulate your point instead of pulling a to disagree with someone.
So a high dollar stock, a blued finish and some with fancy engraving + cast metal trigger plate housing = $400? If true Remington is screwing some people. I appreciate the corrections, but is the link I posted from TFL total crap? P.S. No offense taken, we are all here to learn and openly discuss our POV. I am always willing to learn from those more knowledgable. Now you're getting it. People are falling for marketing. |
|
Well not so much marketing as just paying more for some differences they want. If they understand they are the same weapons and are willing to pay for what they want then go for it. I want parkerizing and I parkerize my own weapons but if I wanted parkerizing and could not do it I would buy the 870 Police. If a guy wants a blued 870 with high end furniture then the Wingmaster is worth it to him.
The OP was asking about a used Wingmaster as opposed to a new Express and guys jumped in about how the Wingmaster was built with better parts and stuff and that is just not true. The OP simply needs to understand what he is getting with the used 870 and if he belived the guys posting all that mess he would have been misled. I would take the new Express over the Used Wingmaster any day. I would get the $30 rebate and have a new 870 with a two year warranty. Many guys are just not going to accept what I have said. They are not going to the parts list to look and see that I was right about there Remington makes mostly one part for all models. So, they can continue to believe what they want instead of the facts. God bless America where we are free to do that. I still believe my hair is going to grow back and to hell with anyone that says it is not. |
|
I have an Express, a Police Magnum, and an OLD Police Wingmaster. They are really great shotguns, however the Wingmaster is 2 3/4 only. Sometime I will send the WM to JD to be parkerized as the blue is about 75%. All three pattern very well and all three are slicker than owl snot. The WM does not have a Flex tab shell lifter, but it and the bolt are chrome. The chrome is actually worn througn from it being loaded a gozillion times.
Get what you want, if you want old school cool and don't mind 2 3/4 shells only Wingmaster it is. If you want bases for tacticool death ray, get the Express. |
|
Quoted:
I have an Express, a Police Magnum, and an OLD Police Wingmaster. They are really great shotguns, however the Wingmaster is 2 3/4 only. Sometime I will send the WM to JD to be parkerized as the blue is about 75%. All three pattern very well and all three are slicker than owl snot. The WM does not have a Flex tab shell lifter, but it and the bolt are chrome. The chrome is actually worn througn from it being loaded a gozillion times. Get what you want, if you want old school cool and don't mind 2 3/4 shells only Wingmaster it is. If you want bases for tacticool death ray, get the Express. My only rule of thumb when asked the same question, you going to put 5k + rounds through it a year ? If so get a Wingmaster, if not an Express will do. Do you see Express Shotguns shooting competition trap? |
|
Quoted:
My only rule of thumb when asked the same question, you going to put 5k + rounds through it a year ? If so get a Wingmaster, if not an Express will do. Do you see Express Shotguns shooting competition trap?
They are built on the same receiver with same parts. A Wingmaster will not outlast a Express. The reason you don't see Express 870s the on trap field is because the trap field is full of snobbish assholes that tend to look down on anyone not using a $2,000+ O/U shotgun. I was looked down on because I brought "gasp" a pump-action to shoot trap. The same crowd didn't even like that I brought a 11-87 Premier because it tossed shells on the ground. |
|
Quoted:
Quoted:
My only rule of thumb when asked the same question, you going to put 5k + rounds through it a year ? If so get a Wingmaster, if not an Express will do. Do you see Express Shotguns shooting competition trap?
They are built on the same receiver with same parts. A Wingmaster will not outlast a Express. The reason you don't see Express 870s the on trap field is because the trap field is full of snobbish assholes that tend to look down on anyone not using a $2,000+ O/U shotgun. I was looked down on because I brought "gasp" a pump-action to shoot trap. The same crowd didn't even like that I brought a 11-87 Premier because it tossed shells on the ground. Around here Model 12 pumps are the norm with 870s Wings and upper end trap guns following. I shoot with two very different types of shooters, die hard trap guys with model 12s o/u and trap guns, and then guns that cost more than my truck. The other group usually have 870 Express, Ithicas, Savages and Mossbergs. What I have experienced first hand, the 870 Express have more problems when people try to feed them cheap ammo. I know people who have bought 870 express to shoot trap on the weekends and after extraction problems they both went to Wingmasters. Trap guns need to function as close to %100 of the time as possible while being able to cycle hundreds of rounds of ammo without a total cleaning. This was not what the Express was intended to do, Remington own website states this gun was manufactured for the hunter, I consider a hunter a person who is going to fire the gun on average 100 times a year or less, most of my trap buddies shoot 200+ rounds a weekend. I have not heard of an Express going 15K rounds. Call and ask Remington about shooting thousands of rounds of ammo and see if they recommend the Express. When you cut corners you decrease the reliability of the weapon. On the used market the price gap between the Wing and the Express is around $100, you can find trap grade 870s around $400. %75 of all problems in trap guns are the extractor/ejector.When you replace a machined part with an MIM part the chances of quality control failing during the manufacturing process increase. MIM parts should be as reliable as machined parts as long as they are being inspected properly but as we all know corners are cut and the name of the game is not quality but quanitity. I have never seen a receiver wear out, I have seen them so well used they will destroy fingers when you strip them down. Here is a list of the differences straight from the shotgun forums. When the Grand was still here in Ohio the snobs were out in full force and sometimes they are at the local range but don't let that bother you, they are simply not worth the time. The best advice is get a gun that fits you and you can shoot well. The Express Model has: A plastic trigger group. The dimples in the mag tube and the new style plastic magazine retention system, EXCEPT on the extended magazine versions, which do NOT have the dimples. A rougher finish inside and outside, with machine marks and some burrs left. A rougher, bead blasted blue job. A less polished bore. A two piece sleeved barrel. (not 100% sure about this) Hardwood or synthetic stock, with a sporting-length fore end and pressed-in checkering. The Defense version has 18", Cylinder bore barrel, with a bead sight. The Marine Magnum and Tactical models have plated or polymer finishes. Some Metal Injection Molded (MIM) parts, like the extractor. The Wingmaster has: An aluminum trigger group. The old style magazine retention system. A much smoother finish inside and out, no machine marks or burrs. The Wingmaster gun receives a higher level of inspection and finishing. A fine, commercial polished blue finish. A polished bore. A chrome plated bolt. A one piece barrel. Walnut stocks with the famous "Bowling Pin" finish in gloss or satin. and better checkering. Wide choices in barrel lengths and choke options. No use of MIM parts, the extractor is milled. The Wingmaster is the full top-of-the-line commercial Remington pump gun, and is priced accordingly. |
|
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
My only rule of thumb when asked the same question, you going to put 5k + rounds through it a year ? If so get a Wingmaster, if not an Express will do. Do you see Express Shotguns shooting competition trap?
They are built on the same receiver with same parts. A Wingmaster will not outlast a Express. The reason you don't see Express 870s the on trap field is because the trap field is full of snobbish assholes that tend to look down on anyone not using a $2,000+ O/U shotgun. I was looked down on because I brought "gasp" a pump-action to shoot trap. The same crowd didn't even like that I brought a 11-87 Premier because it tossed shells on the ground. Around here Model 12 pumps are the norm with 870s Wings and upper end trap guns following. I shoot with two very different types of shooters, die hard trap guys with model 12s o/u and trap guns, and then guns that cost more than my truck. The other group usually have 870 Express, Ithicas, Savages and Mossbergs.What I have experienced first hand, the 870 Express have more problems when people try to feed them cheap ammo.The chamber on some express guns can be rough. After a little bit of shooting it smoothes right out. This problem is exacerbated when using cheap Remington 7 1/2 or 8 shot target loads. It has been known to choke up even well-used guns I know people who have bought 870 express to shoot trap on the weekends and after extraction problems they both went to Wingmasters.What extraction problems? The guns are identical in function. On the rare event you have a bad/worn out extractor, buy a new one for 10 bucks. Trap guns need to function as close to %100 of the time as possible while being able to cycle hundreds of rounds of ammo without a total cleaning, This was not what the Express was intended to doI don't know where you're hearing this, but it's simply not true., Remington own website states this gun was manufactured for the hunter, I consider a hunter a person who is going to fire the gun on average 100 times a year or less, most of my trap buddies shoot 200+ rounds a weekend.Your 'classifications' of people means nothing here I have not heard of an Express going 15K rounds.What exactly breaks on the express guns that the wingmaster wouldn't have break? Call and ask Remington about shooting thousands of rounds of ammo and see if they recommend the Express. When you cut corners you decrease the reliability of the weapon. %75 of all problems in trap guns are the extractor/ejector. when you replace this part with a less durable part one will "outlast" the other. I have never seen a receiver wear out so I guess they are just as reliable but this is not the part that fails.They are the SAME. Only difference is external appearance. Here is a list of the differences straight from the shotgun forums. The Express Model has: A plastic trigger group. Proven to be more durable. Check the tests at JDs site with with 10/22 polymer vs metal trigger guard The dimples in the mag tube and the new style plastic magazine retention system, EXCEPT on the extended magazine versions, which do NOT have the dimples.5 minute simple fix if you want to get rid of these A rougher finish inside and outside, with machine marks and some burrs left.Gun still functions the same A rougher, bead blasted blue job.This, in my opinion is the one weak point in the 870. I've known some that the finish holds up fine, and some that it doesn't. I just had my 870 express parkerized after my factory finish had a few problems with rust A less polished bore.Nothing to indicate this alters performance A two piece sleeved barrel. (not 100% sure about this) No, no, no and no. Hardwood or synthetic stock, with a sporting-length fore end and pressed-in checkering.This isn't really a problem. If you don't like the wood for cosmetic reasons, replace it with what you like The Defense version has 18", Cylinder bore barrel, with a bead sight.Yes, they do. How is that problem? The Marine Magnum and Tactical models have plated or polymer finishes.Marine magnum model is nickel plated. No 870s have a polymer finish. The 887 has a polymer finish, but that shotgun is nothing like the 870 Some Metal Injection Molded (MIM) parts, like the extractor.And how many MIM 870 extractors break? The Wingmaster has: An aluminum trigger group.Again, the polymer trigger guards have proven more durable in drop tests. The old style magazine retention system. Easy fix if you want to get rid of the dimples on an express A much smoother finish inside and out, no machine marks or burrs.I have yet to experience any advantages in function between my wingmaster and my express. Though obviously the wingmaster has better wood, and a nice blued finish The Wingmaster gun receives a higher level of inspection and finishing.Finish, yes. I'm not sure about the level of inspection they receive A fine, commercial polished blue finish.Yes, they have a nicer finish. If it's a working gun it doesn't matter how 'pretty' it looks A polished bore.Does this effect performance? A chrome plated bolt.Never heard of an advantage with this A one piece barrel.No, no, and no. ALL 870 BARRELS ARE MANUFACTURED FROM THE SAME PLACE Walnut stocks with the famous "Bowling Pin" finish in gloss or satin. and better checkering.This is purely cosmetic. It's not going to make you shoot 5% faster or anything... Wide choices in barrel lengths and choke options.No. They are the same gun. All parts interchange No use of MIM parts, the extractor is milled.$10 part switch. How many 870 express extractors do you see breaking? The Wingmaster is the full top-of-the-line commercial Remington pump gun, and is priced accordingly. You're paying a lot more for looks and a $10 part. |
|
You have posted quite a long post there. However, much is incorrect and out of date.
All 870's are inspected the same. Do you think for one second Remington would risk the liability of not inspecting any weapon the same? I know this for a fact as I have been to the factory in Ilion on two occasions and have watched the production line for several models. I would ask you, have you been there, have you seen the line and do you know the process first hand. I do. Remington checks every model at every step of the process and these inspections are tracked by the serial number of the weapon and who performed them. The info is scanned into a computer and saved for ever. This way, should any issue come up and any action be brought against them they have records of the inspections. Again, every 870 is inspected the same, even the 870 Police. One piece barrel? All 870 barrels are the same. As they come down the line some go to get blued to be Wingmaster, some go to get parkerized and become police barrels and others get the matte finish and are Express barrels. Same exact barrels except for finish and of course sights, some have vent ribs and some are threaded for Rem Choke. Still the barrel is the same. That is why any 870 barrel of the same gauge fits any 870. Also, Remington has not made 18" barrels for several years. Also, your Wingmaster and Police have MIM parts. Bet you did not know that. And yes the blued finish requires more work as the receiver and barrel have to highly polished. This is cosmetic and has no bearing on the performance of the weapon but does justify the additional cost of the Wingmaster as more work is required to get this finish. Did you know the Special Purpose finish is the same matte finish of the Express? Yep, and a Special purpose barrel cost about $40 to $50 then the exact same Express barrel. Why? Because they polish the steel more before they apply the matte finish. Same barrel, same finish but smoother in appearence. Nothing has been posted here to prove any difference in how these different models perform or how long they last. Only issues anyone has even brought up that has any merit is appearance and that is a given. If you want a nicer finish and higher grade stocks then the Wingmaster is for you. It is a great weapon. I only have parkerized 870's as I am, if I may say so, one of the best parkerizers (is that a word) around and I like the protection it gives to my weapons. If I did want a blued weapon I would jump on a Wingmaster in a heart beat as even though I am Certified on the 870 Police I can work on the Wingmaster (and have) because as I may have mentioned, there is only one 870 and they differ only by finish, furniture and a couple small parts. |
|
Quoted:
The Express Model has: A plastic trigger group. The dimples in the mag tube and the new style plastic magazine retention system, EXCEPT on the extended magazine versions, which do NOT have the dimples. A rougher finish inside and outside, with machine marks and some burrs left. A rougher, bead blasted blue job. A less polished bore. A two piece sleeved barrel. (not 100% sure about this) Hardwood or synthetic stock, with a sporting-length fore end and pressed-in checkering. The Defense version has 18", Cylinder bore barrel, with a bead sight. The Marine Magnum and Tactical models have plated or polymer finishes. Some Metal Injection Molded (MIM) parts, like the extractor. The Wingmaster has: An aluminum trigger group. The old style magazine retention system. A much smoother finish inside and out, no machine marks or burrs. The Wingmaster gun receives a higher level of inspection and finishing. A fine, commercial polished blue finish. A polished bore. A chrome plated bolt. A one piece barrel. Walnut stocks with the famous "Bowling Pin" finish in gloss or satin. and better checkering. Wide choices in barrel lengths and choke options. No use of MIM parts, the extractor is milled. The Wingmaster is the full top-of-the-line commercial Remington pump gun, and is priced accordingly. I can totally see where all this will make or break a gun as a trap gun.
Two piece barrel? Really? Where do you find nuggets of wisdom? |
|
Quoted:
Quoted:
I have an Express, a Police Magnum, and an OLD Police Wingmaster. They are really great shotguns, however the Wingmaster is 2 3/4 only. Sometime I will send the WM to JD to be parkerized as the blue is about 75%. All three pattern very well and all three are slicker than owl snot. The WM does not have a Flex tab shell lifter, but it and the bolt are chrome. The chrome is actually worn througn from it being loaded a gozillion times. Get what you want, if you want old school cool and don't mind 2 3/4 shells only Wingmaster it is. If you want bases for tacticool death ray, get the Express. My only rule of thumb when asked the same question, you going to put 5k + rounds through it a year ? If so get a Wingmaster, if not an Express will do. Do you see Express Shotguns shooting competition trap? No, and I do not see the beautiful trap guns at SD training classes or in Police Cruisers..... Needs and purpose.....
|
|
Gratuitous non-relevant unsolicited pictures of my shotguns. All Remington 870, All AWESOME.
870 Police (This one needs and deserves a new finish) 
870 Express MAGNUM (Yes, that is a GunCat treated barrel) Dimples removes, detent added to barrel ring, Wilson extension, Police springs and small parts done by me with parts and tech support from JD.
870 Police IC bore, polished the bore with a drill, bronze brush wrapped in 0000 steel wool and soaked in flitz took all of 10 minutes...... Bore looks like it was chromed and now it likes all buckshot and shoots better patterns (smaller, more round) Remington bulk pack slugs are POA / POI out to 25 yards (as far as I have tested...) I have not tried Fed LE Flite Control wad buck or slugs as the combined awesomeness would knock the world off it's axis...Just kidding they shoot really well also.... 
|
|
Quoted:
i will say i havent seen any complaints of shells sticking in the police models like i have seen about the express...but i still have 2 express's My P fails to eject Federal slug hulls (Truball). Haven't tried many other brands so who knows what else it will fail on. I sighted it in tonight with 1oz Winchester slugs and the rear sight had to be moved to the last hash mark on the rear sight because the windage was so far off. This is the 2nd barrel I've bought straight from Remington, I got rid of the 1st one because it did the same thing, I even had to drift the front sight to get it zeroed at 50 yds. Meanwhile my old Express works like a top. This Police model has just left a bad taste in my mouth, considering it is supposed to be "top of the line". I guess I should just get rid of it after deer season before I actually NEED to use it and it gets me killed because it jams or falls apart. But my experience seems to be unique, guess I just got a lemon. |
|
I was looking to set up an 870 for personal use that cloned the 870p which rides in my cruiser trunk... After some research I snagged the springs, milled extractor and the 870p (metal) trigger group from Midway. Then I went and grabbed the 870 express tactical... I'll be polishing the chamber and bore a bit, but it already ran a few hundred shells without issue.
Stock set will be replaced with a Knoxx set and the finish will last until it wears.... I'll get it parked at that point. As it stands, I was able to build an 870p "clone" of my duty gun for far less than buying a new 870p. 
It probably helped that Midway had the trigger set on clearance. Main reason I needed an 870? I kept having to look for the safety on my old 500. 
|
|
Quoted:
Quoted:
Wingmaster- better quality firearm. The Express is a budget-friendly gun with cheaper manufacturing and parts. This myth keeps getting propagated.
The express is not some poorly manufactured gun. The only difference besides a different finish is (I believe) the extractor. And all 870s might use the same extractor at this point. I can't be sure. My point is not to get hung up on that list that circulates here it seems like every day. No, but the cosmetics, really, really suck! Really! |
|
Quoted:
I would get the new Express since it is new and has a two year warranty. They are the same weapon except for finish and furniture and one small part so no reason to pay the same for a used weapon when you can get a new one for the same price. New does not mean better. And who really needs a warranty on an 870? Serious question. Perhaps the new ones do, but the old ones I have hunted and my friends have hunted are nearly indestructible. Guns that are left sitting in the bottom of boats overnight, only to freeze to the bottom in a mix of blood, water and duck feathers. The next morning they are dunked in a Mississippi delta swamp and then they start blasting ducks again. Our record for such abuse is three years. At the beginning of the fourth season, one started to be a bit difficult to pump. So we actually took it apart,cleaned, and lubed it. It runs slick as snot now. While they may not be very pretty, they still run 100% of the time. A two year warranty is not worth the $150-200 premium of a new gun over an used one. |
Armory Sponsor