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Posted: 1/31/2017 1:15:01 AM EDT
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I picked up a new Desert Eagle in .50 AE a couple weeks ago and the only way I can afford to feed it is to reload. I have been reloading for a while now but first time with the .50 AE.
I'm using Lee dies on a single stage RCBS press. I bought some new Starline brass and I'm using Rainier 335 gr HP plated bullets. I always build a dummy round first with no powder or primer to test function. My problem is that after I chamber the round I get significant OAL increase. OAL before chambering is 1.595". OAL after is 1.602" and if I chamber again it increases more. I slightly belled the case to accept the bullet, seated to length and then I back out the seater plug to crimp afterwards. My crimp is about .002", which is more than I normally do for autos, but I read a decent crimp is necessary for this beast. When I push the bullet against the bench it does not set back at all. Is this poor neck tension? Does chambering cause that much inertia or is it occuring upon extraction? Most importantly, how do I fix the issue? I don't think I need more crimp. Thanks in advance! |
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I'm not completely familiar with the 50AE but if it's like other auto pistol rounds in that if it headspaces on the case mouth and you use a taper crimp tool to remove the mouth flair, you can actually be reducing your neck tension by crimping .002" under.
If you were to examine the case mouth under magnification you would see that it is not in contact with the bullet because it springs back but the soft bullet does not spring back. So the more "crimp" you apply the more you crush the bullet and the less bullet to case neck contact you end up with. If you want maximum neck tension use just enough mouth flair get the job done and only crimp enough to make the case straight again. Motor PS: I went and looked it up. Yes it is no different to load than say a 45acp or 9mm or whatever. I stand by my recommendations to flair as little as possible and only remove the flair nothing more. 
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This is where knowing how your dies work comes in handy. I had the same problem with plated bullets in my Tommygun in 45 ACP.
Thompsons use a direct blowback action just like a semi-auto .22LR. To hold back the action until the bullet exits it uses a big, heavy bolt and stiff recoil springs. When all that mass comes forward it does so with a lot of power. With a Desert Eagle chambered in such a powerful cartridge it's gonna need a pretty stiff recoil spring, when the slide goes forward it can create enough kinetic energy to pull bullets. Here's how Lee dies work and what I did to fix the problem:  " />
This is the insert inside the expander die. Dimension ''A'' is the part that bells the mouth. Dimension ''B'' is the part that enters the mouth and expands the case. Dimension ''C'' determines how much neck tension you get. If ''C'' is too big, and I suspect it is, mine was, then you'll have poor tension. Lee is known for making stuff quickly and dimension ''C'' is often too big and ''B'' is very rough. The lower 3/4 of ''B'' needs to be reduced about 3-5 thousandths. I tapped mine onto a piece of wood dowel rod and chucked it in a drill. With 80 grit sandpaper between my fingers I spun the drill and sanded down that area then used 220 grit to smooth it more, then polished it. The result is a smooth working expanding die that gives the neck tension needed. You could try more crimp or even a FCD, but I don't think it'll work, it didn't for me, I tried everything. Maybe this will help, it worked for me. |
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This is very likely your problem, OP.
EVERY Lee expander die I have used has this problem, to the point that I won't use them unless I am using a Lee powder measure; in that case, they get treated as Forty5Cal explained above. In your seater die, you probably have a roll crimp shoulder, which is not effective for "ACP-style" rounds. A Lee FCD will help tremendously as it doesn't rely on a trim length and is really an improved taper crimp, which is effective. |
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Quoted:
This is where knowing how your dies work comes in handy. I had the same problem with plated bullets in my Tommygun in 45 ACP. Thompsons use a direct blowback action just like a semi-auto .22LR. To hold back the action until the bullet exits it uses a big, heavy bolt and stiff recoil springs. When all that mass comes forward it does so with a lot of power. With a Desert Eagle chambered in such a powerful cartridge it's gonna need a pretty stiff recoil spring, when the slide goes forward it can create enough kinetic energy to pull bullets. I think you are on to something here. This is my first time using Lee dies (everything else is RCBS) and I thought the expander die seemed a bit rough. I will check this out tonight. Regarding the Lee FCD, I don't believe they offer one for .50 AE except maybe by special order. |
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How about one on sale instead? 50 AE crimper |
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I think that's exactly what I have in my 3 die set. That's not a factory crimp die. Quoted:
Quoted:
How about one on sale instead? 50 AE crimper |
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You can lower your taper crimp die all that you want and you will not increase the hold on the bullet. Once you go beyond where you are crushing the bullet with the case mouth your tension will only get less. This is true for any bullet but will be be much easier to do to a soft plated bullet.
I don't know why this is so hard to grasp. Brass will always rebound. This is evident in every process we do weather it's sizing down or expanding. A lead or lead core bullet will not rebound as much as the brass does so once you crush it the area in which it was crushed is now void of tension. Auto pistol rounds basically rely on neck tension alone and you can not increase that tension crimping with a taper crimp of any type. The only way you will create more neck tension is to reduce the amount that you are expanding. Motor |
I agree that the "excessive" crimp is denting the soft plated bullets. This is what the round looked like after being chambered 3 or 4 times.
I'm used to jacketed bullets and I probably crimped more than necessary because I thought the large caliber needed it. I also think the expander is causing some loss of neck tension as was suggested. I don't want to mess with modifying it so I just ordered the RCBS dies as I've never had a problem with those. I can return my Lee dies for free (Amazon is awesome). Will see if the problem goes away. Final question. I actually loaded up 50 rds before I discovered this issue. Do you think it's safe to try shooting them? I'm told with the DE OAL is determined by the magazine and not the chamber so if the length grows by a few thousandths upon chambering I should be OK right? I didn't notice any scratches on the bullet from the lands. I figured I could just try one round and see what happens. Am I being too dumb? |
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If your load is not on the top end and the bullets are not moving far enough to engage the rifling when chambered combined with the fact that it's a soft bullet, I'd say go ahead and shoot them.
One other completely safe option would be to shoot them single shot lowering the slid with your hand. I believe OAL growth in auto loading pistols is more common than many would think. It's just something most people never look for. You know a round is typically only chambered once. Motor |
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Tried my loads out this weekend and it functioned just fine. Went through about 35 rounds and I did have one failure to feed, but I don't think it was ammo related. Cleared the jam and was back in business.
Rainier 335 gr plated HP Starline Brass 30 gr H110 CCI 350 primers 1.595" OAL It has been a while since I've shot a 50AE but this load seemed to be pretty manageable to me. Wouldn't want to shoot more than a few mags tho. Will have to try out the new RCBS dies and see if the neck tension improves. |
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Try to measure the expanders (Lee vs RCBS) to see if there is a difference and use the smaller of the two. Use as little mouth flair as needed. I say this simply because the amount of mouth flair is directly related to how far down into the casing you push the expander. Less mouth flair equals less case body expanded. But of course you need some flair to get the bullets started good.
Motor |
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