Armory Sponsor
Posted: 9/13/2009 8:39:21 AM EDT
| So my Giraud trimmer JUST came in now after a few months of waiting. I took his test case and noticed that in my dillion case gauge it was still a little long. Has anyone had to re adjust there machine as soon as they get it from him? |
| IMO, yes it is better, as long as you do not go over the max trim length 1.7600. It gives you more material to work with as far as neck tension, lets the crimped bullet assembly (if you crimp) set out just a little further. Allows a little more useable case volume. On the other hand, those are minor issues for a .010 difference. |
|
Quoted:
I had a dillion case gauge. I doubled checked it with a pair of calipers. I adjusted it down some now my cases are coming out around 1.758-1.759. Speaking of that, is it a better approach to get the case near the max length opposed to the 1.750 min? 1.75" is not the min. It is the recommended trim to length. Quoted:
Allows a little more useable case volume. Not if you keep the OAL the same. |
|
I guess you didn't read the instructions that came with it. The sample case was the last case trimmed on that unit before it was boxed up and shipped. It was enclosed to demonstate the capability of the machine in hand. NO ATTEMPT was made to set the unit to any specific length. Read that again, NO ATTEMPT was made to set the unit to any specific length. As you can see from the responses to this thread already, there are about 10,000 different opinions as what is the proper or most beneficial length to set the case length at. There is no proper answer and any dimension I choose will be wrong 9,999 times out of 10,000. So I don't attempt to set it at any specific length. All I do is make sure the chamfer is correct or acceptable and that the unit is set to trim some material off the case enclosed.
The instructions say to measure the enclosed sample case and determine if you want your cases longer or shorter. There are then further instructions on how to make this adjustment; loosen nut, twist case holder up or down, tighten nut........ That should be the only adjustment you need to make before using the trimmer. I don't think there is any case trimmer on the market that does not require some checking and/or adjustment before use. They all require the overall length be set or measured before production use. And before somebody chimes in the Lee stud thing doens't need adjustment, mine sure did when I measured the first case trimmed with it. I had to take a stone a shorten the stud a couple thousandths until it met my desired dimension. Doug GIraud Giraud Tool Co., Inc. |
|
Doug,
Your machine is great, I love it. I read the instructions and I was just seeing how people handled changing the cutting length. I didn't know if perhaps I was screwing something up with my resizing or what. After i tweaked it and verified it I see some tweak-age was required. Now she is purin' like a champion. |
|
When I got mine from Doug, The trimmed case measured 1.456" too short for me.
I don't think he actually sets it to anything speciffic, he probably just screws it in a speciffic number of turns and locks the nut down, trims a case and packages it up. Also your headspace will change what the case trims to, so you need to get your headspace set correctly and make sure your process/dies is giving you consistant headspace THEN adjust your trimmer to trim to your desired length. You will quickly find out that you probably have headspace consistancy problems, because every case you trim will come out a different size.. Then you'll learn about Carbide expander ball's and spray lube (If you don't already use spray lube). I curse the day I got my Giraud Trimmer (Because it made me realize my process wasn't as consistant as I thought it was), But I love the hell out of it! -Masta |
|
Quoted:
All I do is make sure the chamfer is correct or acceptable and that the unit is set to trim some material off the case enclosed. Doug GIraud Giraud Tool Co., Inc. Doug, Is the chamfer adjustable? Though it makes a beautiful chamfer, It's razor sharp and I use BT bullets, So I wouln't mind make it chamfer alot less.. Thanks, -Masta |
|
Quoted:
Quoted:
All I do is make sure the chamfer is correct or acceptable and that the unit is set to trim some material off the case enclosed. Doug GIraud Giraud Tool Co., Inc. Doug, Is the chamfer adjustable? Though it makes a beautiful chamfer, It's razor sharp and I use BT bullets, So I wouln't mind make it chamfer alot less.. Thanks, -Masta Why? The chamfer insures that I'm not scraping metal from any bullet, even flat base. What advantage will you get by reducing it? |
|
Masta,
If the chamfer is sharp, its because you are letting the case wobble around too much during the trimming process. The reason it is sharp is because the radius between the inside and outside chamfer is very small. If you let the case move around too much, then the inside and outside angles overlap and don't leave room for the radius. I tried several different radii on the blades when I started out and found that if the radius is much larger than where it is now, there won't be any significant chamfer on either the inside or outside. Realize that most rifle brass for .223 averages around 0.012" wall thickness at the neck, you use a 0.001" to 0.002" radius between the cutting angles and you have used up 1/3 of the entire wall thickness. That leaves only .004" for each chamfer if everything is perfect. Now start throwing variables into the mix and things go downhill quickly. Measure your brass with a dial caliper or ball micrometer and you will see the case neck wall thickness can vary quite a bit. I have seen some brands of brass vary 0.0055" from one side of the case to the other. You let the case move around too much inside the case holder, you might induce another 0.005" movement, now you have used up 0.0105" of the available 0.012" wall thickness. If I make a blade with a 0.005" radius to cover the 0.0105" movement and still have a radius, then that only leaves less than 0.001" for the chamfer on each side. Then I get calls that there is no chamfer on the case mouth..... Its a balancing act that must cover a majority of the variables, but it won't cover everything unless each case holder is custom machined to match your lot of brass and sizing die. Then you change brass lots or introduce some other variable to the process and we have to start all over again. I'm sure everyone would love it if I made tight necked case holders that forced you to neck turn the brass to a consistent dimension before you could even trim it. I know I am not going to neck turn my entire stash for the limited preceived gain. You can adjust the balance between the chamfers, more inside, less outside, but you can't move the inside or outside without affecting the other. Doug Giraud Giraud Tool Co., Inc. |
|
Since Doug's trimmer trims the brass based on the length between the shoulder and case mouth, you HAVE to set it up to trim brass from YOUR sizing process. When I got mine, his instructions made that pretty clear to me.
Just like you wouldn't shoot ammo someone else ran thru their rifle then neck-sized, you shouldn't expect him to set up the trimmer for your dies. |
|
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
All I do is make sure the chamfer is correct or acceptable and that the unit is set to trim some material off the case enclosed. Doug GIraud Giraud Tool Co., Inc. Doug, Is the chamfer adjustable? Though it makes a beautiful chamfer, It's razor sharp and I use BT bullets, So I wouln't mind make it chamfer alot less.. Thanks, -Masta Why? The chamfer insures that I'm not scraping metal from any bullet, even flat base. What advantage will you get by reducing it? I'd stop slicing my fingers/hands with razor sharp case necks. If you chamfer a case neck with one of the many inside/outside hand tools, then one on the Giraud trimmer you'll see a HUGE difference, the one from the Giraud trimmer puts a chamfer on the case that is MUCH larger/deeper than the one from the hand tool. I can take pictures if you'd like.. I just thought if I could adjust it then i could reduce the amount of chamfer and still have the benefit of the chamfer with out having it soo deep. -Masta |
|
Quoted:
So my Giraud trimmer JUST came in now after a few months of waiting. I took his test case and noticed that in my dillion case gauge it was still a little long. Has anyone had to re adjust there machine as soon as they get it from him? I don't own a Giraud. But, it would seem to be a prudent move to (as with any adjustable tool to)..........."trust but verify." So, if adjustments are in order............so be it. Aloha, Mark |
|
Quoted:
Quoted: Allows a little more useable case volume.
I don't think you meant to say this. Or am I wrong? The key words are (if you crimp). If you crimp into the cannelure and the case neck is .010 longer, then you can set the bullet out another .010. That means the tail of the bullet is out of the case by that amount. Added useable volume = .010 x Pi x (caliber**2)/4 = very small increase. Yes, the OAL would be longer. If you are at max OAL for magazines, or lands, then that would be a problem. But, 1.76000 is allowed max. by Mil Std.s. So, most AR bullets with cannelures are going to set OK. But .010 added so trim is 1.7600000 is not going to buy much, so don't make it a prime goal. |
|
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
All I do is make sure the chamfer is correct or acceptable and that the unit is set to trim some material off the case enclosed. Doug GIraud Giraud Tool Co., Inc. Doug, Is the chamfer adjustable? Though it makes a beautiful chamfer, It's razor sharp and I use BT bullets, So I wouln't mind make it chamfer alot less.. Thanks, -Masta Why? The chamfer insures that I'm not scraping metal from any bullet, even flat base. What advantage will you get by reducing it? I'd stop slicing my fingers/hands with razor sharp case necks. If you chamfer a case neck with one of the many inside/outside hand tools, then one on the Giraud trimmer you'll see a HUGE difference, the one from the Giraud trimmer puts a chamfer on the case that is MUCH larger/deeper than the one from the hand tool. I can take pictures if you'd like.. I just thought if I could adjust it then i could reduce the amount of chamfer and still have the benefit of the chamfer with out having it soo deep. -Masta I too have sliced my fingers on the razor sharp case necks  I wouldn't mind if it wasn't quite so sharp, I don't know that it's me wobbling because even the sample case on my unit had a razor sharp edge 
|
| Masta, just adjust the cutter blade in a tiny bit to get less inside chamfer. This puts some inside and a little outside ( the outside has a flatter angle) so the mouths don't seem as sharp. Caution: when you back out the set screw the blade falls free so look real close or mark it or measure it where it was since the adjustment is very slight. Sometimes it takes several trys to get it where you want it. |
Armory Sponsor