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Posted: 10/24/2010 8:14:53 AM EDT
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went to the range yesterday and it was so foggy that I spent most of my time picking up nasty range brass. So I dropped it all in a bucket of hot water, dish soap and Lemishine and now some of it is pink.
1.) Why? 2.) How do I get it back to a normal color? Thanks fellers |
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This question comes up at about once a month. It is brass tarnish or rust or whatever you want to call it. It will come out if you tumble it long enough. The more funky the brass is to begin with (tarnish) the more pink the brass will be when you put it in Lemishine.
You can also use a little less Lemishine. I think that will reduce the pink effect a little. Again, it will tumble off if you tumble it long enough. jonblack |
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This question comes up at about once a month. It is brass tarnish or rust or whatever you want to call it. It will come out if you tumble it long enough. The more funky the brass is to begin with (tarnish) the more pink the brass will be when you put it in Lemishine. You can also use a little less Lemishine. I think that will reduce the pink effect a little. Again, it will tumble off if you tumble it long enough. jonblack To much Lemishine, this happens because to much zinc was removed from the brass. |
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This question comes up at about once a month. It is brass tarnish or rust or whatever you want to call it. It will come out if you tumble it long enough. The more funky the brass is to begin with (tarnish) the more pink the brass will be when you put it in Lemishine. You can also use a little less Lemishine. I think that will reduce the pink effect a little. Again, it will tumble off if you tumble it long enough. jonblack It is from leaching zinc out of the brass and leaving the copper behind. It can significantly weaken the brass. But hey, you are only trying to control a few tens of thousands of PSI of hot gasses. |
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This question comes up at about once a month. It is brass tarnish or rust or whatever you want to call it. It will come out if you tumble it long enough. The more funky the brass is to begin with (tarnish) the more pink the brass will be when you put it in Lemishine. You can also use a little less Lemishine. I think that will reduce the pink effect a little. Again, it will tumble off if you tumble it long enough. jonblack To much Lemishine, this happens because to much zinc was removed from the brass. Not really. The surface of the brass had a lot of gunk on it which allowed the citric acid in the Lemishine to cause the gunk's chemistry to interact with the brass. The zinc wasn't "removed" from the brass, but the remnants of the tarnish are bonded to the brass and that's where the reaction happens. Tumbling brass that went pink from Lemishine will almost always make it nice and golden again. |
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This question comes up at about once a month. It is brass tarnish or rust or whatever you want to call it. It will come out if you tumble it long enough. The more funky the brass is to begin with (tarnish) the more pink the brass will be when you put it in Lemishine. You can also use a little less Lemishine. I think that will reduce the pink effect a little. Again, it will tumble off if you tumble it long enough. jonblack To much Lemishine, this happens because to much zinc was removed from the brass. Not really. The surface of the brass had a lot of gunk on it which allowed the citric acid in the Lemishine to cause the gunk's chemistry to interact with the brass. The zinc wasn't "removed" from the brass, but the remnants of the tarnish are bonded to the brass and that's where the reaction happens. Tumbling brass that went pink from Lemishine will almost always make it nice and golden again. So should I toss pink brass or is it safe to use? I got a lot of brass yesterday and I haven't looked at any of it yet, I soaked it last night and it is currently in the tumbler. When it is nice and clean I will start picking through it. But if the pink brass is crap I'll go pick it out now so it doesn't try to de-pink itself and fool me. |
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Pink is not a problem. It is the result of the TARNISH reacting with the acid in the Lemishine, not the brass. The blacker the surface tarnish is, the pinker the result. A good tumble will polish the pink away. I have old LC brass from the early 70's that was very black, and then very pink. It polished up just fine, and has 3 or 4 reloads on it since. Pink is GTG. |
| Sell on GB as komeni for the cure pink cases........this time of year about anything you see is pink for that cause........Saw some Duracell batteries a couple bucks higher than usual sell....good for only once a year deal however as saw new in Walmart high retail and older vintage at Big Lots for half that |
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Never heard such nonsense, it's not reacting with the tarnish on the brass at all, I have seen new brass with nothing but powder residue on it turn pink from both Lemishine & from Brichwood Casey brass case cleaner, both times was the result of using to much cleaner and the brass turned pink so I tossed it, sure it may have still been good but .223 brass is cheap so why bother.
Use less cleaner next time and I bet it doesn't turn pink tarnished or not. 
ETA: I didn't mean the zinc was removed completely from the brass but a small amount on the outside great enough to cause the discoloration was removed/affected, probably not enough to hurt the brass as it probably only effects the outside. |
| My theory is that it is cold plating the copper residue onto the surface of the brass. Most acids solutions will carry metals like copper, and deposit them on the surface of another metal if the conditions are right. It tumbles off, so no big deal. Also, if you can use it as a selling point to save some ta-tas then more power to you. |
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Never heard such nonsense, it's not reacting with the tarnish on the brass at all, I have seen new brass with nothing but powder residue on it turn pink from both Lemishine & from Brichwood Casey brass case cleaner, both times was the result of using to much cleaner and the brass turned pink so I tossed it, sure it may have still been good but .223 brass is cheap so why bother. Use less cleaner next time and I bet it doesn't turn pink tarnished or not.
ETA: I didn't mean the zinc was removed completely from the brass but a small amount on the outside great enough to cause the discoloration was removed/affected, probably not enough to hurt the brass as it probably only effects the outside. The "react with tarnish" effect is something I've seen with splotchy tarnish. The pink only shows up on the spots that were badly tarnished. On the other hand, using vinegar without a good neutralizer tends to make brass pink all over as much as Lemishine does. Your added clarification, however, changes how I understand your earlier post. I agree that too much acid-or too long a soak in a weaker solution-can cause the brass to go pink no matter what. |
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Never heard such nonsense, it's not reacting with the tarnish on the brass at all, I have seen new brass with nothing but powder residue on it turn pink from both Lemishine & from Brichwood Casey brass case cleaner, both times was the result of using to much cleaner and the brass turned pink so I tossed it, sure it may have still been good but .223 brass is cheap so why bother. Use less cleaner next time and I bet it doesn't turn pink tarnished or not.
ETA: I didn't mean the zinc was removed completely from the brass but a small amount on the outside great enough to cause the discoloration was removed/affected, probably not enough to hurt the brass as it probably only effects the outside. The "react with tarnish" effect is something I've seen with splotchy tarnish. The pink only shows up on the spots that were badly tarnished. On the other hand, using vinegar without a good neutralizer tends to make brass pink all over as much as Lemishine does. Your added clarification, however, changes how I understand your earlier post. I agree that too much acid-or too long a soak in a weaker solution-can cause the brass to go pink no matter what. Actually the "pink" brass is what we in the trade call "feminine" brass. The "masculine" brass will be blue in color.  
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So should I toss pink brass or is it safe to use? I got a lot of brass yesterday and I haven't looked at any of it yet, I soaked it last night and it is currently in the tumbler. When it is nice and clean I will start picking through it. But if the pink brass is crap I'll go pick it out now so it doesn't try to de-pink itself and fool me. The brass is safe. Don't worry about the pink. Tumble the brass and the pink will come off. Then load, shoot, and repeat. I have a feeling there is a lot of internet folklore in this thread. I will stand corrected when someone posts a link to a technical article from a reputable source that validates the claims being made. jonblack |
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So should I toss pink brass or is it safe to use? I got a lot of brass yesterday and I haven't looked at any of it yet, I soaked it last night and it is currently in the tumbler. When it is nice and clean I will start picking through it. But if the pink brass is crap I'll go pick it out now so it doesn't try to de-pink itself and fool me. The brass is safe. Don't worry about the pink. Tumble the brass and the pink will come off. Then load, shoot, and repeat. I have a feeling there is a lot of internet folklore in this thread. I will stand corrected when someone posts a link to a technical article from a reputable source that validates the claims being made. jonblack Which claims? The statements from many of us that brass turned pink by acid cleaning polishes up fine? That it's safe? |
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Which claims? The statements from many of us that brass turned pink by acid cleaning polishes up fine? That it's safe? The claims to which I was referring were: this happens because to much zinc was removed from the brass It is from leaching zinc out of the brass and leaving the copper behind. It can significantly weaken the brass. I don't mean to single anyone out, nor cause offense to anyone by disagreeing to the above statements. Again, my opinion is that these viewpoints are internet folklore. I could be wrong, and will stand corrected if proven wrong. You'll notice I was the first to respond to the op in this thread and told him the pink will tumble out (tumble off). I also said in my post that you quoted that "The brass is safe. Don't worry about the pink. Tumble the brass and the pink will come off." So, we are on the same page if you also say the pink will tumble off and that pink brass is safe. Just to clarify my standpoint: Pink brass will tumble clean. Pink brass is safe. jonblack |
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Now I understand. It wasn't completely clear (to me) that you hadn't changed your stance-this happens here from time to time.
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Which claims? The statements from many of us that brass turned pink by acid cleaning polishes up fine? That it's safe? The claims to which I was referring were: this happens because to much zinc was removed from the brass It is from leaching zinc out of the brass and leaving the copper behind. It can significantly weaken the brass. I don't mean to single anyone out, nor cause offense to anyone by disagreeing to the above statements. Again, my opinion is that these viewpoints are internet folklore. I could be wrong, and will stand corrected if proven wrong. You'll notice I was the first to respond to the op in this thread and told him the pink will tumble out (tumble off). I also said in my post that you quoted that "The brass is safe. Don't worry about the pink. Tumble the brass and the pink will come off." So, we are on the same page if you also say the pink will tumble off and that pink brass is safe. Just to clarify my standpoint: Pink brass will tumble clean. Pink brass is safe. jonblack I haven't seen anyone back up negative claims with any evidence or research. Instead they seem to simply continue repeating "what they heard." On the other hand, metalurgically, everything I can find points to an infinitesimal external layer of metal being affected; Texas A&M's Conservation Laboratory refers to using citric acid on copper alloys "with caution" because the acid can react with certain copper compounds that develop over extended time periods-but not that the alloy itself is damaged. Since zinc is much more electrochemically active than copper, it makes sense that the process reacts more with zinc, but I haven't found any reliable source that indicates this is actually what causes brass to turn pink in acids. Finally, many, many people on this forum have all stated they have actually USED brass that had turned pink in various solutions without any negative results. |
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This has been asked and answered so many times I wonder why it is not in the FAQs considering that the search function for “regular” users on this site is completely usless.
Here is the answer one more time. When copper from the brass rust, there are two types of rust – copper (I) oxide and copper (II) oxide. Badly rusted brass will have both types. You can dissolve copper (II) which is black in color with Lemishine since it is soluble in weak acid which is what Lemishine is. The other type of rust i.e. copper(I) oxide is red in color and is not soluble in Lemishine. When Lemishine dissolves the copper(II) oxide, it exposes and leaves the copper(I) behind and so the brass “turns” pink. So in actuality, Lemishine does not cause the brass to turn pink, it just exposes the other oxide that is still there. Tumbling will remove this other oxide and the brass is safe. For more info and color info on the two oxide, read here: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Copper(I)_oxide Notice the red color http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Copper(II)_oxide |
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