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[ARCHIVED THREAD] - New Mini-14 RR Accuracy???? (Page 1 of 2)
Posted: 7/5/2007 12:55:01 PM EDT
| I have heard that when Ruger re-tooled for the ranch rifles starting in 04 it corrected some of the accuracy issues? Does anyone have any information on the newer ranch rifles from 04 to present? I use to own a older mini-14 and 4" at 100yrds was about it after the barrel heated up. thanks |
Most of the new 5.56mm AKs from Arsenal will do that well (some even better - especially with optics and Federal Gold Medal .223 Match ammo) - and they only have a 16.5" thin barrel. |
What kind of bbl do you think Minis have? |
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The only rumor I have heard to that effect is in Rugers advertisements. Maybe yes maybe no. You still can hardly get a decent trigger or a ready supply of quality mags and even if the "new" ruger is better it only comes in one basic setup. Buy almost any stock AR for a couple more bucks or a used AR for about the same and you can ---set it up any way you wany,--buy a wide range of triggers or other aftermarket stuff from mild to wild. Generally just a more flexible platform. Buy the time you buy the gun and say 6 or 7 mags the price of the AR doesn't look to bad for your wallet! Another thing to think about is that a used Ruger anything is worth Cents on the dollar and most any AR that is brand name holds its value pretty well! |
Did you all miss what I found out about their durability? I don't care if they now shoot moa, that's for the target model with no irons and a heavy barrel, too heavy. They also put a sliding harmonic dampener on it making it even more muzzel heavy. No I can't find anyone who has made it through or seen anyone complete a 5 day carbine courses with one! They break and go "tango uniform" according to what I've researched. Mini-14s are not a military combat rifle. I use to own one and had accuracy systems put on a douglas air guaged barrel and do their ultra match job on it. It would shoot moa but it was way to muzzle heavy completely defeating one of the Mini's atributes. Please post here if your Mini-14 has made it through a 5 day carbine course because from what I found out Colts and Bushys complete them more than any other brand.
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No, I haven't taken my Mini to a 5-day carbine class, and I reckon few other folks have, either. A sample size that is too small may be misleading. What I can say is that in the 12 or so years I have owned and shot my Mini nothing has ever broken. I have replaced a few extractors, but that is common in most semi-auto rifles. I would be interested in knowing what parts on the Mini seemed prone to failure. Or were the problems due to things like poor or inadequate lublrication, or bad mags? IIRC. the largest number of rounds through it in one session was a little short of 300 rds, or thereabouts in one morning. After lunch, a number of guys shot the thing off and on for the remainder of the afternoon. I don't know the total number of rounds fired by the Mini that day, but I think it was not much less than 400. No malfs, no drama (some other shooters with different rifles could not say the same), and the Mini started out and finished a 2 MOA Carbine. Not too bad for a non-military, non-combat rifle. Really, the Mini is not quite as bad as some say. At least mine isn't. |
yes and the scope takes cqb right out of the picture. my stock mini before accuracy systems shot 4"-6" at 100yrds from a rifle rest. that was with bh 68gr match ammo and firing 3 round groups letting the barrel cool between groups. it was way worse with all other ammo. i can't stand an inaccurate rifle. my dpms ap4 .308 is sub moa with tap ammo, my m4 bushy shoots right at to a little over moa, and my colt cnm h-bar will put 4 rds into .4" at 100yrds with the scope. mini's lousy accuracy along with apparently not making it through a course ars make it through makes me wonder why anyone would shell ot $600.00 after taxes for a new one? for $150.00 more your getting an ar which is a battle proven weapons platform. i'd go with the other guy here get an ak for $500 before a mini they're wicked reliable and at least you know if it's 100yrds out there run away or get closer. also bill ruger folded over like a deck of cards to the anti-gun lobby. as i don't see sturm ruger selling their 20rd mags with their rifles i don't think their attitude has changed don't give them your dollars.
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absolutely right about those 20rd ruger mags. (the only good ones) at $43.00 ,(if your lucky i've seen them as high as $55.00 a piece) you'll be paying more for your mini-14 than a good ar if you buy five! |
Could you be a little more specific about Ruger "folding" to the Anti-gun lobby? Or is it Smith and Wesson and/or Glock that you really meant? Ruger never did anything like the Glock and S&W sell-outs. |
the ones ruger is quoting as moa have a heavy bull barrel and a huge ugly sliding vibration weight. must be a great rifle to have to move a weigt around on the barrel every time you fire a differant weight projectile when the rest of us hold over or under for the differant weights. |
What you are describing appears to be an adaptation of the Browning BOSS system, which is an adjustable harmonic damper. Are we to take it that you also consider Browning rifles so-equipped as sub-par? |
broken bolts, extactors, warped barrels, broken charging handles. hell i put 500rds through my .45s each time out. My average day for my rifles other than the colt is between 600 and 1000rds this usually takes place in less than a couple of hours hosing milk jugs, watermelons, coconuts, the occasional cinder block, ect. they're are not target rifles yet shoot sub moa, DPMS AP4 .308, or moa -1.25" bushy M4 16". They still shoot this good after being totally heated up and dirty. I get them spotless after use and replace the extractor spring every 2500rds or so and would trust my life to them. i had a mini-14 and the accuracy was so poor especially after heating the barrel (i'm talking 10" at 100yrds)that i spent $700.00 to get it to shoot moa. i sold it because it defeated the handiness of the rifle. load up 1000rds of ammo and go put it to the test. if it can blow through that much ammo quicly and give you decent groups even at 50yrds then be happy. I wouldn't trust my life on any rifle that couldn't do this. the mini is not in the same class of rifle as the ar. ones for fun and ones for serious work. |
Can't speak to the broken bolt. That's a serious problem if it's common. Haven't seen one myself. As to the other problems you mention, Installing a $15 buffer, and giving the Mini's barreled action a $75 cryo-treating might have saved you some money. Seemed to work well on mine. |
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What do rely on your Mini for? I'm pointing out something I didn't know before, that the Mini-14 platform is not dead reliable rifle like i always heard and thought it was. Accuraccy system will not give you a moa guarantee without the barrel upgrade, trigger job, and three point pillar bedding. Now if you've had the freeze treatment and buffer get out there and blow through the 1000rds quickly then settle down for some accuracy groups while the barrel still hot. Forget the 1000rds blow through 100rds as fast as you can then try for groups. If you think this is unreasonable it takes place in combat often. Your in a fire fight things settle down for a moment you, see a high priority target's head poking through a door frame, range is 75rds you put the dot dead center on his face and squeeze one off. My DPMS or Bushy will take him out does your Mini? Been there done that for real. So what is your Mini-14 for, plinking or self defense? If your looking for a cheap weapons platform you can rely on get an AK or SKS they are about as accurate as the old Mini-14s, cost less, mags aren't $49.99 for 20rd, and they are battle proven. If your happy with your rifle hey great. If shtf are you going to rely on it for defending yourself or family? Katrina was only 2 years ago it could happen again and be worse somewhere else?
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Another person overstating the typical accuray of the AR platform. With a LW, LaRue, PacNor, noveski Brl you can expect submoa with proper load selection from an AR. Should you expect a typical Colt or Bushmaster chrome lined brl to shoot MOA, no. especially not with M193 or M855 ammo. Only on the internet does the typical AR15 shoot better than the 1.25-1.5 referred to above. |
My Mini-14, not a ranch rifle will ring the 12" gong at 200M 60 out of 60 with SA M1A3. Now 6moa is nothing to get excited about from a varmit gun or and AR. But for a $298 plinking rifle with 21yo surplus ammo, it will do. They have been accurate enough for the California department of corrections too. their tower guards have killed a lot of people with Min-14's. |
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No the ruger target ranch rifle has a slide weight a harmonic dampener if you will and a heavy bull barel with no iron sights. It defeats the purpose of buying a light handy carbine. It retails for $900.00, mags are $49.00 a piece still sound good to you? |
Bill Ruger went before a house sub commitee and stated " no person needs to have a rifle or handgun with a magazine capacity of more than 10 rounds" it is matter of public record google it and read about how hey folded BEFORE sw. |
My M4 16" Bushy will go moa with 75gr TAP if I do my part. |
Yea I didn't get the Glock thing either 
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Your point being...... NONE, 2 MOA you don't need a scope, iron sights are just fine. by scope I do mean a magnified scope, but then again i don't think you need anything but iron sights out to 200 yards, and up to 4-6x to 600 yards, unless you are shooitng sub MOA than a 10x is all you really need to 600 yards. |
Will it consistantloy group 10 shot groupd under 1" at 100M? not sometimes but allways grouping under 1 moa? Because that the type of accuracy many people here claim they get with their AR's. If your does you got lucky. Because that type of accuracy from mass produced chrome lined brls is extremely rare. |
5 shots not 10 as I start screwing up after that. Chip McCormick match trigger, free float quad rail, 75gr tap ammo not mil-surplus, all helps. My totally stock Colt CNM H-Bar with a SS109 scope put 4 rounds into .38" of the 75gr TAP then I pulled one out to make the group .58" gee that sucks for a stock 20" AR. I see guys at range shoot sub moa with rr, bushys, colts, olympic arms, armalites, you name it, not with mil-surplus ammo. Ever been to CP and see the stock class guys shoot, very impressive? Give David Tubb a 16" carbine and he'll out shoot any of us! It's usually not the rifle with grouping problems. |
Are you sure of that? Or didn't he advocate by letter restricting magazine capacity and NOT firearms with so-called "evil features". If his position had been adpoted, we would have been able, for example, to buy relatively cheap Steyr AUGs while the Ban was in place. Arguably we would have been MUCH better off had his suggestion been adopted. No matter, his proposal was not accepted, and we got the Ban of '94. |
Here's the low-down on Glock:query.nytimes.com/gst/fullpage.html?res=9500E6D71130F933A15751C1A96F958260 After the firestorm over Glock being a willing accomplice of the Clintons developed, Ianuzzi was "kicked upstairs" with much fanfare. Last I heard, he still works there. |
Would you like a direct quote from Bill on the issue? Here you go: "Ruger made additional comments during an interview with NBCs Tom Brokaw that angered 2nd Amendment proponents even further, saying that "no honest man needs more than 10 rounds in any gun…" and "I never meant for simple civilians to have my 20 and 30 round magazines…" Yes, we are sure of his position. Here is the full explanation of what happened (link below quote): "Ruger expressed a highly unpopular position (amongst firearms owners, users and enthusiasts) by stating his personal views on the "sporting" nature of certain firearms. In a letter to members of the House and Senate on 30 March 1989, Ruger stated in what has come to be known as "The Ruger Letter": "The best way to address the firepower concern is therefore not to try to outlaw or license many millions of older and perfectly legitimate firearms (which would be a licensing effort of staggering proportions) but to prohibit the possession of high capacity magazines. By a simple, complete, and unequivocal ban on large capacity magazines, all the difficulty of defining "assault rifles" and "semi-automatic rifles" is eliminated. The large capacity magazine itself, separate or attached to the firearm, becomes the prohibited item. A single amendment to Federal firearms laws could prohibit their possession or sale and would effectively implement these objectives." In addition to the furor amongst hunters, sportsmen and shooters caused by "The Ruger Letter", Ruger made additional comments during an interview with NBCs Tom Brokaw that angered 2nd Amendment proponents even further, saying that "no honest man needs more than 10 rounds in any gun…" and "I never meant for simple civilians to have my 20 and 30 round magazines…" This position, coming from an important firearms manufacturer such as Ruger, caused outrage in the shooting sports community and led to a boycott of Ruger products that is still practiced by many firearms purchasers to this day, who choose to buy products from manufacturers who they feel hold a greater respect for their customers. Though Ruger retired (and later died), there is fear that his suspected contempt for the company's customer base still permeates upper management of the company. "The Ruger Letter" is widely accepted as being the genesis for those parts of legislation that were drafted 5 years later in the now defunct Assault Weapons Ban which prohibited the manufacture of any magazines holding over 10 rounds of ammunition for civilian sale, except to the motion-picture industry, which Ruger continued to pursue. Critics consider it ironic that the company would supply shows such as The A Team with the Model 556 (a fully-automatic machine gun), then complain about the resulting public image of the semi-automatic Mini-14 lookalike. While it is unknown what the true motives behind "The Ruger Letter" really were, it is widely speculated that his position on magazine capacity was more a matter of smart business than one of individual philosophy. Given the legislative climate regarding firearms during that time (the late 1980s/early 1990s), the prospect of an outright ban that may have impacted one of Rugers most popular and profitable models (the Mini 14) was a very real possibility. By taking preemptive measures to shift the focus from the "guns" to the "magazine capacity", this would allow Sturm, Ruger to continue production with their Mini 14 line of firearms for civilian sale. Any legislation regarding magazines would have had zero impact on their bottom line, given that Ruger maintained a company policy refusing to sell Mini 14 magazines over 5 rounds (which would not have been affected), even prior to the 1994 legislation. However, the tactic was a complete failure. Not only was the Mini-14 included in the various lists of banned guns, but the customer base of "simple civilians" simply found other vendors, while the government and law-enforcement markets largely continued to pass by Ruger products in favor of arms from Colt's, Springfield Armory, Heckler and Koch, FN and others." end quote. Here is the link: LINK TO BILL RUGERS ANTI ASSAULT RIFLE STANCE Let the old man's words (congressional testimony actually) speak for themselves. He hated motorcycles too. True, now Bill's dead (NRA had a big gushing send-off tribute to him when they should have said: "good ridence!"). So Ruger, Inc. has changed from their backwards anti-gun policies, right? Not a chance. Unlike S&W which saw the error of its prior owner's ways, there does not seem to be any deviation from the Bill Ruger philosophy since his death. For example, the only 20 and 30 round factory Ruger mini-14 magazines you can buy are those that come through LEO distributors who Ruger sells to with a policy that the mags not be sold to the public. However, the mags are legal for civilians in some states to buy and own so the distributors sell them to us anyway. Try ordering a 30 rounder right from Ruger. Good luck. ANd, they WON'T sell any gun parts - period. And a Cowboy Action Shooter about buying Ruger factory parts FROM RUGER. Their "no parts for you!" policy is not too friendly and its fairly unique in the industry. (though the "simple civilian" line from Bill's mouth sorta explains the attitude at that company). Do I hope they will change? Of course. Do I believe they will? No. BTW, to be fair, the stock products are OK. I once owned a Redhawk .44 Mag and it was both reliable and accurate while I owned it. As long as I can buy ARs, there will not be a Mini in my gunsafe. |
Your link goes to Wikipedia. Due to its open nature, and lack of verification of submissions, such a reference is FAR from unquestionable. Please don't quotw Wikipedia in a serious debate, as it only serves to damage your credibility.
Really? When did he testify before Congress?
NOT true. The legal agreement ordered against them is in abeyance simply because the present Administration has made it clear that it will not enforce the judgment. When a Democrat becomes President, the full force of the judgment can (and WILL) be implemented. S&W has not, to my knowledge, lifted a finger to have the judgment vacated under what must be fairly termed a favorable Executive and Judicial climate. When that climate changes, as it will, the hammer will fall. Sell-out it was, and sell-out it remains. FAR worse in reality and in legal precedent than ANYTHING Ruger may have proposed.
Hmmmm. I have a number of Ruger 30-rd mags NOT marked LEO-only. Apparently, you are misinformed.
My understanding is that 30-rd mags are no longer offered by Ruger, period.
Complete hogwash. I've bought all of the critical partds for my Mini-14 from Ruger, including firing pins, extractors, ejectors, and a number of different springs.
Well, I guess Ruger will have to continue to be the largest maker of firearms in the US without you. Not for nothing, but Ruger is a sub-contractor for a great many US and foreign arms makers. If you want to boycott Ruger, be careful. You may find that there are very few firearms offered for sale in the US that do not at least contain some sub-assemblies and/or parts made by Ruger. May I point out that it was Ruger who disproportionately funded the legal defense against the recent spate of lawsuits against the firearms industry? Now, someone will say "Well, raf, that was self-serving." Of course it was, but if my neighbor comes to my house to fight a fire that might spread to his place, he is helping me first of all. It was also a straight-up RKBA fight and FAR from a cave-in, as was done by Glock and S&W. Bill Ruger's dead, the good and bad of him. Carrying around animosity based on misinformation doesn't hurt him, it hurts you. Save that sort of thing for our real enemies, like Teddy Kennedy, Chuckie Schumer, Di-Fi, and Sara Brady. |
I stated: "Try ordering a 30 rounder right from Ruger. Good luck." Could just as easily said 20 or 30 rounder - either way, ITS NOT FOR SALE TO YOU FROM RUGER. Don't take my word for it, here is the link: LINK TO RUGER'S ORDER PAGE FOR 5 & 10 ROUND MAGAZINES FOR SIMPLE CIVILIANS I don't doubt you managed to get your hands on some recent 20 rounders THROUGH A DISTRIBUTOR-NOT DIRECT FROM RUGER - re-read my post more carefully next time. As for parts, I don't know where you got those, but here is Ruger's policy: "Firearms parts that are not restricted to factory installation can be ordered from either of our facilities, either by mail, telephone or fax. When ordering parts, please consider the following:" Again, here is the link for you: RUGER'S F'ED UP RESTRICTIVE PARTS POLICY I am not SASS or CAS shooter, but those guys can't get cylinders, triggers, hammers, etc. because RUGER DOES NOT TRUST SIMPLE CIVILIANS with many of their gun parts. Ruger sells you the gun but does not trust you with the parts?!?! WTF? As for their fight for indistry protection - thanks. I agree with you - that was a good thing that Ruger did. As for their Tall Pines casting facility (or whatever its called) its true that Ruger does a lot of the casting for many of the U.S. gun companies. Again, thanks for the good work. But, to get my business back, I will wait until Ruger adopts the sort of corporate philosophy and policies that Barrett, Inc. has adopted & corrects the problems that several of us have noted in this thread. But, as the last poster said: "whatever" - both you & he are right in that Teddy Kennedy, Chuckie Schumer, Di-Fi, and Sara Brady are MUCH bigger threats to our freedoms going into 2008. The effort put into this thread could have been directed at writing letters against the anti-gun forces & lobbying congress on our common cause. CBR |
As I said, I don't think Ruger sells 30-rd mags to anyone anymore. Not you, me, or even LEO.
Like it or not, Ruger has always been extremely cautious about supplying some of their parts, mostly those requiring a certain amount of fitting. Maybe this is due to their reliance on injection molding and/or investment casting. The tolerances on some of these parts are such that in order to get reliable functioning they must be fitted to some extent, at least. Ruger has always been a touch paranoid about lawsuits as well, and maybe this is a reflection of that also. Given the late rash of lawsuits against various gun manufacturers, Ruger included, maybe some of that paranoia was not entirely misplaced. Ruger will sell you just about any part you could ask for. Sometimes, you must ship the firearm to them for fitting and installation. Yes, it's an expense and hassle, but they will sell the parts that way. I sent my Mini off to them to get firing pins and other factory parts. I solved the issue by having them fit a number of each. I'll never run out that way. BTW, in inspecting my Mini, they replaced the bolt for free. Accuracy was greatly enhanced, most likely by them doing something not charged to me. Speaking of Ruger SA revolers, I altered my .45ACP/.45LC pistol to Bisley configuration by ordering the parts directly from Ruger.
That's fine, it's your right to do so. Of course, to be consistent, you will also have to hold all the other firearms manufacturers to the same standard, right?
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Fact: Strum/Ruger will not sell you a 20rd mag for your Mini. Fact: If you buy factory 20rd mags, (they are the best ones) they start at $39.00 a piece,(cheapest)Thank you soooo much Bill Ruger you sell out! Fact: Military does not use the Mini-14. Fact: The Mini-14 has no combat record. Fact: Mini-14s, are not even in the same class as Mil-Spec rifles of any kind. Fact: One has never finished a 5 day Gunsite Carbine course!!! Call or email Pat Rogers about this. They don't even want you to show up with one because you'll hold up the rest of the class when your Mini goes "tango uniform". Fact: You can buy a very good quality AR or AK for less than a Mini-14 once you factor in the cost for mags. Just because prison guards carry Mini-14s means nothing. I guess being able to shoot prisoners from a wall or tower at a range of what 50-75yrds is most impressive?  Kind of like shoot fish in a barrel. Most police departments that use to carry Mini-14s have switched over to the AR platform, or new Reminton pump rifles, hm I wonder why that was?I use own one, never again! I love you guys defending Bill Ruger, lol!! This guy was one of the worst for our second amendment rights! No citizen needs more than 10rds, who is he too say what anyone does or doesn't need. Guess you'll feel he was great guy if Hillary gets in and starts quoting good old Bill. |
I won't trust my life to anything shooting a .22 cal bullet AR or Mini . Thats why I have a M1 Garand. |
Truth: Ruger will sell 20-rd mags to LEO-types. A silly policy which I will not defend.
So what? There have always been mags just as good as Ruger Factory mags (sometimes better) and which have always sold less. None of my stainless steel mags, nor any of my composite mags (all of which work flawlessly) ever cost nearly as much as a factory ruger mag. Oddly enough, the mags which have failed me were both Ruger 30-rd mags, due to worn-out springs. My Thermolds have never had a problem, either.
Truth: Mini-14s were commonly used by both sides in the revolutionary wars of the '80s. Ruger apparently never aggressively marketed the Mini to the military, preferring to concentrate on LEO and civilian sales rather than military contracts. That remains their policy up to today, with the exception of some sales of pistols to the US military. There have been, however, LOTS of sales to Civilians and LEO.
Truth: See above. The Miami shootout involving the FBI may not be a perfect example, but Platt murdered all the FBI agents killed with --you guessed it-- A Mini-14.
Of course it isn't. It was designed and marketed to civilians and LEO. Different tools for different end uses.
Sounds like a few poorly maintained Minis showed up and, not surprisingly, failed. Now, it's a self-fulfilling prophecy. Besides, the Mini was never intended for use as a Battle Carbine (although it has done so), so it is no surprise that some possibly poorly maintained examples have not done well. It might be mentioned that an early M-16, say early Vietnam-era, might not do so well, either.
Truth: I've never claimed the Mini to be a bargain, and have advised against buying one unless at a great price. The cost of mags, is deceptive, as the steel Mini mags are likely to outlast the relatively flimsy AR mags.
Disregarding your insulting remarks about Correctional Officers, I might suggest that most departments are retiring their Minis because (1) they are mostly worn out, and/or (2) the FedGov is literally giving away stored, surplus M-16s through the LEAA. Pretty hard for a commercial business to compete against that. I doubt the sales of Remington Police rifles are yet significant for similar reasons.
Bill Ruger's dead, in case you hadn't noticed. The opinion of Ruger as "one of the worst' when people like Chuck Schumer, Teddy Kennedy, and Frank Lautenberg are still in office can only be called short-sighted and ignorant. Am I a defender of Bill Ruger? Only in the sense that I believe an injustice is often done to his record (his whole record, mind you) by people who generally seem to be either uninformed or misinformed about the whole history of the events. He had his flaws and his good points, and I simply try to set the record straight when it is distorted by others. Ruger made his share of errors, as well as doing some good things. I would hate to be remembered only for my mistakes. How about you? |
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Yes he made designed and made great firearms. Yes he hurt us with the anti-gun lobby. No those people shold not be in office but somehow keep getting elected. The Miami shoot out is hardly a combat record your right. That was case of poorly trained FBI and Police engaging two decorated combat veterns. Ever review that case and read about the wounds on those two? No vital organ hits they bled out. The range of the engagement was from 10 to 75 feet! Rifle and 45acp versus 9mm pistols and shotguns, any rifle would have dominated that shootout as the FBI and Police were down hiding behind their cars firing over the hoods without aiming. Don't try and twist around what I said about the Mini-14s application in prisons. I never once insulted those guards. I was responding to the post of Minis being so good because prison guards use them. It doesn't require a highly accurate or reliable rifle to shoot at people 0-75yrds away who are not shooting back. I would also think the volume of fire by the guards would be low in that type of situation. Glad you agree that the Mini is not in the same class as a proven combat weapon like the AR platform. Glad you feel they are differant rifles for differant purposes. So what is your Mini for? Not just poorly maintain Minis haven't finished a course no Mini has, call them up and ask them. PMI are the only other Mini-14 mags that worth a damn and they aren't cheap if you kind find them. Thermolds will shatter if dropped loaded in freezing conditions mine did. The AR can be configured is so many differant ways, read modular, that is why the M16 AR15 has been in service for 40 years it keeps changing with the mission. With the 77gr OTM the rifle has overcome the M855s lack of performance. Your 1:9 twist Mini probably won't stabilize this round. Anyway you are a happy Mini-14 owner, that's great. I am a former Mini-14 owner who wasn't happy. Now I'm a happy owner of a few ARs. My original post was this, I was looking for a truck rifle and heard the new Ruger RR had improved accuracy since the total re-tooling by Ruger. I was considering one even with objection to Bill Rugers views on magazine capacity. I stumbled, quite by accident on the report of no Mini-14 making it through a 5 day gunsite course. I checked into it, made some calls and found out this to be true. Then I went searching for PMI and Ruger factory mags and was shocked at the price since my last Mini. That all made my decision for me, another 16" M4 Patrolmans carbine will reside behind the front seat of my truck. |
Really $500.00 where I'd like to pick one up? I believe DPMS submitted a special LR.308 to the military for the new Sniper semi-automatic rifle evaluation. Knight armerment got the contract but Armalite, DPMS, and some others as well went after the contract. The DPMS was just a 18" barrel version of the AP4 with rails, sight, and stock changes. Although not combat proven I have put 3500rds through mine with no problems. I did go for a torture test of 1000rds as fast as I could but got kicked off the land I was using by LE. I did get off 620+ and had no malfunctions but on the same target I could keep 6 rounds of 5.56x45 at a high rate of fire I could only keep 4 rounds of 7.62x51. Magazine was empty on the Bushmaster 30rds 6 seconds with good hits. On the DPMS it went 19rds in 6 seconds with good hits. Like I said not a torture test but I feel very comfortable with the rifle. Damage from TAP 155gr rounds is extensive and may be the best defense round made for a carbine of any caliber. You can't imagine what this stuff did on a 235lb boar, although not scientific the damage was incredible, pretty much ruined all the meat in the front quarters not good for hunting anything but two legged creatures.! Back to the thread I don't want to carry my .308 in the truck as it is my house gun. If you don't think muck of the 5.56x45 then maybe you haven't heard about the new TAP 75gr OTM or the 77Gr OTM the latter of which is being used in Iraq with good results. Personally I won't want to get shot with a pellet rifle! I feel the M1 grand is too long, heavy, and slow to deploy from a vehicle. Still would like to get one for traditions sake my father carried one.
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[ARCHIVED THREAD] - New Mini-14 RR Accuracy???? (Page 1 of 2)
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