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Posted: 1/29/2012 1:12:36 PM EDT
| The op rod jumps off track when the bolt locks back on an empty mag. What gives? Any ideas? I'm not using anything but 7.62 nato ball, so I know it isn't an excessive bullet weight issue. |
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Try another op rod from your spare parts
or Get the tab redone on the op-rod. If not in spec, it will not be retained in the receiver. Try Warbird Custom Try Columbia Machine Works, Inc from another post: "blfuller [Member] 5/28/2011 9:40:34 PM PST Per Kuhnhausen's service rifle manual, original specifications for M14 op rod receiver guide stud dimensions are: width: .100" -.005"; height .320" -.003"; length: .330" -.010". Op rod guide stud/receiver fit note: Because of the op rod guide slot and dismount notch dimensional differences found in commercial M14 receivers, M14 operating rods should be selected first for rod arm and tube section straightness and then selected for, or adjusted to, an approximate .010" top guide stud clearance inside the (deburred) receiver guide stud slot. The op rod guide stud should be tall enough to drag slightly as the operating rod is dismounted from the receiver. So if your width is less than .095"; height less than .317; length less than .320" would be out of tolerance. They can be rebuilt by TIG welding by someone that knows what they are doing." |
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Polytechs, are famous for op-rods popping out of their tracks. Other than trash talk from Fulton Armory, this is the very 1st time I have heard this nonsense. Me either. 
oddly, mine has been 100% since 1993 Guess I'm toodumb to realize I bouht piece of crap...... |
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Polytechs, are famous for op-rods popping out of their tracks. Other than trash talk from Fulton Armory, this is the very 1st time I have heard this nonsense. This member speaks the truth!! It amazing how much bullshit is on the web, and even before the web started the bull was deep. My neighbor that I go shooting with had heard the the bolts would blast through the receiver and in-bed into the shooters face on the norinco ak's 
I have a Norinco M14s on consignment at my local shop, and nobody wants anything to do with it  The shop owner has tried to explain it's value, but of coarse no one will believe a "gun shop guru" these days. I have put 500 rds threw it, with the original bolt, and the headspace hasn't moved at all!
The whole irony of it all is that they usually go with the Springfield's because they are afraid of the Norinco, and end up coming back and complaining about how they cant get a Sadlak mount to line up on some of the springer receivers. My chic-com took the Sadlak with no hang ups. I also have a Springer, and a Poly in my collection. I went with the Bassett mount for both of those. Enough rambling from me. Sorry to get off track OP  I just wanted to make my point about how the rumornet can be misleading sometime.
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Polytechs, are famous for op-rods popping out of their tracks. There was a write up in one of the gun rags back in the 90's. Mine would also pop out. Too scary for a 7.62 mm rifle. I sold mine in the 90's. Poly Techs are famous with people who have never owned a Poly Tech. Love mine. |
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Polytechs, are famous for op-rods popping out of their tracks. There was a write up in one of the gun rags back in the 90's. Mine would also pop out. Too scary for a 7.62 mm rifle. I sold mine in the 90's. Poly Techs are famous with people who have never owned a Poly Tech. Love mine. +1. Out of the year I've had mine and after about 1k rounds through it my op-rod has popped out of its track once, the first time I took it out with a brand spanking new mag. Been flawless since then. Much adeu about nothing with Polytech's in my opinion. |
| I've got 3, and never had a problem with the op rod. We did have one problem, but that was with a squib round. Not the guns fault, but rather the nut behind the wheel. My son cranked off another round behind the stuck bullet. Gun survived, though it needed a new barrel and castle nut. |
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Polytechs, are famous for op-rods popping out of their tracks. Bullshit. Well the one I owned did it (op-rod dismounted), and I can not recall the actual magazine that published the said article back in 1995 in which a Poly Tech rifle had an Op-rod dismounted. But it happened. You can take your bullshit (with all due respect) and eat it sir. I have no idea where you can discount my first hand experience! |
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Polytechs, are famous for op-rods popping out of their tracks. Bullshit. Well the one I owned did it (op-rod dismounted), and I can not recall the actual magazine that published the said article back in 1995 in which a Poly Tech rifle had an Op-rod dismounted. But it happened. You can take your bullshit (with all due respect) and eat it sir. I have no idea where you can discount my first hand experience! They are not "Famous" for it. They are famous for long headspace. Op rods popping out does happen. Measure the tab. |
| I have not heard of another manufacturer that it was as prevalent. Anyone? "Famous" as in a firearms publication? It went to the printers-(it also contained an article on the new LaserAim 10mm pistol), many people read it. I guess not so much in this thread. But is there another definition for famous that I should be using? If so I will refrain from using the word "famous". |
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I have not heard of another manufacturer that it was as prevalent. Anyone? "Famous" as in a firearms publication? It went to the printers-(it also contained an article on the new LaserAim 10mm pistol), many people read it. I guess not so much in this thread. But is there another definition for famous that I should be using? If so I will refrain from using the word "famous". Everyone hear has read the article that made the Poly Tech and Norincos famous. At the time they were in a position to directly compete with Springfield Armory. At about half the price. The magazine I'm sure was not biased in any way 
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Fair enough.
Just in closing since the 1980's when I starting collecting the dozens of firearms in my collection including three M-14 type rifles, the Poly has been the only firearm I have ever sold. It just appears that the quality was bit hit or miss on the Poly's, Mine was a nice looking rifle (beside the faux flash hider), that was just too loose. |
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Polytechs, are famous for op-rods popping out of their tracks. Other than trash talk from Fulton Armory, this is the very 1st time I have heard this nonsense. Me either.
oddly, mine has been 100% since 1993 Guess I'm toodumb to realize I bouht piece of crap...... Me too. I never heard of this before and my POS hasn't done it.
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Polytechs, are famous for op-rods popping out of their tracks. Bullshit. Well the one I owned did it (op-rod dismounted), and I can not recall the actual magazine that published the said article back in 1995 in which a Poly Tech rifle had an Op-rod dismounted. But it happened. You can take your bullshit (with all due respect) and eat it sir. I have no idea where you can discount my first hand experience! He is not the one spewing bullshit. You having ONE do it and the rag talked about ONE, does not make it FAMOUS FOR OP-RODS POPPING OUT OF THEIR TRACKS. |
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I have not heard of another manufacturer that it was as prevalent. Anyone? "Famous" as in a firearms publication? It went to the printers-(it also contained an article on the new LaserAim 10mm pistol), many people read it. I guess not so much in this thread. But is there another definition for famous that I should be using? If so I will refrain from using the word "famous". As prevalent? You had ONE and read about another. It may have happened a few times just as it might have with other M14 clones. To say that "Polytechs are famous for" means they do it all the time. |
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http://forums.thecmp.org/showthread.php?t=29093 http://m14forum.com/m14/97045-op-rod-flew-off.html Heres a couple enjoy found with simple google search, within first few entries on the first page. Enjoy. Okay, the first link was about ONE and it also had a bunch of bullshit spewed by people who also didn't know what they were talking about. Gee, in the second link a guy said he had that happen with a Garand. Does that mean that Garands are "famous" for that happening? Keep digging that hole. |
| I also guess the moderators should just lock this thread down, as some appear to be closed minded. I have never said Polytechs were terrible, just that they are not perfect, just like many other firearms. I will bow out now, as to not to offend the true believers anymore. |
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I also guess the moderators should just lock this thread down, as some appear to be closed minded. I have never said Polytechs were terrible, just that they are not perfect, just like many other firearms. I will bow out now, as to not to offend the true believers anymore. So, because you aren't having your way, the mods should lock this thread? Because you got called on your broad generalization, this thread should be locked? No one said they were perfect, but they are not "famous" for the op rods jumping track. It happens, it happens with M1As, with GI M14s, even with GI Garands. |
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Having worked on 1000's of Chinese rifles, I can say that the tab (receiver lug) is not to exact mil-std.
Poly's or Norc's will have the problem of jumping the track sooner. when a good number of rounds have been fired. The tab (lug) on most new or like new Chinese rifles I've measured run about about .080-.090 wide depending on the particular rifle. USGI spec. for new is .095-.100 just for reference. Also, the stud on the bottom of the Chinese tab (lug) usually run slightly shorter than USGI spec. & that alone contributes to Chinese op-rods jumping the track sooner. I've welded & machined a good number of USGI & Chinese op-rods with the Chinese rods being in the 65%-75% of basket cases. Another cause for op-rods jumping the track on Chinese rifles is the lack of correct downward tension needed to keep the tab in the groove. Bending or adjusting an op-rod can eliminate the need for welding the tabs on some but, sooner or later building up the tab to new spec. will be needed. The same op-rod adjustments are typically done on M1's if a builder knows how. The Chinese rifles are very good for the most part but, if guys take measurements on different parts like the barrel you'll quickly find big differences. The rear sight assembly on some rifles are perfect examples of the lack of quality control done by the chinese. . |
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Having worked on 1000's of Chinese rifles, I can say that the tab (receiver lug) is not to exact mil-std. Poly's or Norc's will have the problem of jumping the track sooner. when a good number of rounds have been fired. The tab (lug) on most new or like new Chinese rifles I've measured run about about .080-.090 wide depending on the particular rifle. USGI spec. for new is .095-.100 just for reference. Also, the stud on the bottom of the Chinese tab (lug) usually run slightly shorter than USGI spec. & that alone contributes to Chinese op-rods jumping the track sooner. I've welded & machined a good number of USGI & Chinese op-rods with the Chinese rods being in the 65%-75% of basket cases. Another cause for op-rods jumping the track on Chinese rifles is the lack of correct downward tension needed to keep the tab in the groove. Bending or adjusting an op-rod can eliminate the need for welding the tabs on some but, sooner or later building up the tab to new spec. will be needed. The same op-rod adjustments are typically done on M1's if a builder knows how. The Chinese rifles are very good for the most part but, if guys take measurements on different parts like the barrel you'll quickly find big differences. The rear sight assembly on some rifles are perfect examples of the lack of quality control done by the chinese. . I'll take this over Arfcom or any magazine article. By the way My Norinco you did work on including welding up the op rod tab. Still runs like a top!! |
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Quoted: Having your choice of receivers for a build, what receiver manufacturer would you recommend or do you have a preference of some vs others. My understanding is that the Chinese receivers themselves are about as good as you can get for a non USGI M14 build.Having worked on 1000's of Chinese rifles, I can say that the tab (receiver lug) is not to exact mil-std. Poly's or Norc's will have the problem of jumping the track sooner. when a good number of rounds have been fired. The tab (lug) on most new or like new Chinese rifles I've measured run about about .080-.090 wide depending on the particular rifle. USGI spec. for new is .095-.100 just for reference. Also, the stud on the bottom of the Chinese tab (lug) usually run slightly shorter than USGI spec. & that alone contributes to Chinese op-rods jumping the track sooner. I've welded & machined a good number of USGI & Chinese op-rods with the Chinese rods being in the 65%-75% of basket cases. Another cause for op-rods jumping the track on Chinese rifles is the lack of correct downward tension needed to keep the tab in the groove. Bending or adjusting an op-rod can eliminate the need for welding the tabs on some but, sooner or later building up the tab to new spec. will be needed. The same op-rod adjustments are typically done on M1's if a builder knows how. The Chinese rifles are very good for the most part but, if guys take measurements on different parts like the barrel you'll quickly find big differences. The rear sight assembly on some rifles are perfect examples of the lack of quality control done by the chinese. . |
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My understanding is that the Chinese receivers themselves are about as good as you can get for a non USGI M14 build. That's also my understanding and it's been confirmed many times. Because new Chinese receivers are not available I'll bet money that WCG picks LRB... |
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Having worked on 1000's of Chinese rifles, I can say that the tab (receiver lug) is not to exact mil-std. Poly's or Norc's will have the problem of jumping the track sooner. when a good number of rounds have been fired. The tab (lug) on most new or like new Chinese rifles I've measured run about about .080-.090 wide depending on the particular rifle. USGI spec. for new is .095-.100 just for reference. Also, the stud on the bottom of the Chinese tab (lug) usually run slightly shorter than USGI spec. & that alone contributes to Chinese op-rods jumping the track sooner. I've welded & machined a good number of USGI & Chinese op-rods with the Chinese rods being in the 65%-75% of basket cases. Another cause for op-rods jumping the track on Chinese rifles is the lack of correct downward tension needed to keep the tab in the groove. Bending or adjusting an op-rod can eliminate the need for welding the tabs on some but, sooner or later building up the tab to new spec. will be needed. The same op-rod adjustments are typically done on M1's if a builder knows how. The Chinese rifles are very good for the most part but, if guys take measurements on different parts like the barrel you'll quickly find big differences. The rear sight assembly on some rifles are perfect examples of the lack of quality control done by the chinese. . I'll take this over Arfcom or any magazine article. By the way My Norinco you did work on including welding up the op rod tab. Still runs like a top!! Thanks. I bet you'll be saying that 20 years from now. Keep it fed & maintained & it will last a lifetime. Quoted:
Having your choice of receivers for a build, what receiver manufacturer would you recommend or do you have a preference of some vs others. My understanding is that the Chinese receivers themselves are about as good as you can get for a non USGI M14 build. So far the Chinese receivers are the closest to GI spec. that I've seen with the exception of needing minor fitting & addition to relief cuts & beveled radius where needed inside. The Fulton receivers would be my 2nd choice. The receiver lug locations have been right on with 99.9% of them. Very little fitting needed & they headspace good with USGI or Criterion chromed barrels. Quoted:
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My understanding is that the Chinese receivers themselves are about as good as you can get for a non USGI M14 build. That's also my understanding and it's been confirmed many times. Because new Chinese receivers are not available I'll bet money that WCG picks LRB... How much are you wagering ? The fact is, LRB receivers have always needed lots of work. A few I've seen were so far out of spec. I refused to build on them. To many problems for what they cost. Yeah, they're forged but, guys get caught up with that. When 1 problem gets fixed (albeit after a long time) another crops up. The latest problem is receiver lugs to far forward. Those should be barreled with a non chromed barrels. If you set the receiver lugs back, the receiver bridge will be to short. They advertise USGI spec. but, they're far from from GI spec. Cast or forged makes no difference if the heat treating is correct for each. The commercial receivers are rated for 450,000 rounds the same as USGI. At least from the info. I got from all the different receiver manufactures. |
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WSG, thank you for bringing your wealth of knowledge into our conversation! As some of us could only recite bits of knowledge, while others doubted. Again, thanks for your contribution to this forum! You think what he posted somehow validated what you posted? BTW, you should come to this thread, we thought of you.
http://www.ar15.com/forums/t_6_6/362646_Springfield_m1a_bolt_roller_the_third_time_.html |
| Yup, but we are looking at conflicting issues, bolts with loose rollers, V. Op-Rods with out of spec. tensions and out of spec. dimensioned op-rod tabs. These issues can be remedied. If I had the time and the money in the day I would have had my Poly worked over by the likes of WCG. It is what it is. |
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Yup, but we are looking at conflicting issues, bolts with loose rollers, V. Op-Rods with out of spec. tensions and out of spec. dimensioned op-rod tabs. These issues can be remedied. If I had the time and the money in the day I would have had my Poly worked over by the likes of WCG. It is what it is. Still not "famous". Tell ya what, I ain't gonna correspond with you any more except to say this about you and "famous"....................... 
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Yup, but we are looking at conflicting issues, bolts with loose rollers, V. Op-Rods with out of spec. tensions and out of spec. dimensioned op-rod tabs. These issues can be remedied. If I had the time and the money in the day I would have had my Poly worked over by the likes of WCG. It is what it is. Still not "famous". Tell ya what, I ain't gonna correspond with you any more except to say this about you and "famous".......................
Well I'm glad that you are no longer in the market for a product that has not been available since the early 1990's. Since some of that said product is out of spec. The actual percentage of out of specification product is unfortunately only conjecture? Fortunately a large portion of said product is salvageable. |
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Yup, but we are looking at conflicting issues, bolts with loose rollers, V. Op-Rods with out of spec. tensions and out of spec. dimensioned op-rod tabs. These issues can be remedied. If I had the time and the money in the day I would have had my Poly worked over by the likes of WCG. It is what it is. Still not "famous". Tell ya what, I ain't gonna correspond with you any more except to say this about you and "famous".......................
Well I'm glad that you are no longer in the market for a product that has not been available since the early 1990's. Since some of that said product is out of spec. The actual percentage of out of specification product is unfortunately only conjecture? Fortunately a large portion of said product is salvageable. Where did you get "no longer in the market" or anything even related? You just make stuff up as you go? I have one and have had it for 10 years. It works great. It has never done the crap you keep babbling about and if you start a poll on Polytech owners you will find that most will tell you that you don't know what you are talking about. But I guess you just can't stop yourself. |
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Shoot if I could have possibly have known of the expertise that had grown out of these rifles, I would have kept mine. But to pretend, what had had come out of commie China was perfect, is surly naive. No one said it was perfect, but there you go making stuff up again. What is naive is someone who doesn't know spouting off about "famous". |
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WSG, thank you for bringing your wealth of knowledge into our conversation! You're very welcome. I'll try to get some measurements of a few Chinese op-rod tabs so guys will have a ball park figure for future reference. It may take a few days to collect the data. Quoted:
Op-Rods with out of spec. tensions and out of spec. dimensioned op-rod tabs. These issues can be remedied. I agree 100%. If it's a high priced part & repairs are made correctly, you save $$$, not a bad thing. Quoted:
Still not "famous". It's been famous with me & I bet it will be with everyone else too before this thread is done. I don't think the Chinese had long term service in mind when they considered fitment of parts. They just replace parts as needed do to the low forced labor cost. |
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WSG, thank you for bringing your wealth of knowledge into our conversation! You're very welcome. I'll try to get some measurements of a few Chinese op-rod tabs so guys will have a ball park figure for future reference. It may take a few days to collect the data. Quoted:
Op-Rods with out of spec. tensions and out of spec. dimensioned op-rod tabs. These issues can be remedied. I agree 100%. If it's a high priced part & repairs are made correctly, you save $$$, not a bad thing. Quoted:
Still not "famous". It's been famous with me & I bet it will be with everyone else too before this thread is done. I don't think the Chinese had long term service in mind when they considered fitment of parts. They just replace parts as needed do to the low forced labor cost. Well, being "famous" with you does not make it famous. Do you know what famous means? It means "well known". YOU knowing something does not make it famous and you seeing it on a few examples does not make it famous. How many have you seen do it? I and many other M14S owners never heard of such a thing before this thread, so obviously it's not that "famous". I never said it has not ever happened, but prevelant, i.e. "famous", it is not. In this thread, people were talking about Garands doing it as well. Are they "famous" for it? |
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Polytechs, are famous for op-rods popping out of their tracks. Other than trash talk from Fulton Armory, this is the very 1st time I have heard this nonsense. This member speaks the truth!! It amazing how much bullshit is on the web, and even before the web started the bull was deep. My neighbor that I go shooting with had heard the the bolts would blast through the receiver and in-bed into the shooters face on the norinco ak's
Thanks! 
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Per Kuhnhausen's service rifle manual, original specifications for M14 op rod receiver guide stud dimensions are: width: .100" -.005"; height .320" -.003"; length: .330" -.010". Op rod guide stud/receiver fit note: Because of the op rod guide slot and dismount notch dimensional differences found in commercial M14 receivers, M14 operating rods should be selected first for rod arm and tube section straightness and then selected for, or adjusted to, an approximate .010" top guide stud clearance inside the (deburred) receiver guide stud slot. The op rod guide stud should be tall enough to drag slightly as the operating rod is dismounted from the receiver. So if your width is less than .095"; height less than .317; length less than .320" would be out of tolerance. They can be rebuilt by TIG welding by someone that knows what they are doing." To help Warbird out, here are the spec from my 3 Polytechs. #1. Side marked, #135XX, length...... .333", width....... .085", height....... .319" #2. Heel marked, #008XX, length........ .331", width..... .085", height....... .321" #3. Side marked, #266XX, length......... .309", width..... .081", height........ .303" #1 is the tightest and #3 being the loosest in gun fit. Tabs are not cut square. The front of the tab is angled towards the rear and angled from inboard to outboard. |
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I and many other M14S owners never heard of such a thing before this thread, so obviously it's not that "famous". Are they "famous" for it? So now you speak for everyone else ? How about letting others speak for themselves & practice what you preach. Op-rods jumping the track is "FAMOUS" regardless of the model. It's the nature of the beast if they're undersize or worn. Just because you haven't heard of doesn't mean it don't happen. Op-rods jumping the track is "FAMOUS" on M1's, M-14's, M1A's, etc. I've read numerous threads on different forums of op-rods jumping the track for various reasons. Op-rods are "FAMOUS" for jumping the track.
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To help Warbird out, here are the spec from my 3 Polytechs. #1. Side marked, #135XX, length...... .333", width....... .085", height....... .319" #2. Heel marked, #008XX, length........ .331", width..... .085", height....... .321" #3. Side marked, #266XX, length......... .309", width..... .081", height........ .303" #1 is the tightest and #3 being the loosest in gun fit. Tabs are not cut square. The front of the tab is angled towards the rear and angled from inboard to outboard. Those numbers are in the same range as 2 others I just measured. .315- .082- .317 .312- .084- .319 |
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