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Posted: 1/3/2016 9:37:03 AM EDT
| I'm wanting to get a powered case trimmer. I will be purchasing a Dillon XL650 this year (probably early summer). Should I get the Dillon trimmer or get the Giraud powered trimmer? |
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Quoted: I'm wanting to get a powered case trimmer. I will be purchasing a Dillon XL650 this year (probably early summer). Should I get the Dillon trimmer or get the Giraud powered trimmer? Depends if you want fast and noisy = Dillon. Or want deburred inside and out cases that don't have to be resized and a quiet to operate machine = Giraud. I went Giraud after using the Dillon trimmer. Just depends on what's important to you. |
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I have a Dillon 1200 on my LNL and love it. Mine is set up for .223, and I love trimming as I size the brass. The Dillon trim dies tend to over size the case neck so I run a Redding carbide expander through it after the trim die to set the neck tension. The Dillon trims the brass very squarely, leaving no burr inside or out. Chamferring is optional, sometimes I will, sometimes I won't. No problem seating bullets whether they're flat base or boat tail. |
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I have a Gracey trimmer I picked up cheap. I installed a better motor and the carbide bit that Giraud uses. It works excellent.
I just added a Dillon RT1500 to my Hornady LnL press. I am using it for .223 right now. Yes the vacuum running makes it noisy but it makes it easy to spit out sized and trimmed cases by the hundred. I am thinking the Gracey may go up for sale soon. On the fence about it. My carpal tunnel ridden hands hurt after sizing 1-200 cases on the If you are reloading on a progressive get the Dillon. If you are reloading on a single stage or turret a Giraud or Dillon are good. I would give the edge to Giraud because of vacuum noise with the Dillon. The Gracey is a good trimmer too but figure to replace the motor that comes with it and install the Giraud type blade. So unless you get a Gracey cheap or already upgraded just buy the Giraud. |
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Another Dillon vote. (Not sure what changed in the new version they released last year, I'm guessing just a bit more power. *shrug*.)
Either way, the 1200 has been fan-damn-tastic for my impatient needs. My prep toolhead deprimes, full length sizes, trims, and i use a sizing die backed out to just resize the neck inner diameter on the last station. I've only used boat tail bullets (hornady 55gr, fmj bt w/c) but never have any issues with any burrs or chamfer problems. I'm not a big fan of any process that takes place off-press as that's just one more time every piece has to be manually handled. |
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It's always funny to see people who shoot guns complain about "noise".... hehe.
If you shoot guns, chances are you have a good set of ear protection. Mine has a jack that I can plug into if I want to play music. I prefer listening to my own head sometimes. My wife wouldn't say the same. The Dillon vs Giraud comes up so often. They are for two completely different purposes IMO. Dillon didn't build theirs for perfect accuracy.. heck, they are normally used on Progressive presses which are arguably not for precision shooting. If you want to trim thousand(s) of cases (what most of us need), then buy a Dillon. If you want to sit and trim a few hundred accurate cases, buy a Giraud. The chamfer/debur argument is silly. I wet tumble after my cases go through the Dillon. That cleans up the mouth enough to seat a bullet. Never had an issue. For any real precision rounds, I use a Wilson trimmer. |
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Quoted:
It's always funny to see people who shoot guns complain about "noise".... hehe. If you shoot guns, chances are you have a good set of ear protection. Mine has a jack that I can plug into if I want to play music. I prefer listening to my own head sometimes. My wife wouldn't say the same. The Dillon vs Giraud comes up so often. They are for two completely different purposes IMO. Dillon didn't build theirs for perfect accuracy.. heck, they are normally used on Progressive presses which are arguably not for precision shooting. If you want to trim thousand(s) of cases (what most of us need), then buy a Dillon. If you want to sit and trim a few hundred accurate cases, buy a Giraud. The chamfer/debur argument is silly. I wet tumble after my cases go through the Dillon. That cleans up the mouth enough to seat a bullet. Never had an issue. For any real precision rounds, I use a Wilson trimmer. Not so silly. Standard machining practice is to chamfer the edges of any interference fit parts. Just because something is possible doesn't mean it is correct. |
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It's always funny to see people who shoot guns complain about "noise".... hehe. If you shoot guns, chances are you have a good set of ear protection. Mine has a jack that I can plug into if I want to play music. I prefer listening to my own head sometimes. My wife wouldn't say the same. The Dillon vs Giraud comes up so often. They are for two completely different purposes IMO. Dillon didn't build theirs for perfect accuracy.. heck, they are normally used on Progressive presses which are arguably not for precision shooting. If you want to trim thousand(s) of cases (what most of us need), then buy a Dillon. If you want to sit and trim a few hundred accurate cases, buy a Giraud. The chamfer/debur argument is silly. I wet tumble after my cases go through the Dillon. That cleans up the mouth enough to seat a bullet. Never had an issue. For any real precision rounds, I use a Wilson trimmer. Sounds like it's good enough for you. I wouldnt say it's silly to chamfer and debur. Have you seen the end result of a case trimmed by the Giraud? It's beautiful. Every case is uniform and the bullet seats oh so smooth. |
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Giraud's benchtop trimmer is excellent. When your cutter and depth are properly adjusted, and you use the trimmer consistently, the cases are extremely consistent in length. The thing I have against the Dillon press-mounted trimmer isn't the noise, it's the fact that it requires a special sizing die - an expensive one, in fact - and sometimes way more expensive. Have they finally managed to make a 7.62X39 trimmer/sizer that uses the regular motor?
Anyway, after you buy the Giraud trimmer, you only have to shell out for case holders for the calibers you load, and while you can get away with using the same cutter head for everything, I avoid having to tinker with that by having a separate cutter for the three bullet diameters I load. Cutters and case holders are not terribly expensive. |
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Good enough for many.. I didn't get the idea myself. I found many references to it and tried it. Thousands of rounds have proven to me it works. Would I use this method if I wanted to compete at 1k yards? No... How many of us do that?
I am sure the Giraud makes a beautiful cut. I am ok with not spending the money on a Giraud. I used a WFT for a while before moving to Dillon. You can't tell me that the Giraud is any less painful on the hands to use than the WFT. Bulk trimming on WFT is just too hard on my hands. While I have not used a Giraud... I have seen enough others complain about the same thing. So, I will keep my Dillon and process. I am no Blue Koolaid guy so take that for what its worth. Quoted:
Sounds like it's good enough for you. I wouldnt say it's silly to chamfer and debur. Have you seen the end result of a case trimmed by the Giraud? It's beautiful. Every case is uniform and the bullet seats oh so smooth. Quoted:
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It's always funny to see people who shoot guns complain about "noise".... hehe. If you shoot guns, chances are you have a good set of ear protection. Mine has a jack that I can plug into if I want to play music. I prefer listening to my own head sometimes. My wife wouldn't say the same. The Dillon vs Giraud comes up so often. They are for two completely different purposes IMO. Dillon didn't build theirs for perfect accuracy.. heck, they are normally used on Progressive presses which are arguably not for precision shooting. If you want to trim thousand(s) of cases (what most of us need), then buy a Dillon. If you want to sit and trim a few hundred accurate cases, buy a Giraud. The chamfer/debur argument is silly. I wet tumble after my cases go through the Dillon. That cleans up the mouth enough to seat a bullet. Never had an issue. For any real precision rounds, I use a Wilson trimmer. Sounds like it's good enough for you. I wouldnt say it's silly to chamfer and debur. Have you seen the end result of a case trimmed by the Giraud? It's beautiful. Every case is uniform and the bullet seats oh so smooth. |
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Giraud's benchtop trimmer is excellent. When your cutter and depth are properly adjusted, and you use the trimmer consistently, the cases are extremely consistent in length. The thing I have against the Dillon press-mounted trimmer isn't the noise, it's the fact that it requires a special sizing die - an expensive one, in fact - and sometimes way more expensive. Have they finally managed to make a 7.62X39 trimmer/sizer that uses the regular motor? Anyway, after you buy the Giraud trimmer, you only have to shell out for case holders for the calibers you load, and while you can get away with using the same cutter head for everything, I avoid having to tinker with that by having a separate cutter for the three bullet diameters I load. Cutters and case holders are not terribly expensive. Quoted:
Giraud's benchtop trimmer is excellent. When your cutter and depth are properly adjusted, and you use the trimmer consistently, the cases are extremely consistent in length. The thing I have against the Dillon press-mounted trimmer isn't the noise, it's the fact that it requires a special sizing die - an expensive one, in fact - and sometimes way more expensive. Have they finally managed to make a 7.62X39 trimmer/sizer that uses the regular motor? Anyway, after you buy the Giraud trimmer, you only have to shell out for case holders for the calibers you load, and while you can get away with using the same cutter head for everything, I avoid having to tinker with that by having a separate cutter for the three bullet diameters I load. Cutters and case holders are not terribly expensive. IIRC Dave's 7.62x39 die uses the same trimmer as .223. Trying to figure the difference between buying "special sizing dies" @ $63 or Cutters and case holders $80 Every case is uniform and the bullet seats oh so smooth. not going to seat any smoother then brass processed off a RT1500 trimmer tool head set-up and while your still trimming I'm reloading |
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All depends what you want to use it for.
The Giraud can also be used for bullet tip trimming as well. http://www.giraudtool.com/ http://www.giraudtool.com/meplat.htm Note, before you trim brass, it has to be sized first. A press mounted trimmer is great if you are just going to run the brass through the machine in a few passes instead. Hence if you need to process say LC once fired brass, and where you would set up a decapper die, swager, trimmer with trimming die, then sizer turn up about two winds in the press, to process the cleaned brass in a first pass through the machine ( before running it a second time through the machine to acutal reload the brass). Note, the trimmer die is going to full size the case, so it really just the sizer button that you want to run through the cases before its kicked out the machine. So with the sizer cranked up a few winds, the sizing button still goes through the case necks to expander the necks and knock any burs off the inside of the cause mouth, and the sizer neck section will deal with any burs still on the ouside of the case mouths. What is still left, will be knocked off when you tumble the case once again to remove the last of the trimmer debries/case lube. So the note here, a univeral decapping die will work with all the calibers you need to trim, and don't need to pick up a M die in each caliber, since you already have a sizer in each to use as your final die instead. The down side, with a press mounted trimmer, you need to get a case trimmer die in each caliber you are trimming (about $50 a caliber). Hence the trimmer dies sizes the case as it being pushed into the trim dies and holds the case from rotating as the trimmer in cutting the cases to lenght. As for press mounted trimmers if you decide to go that way, do you need to go store bought unit with something like a Dillon 1500, or do you have skills to convert a router instead? Honey badger trimmer adapter that used a Bosch 1617EVS for it's motor if you have a router already that you want to convert over and need ideals http://fastandfriendlybrass.com/shop/item.aspx/honey-badger-trimmer-adapter/34/ Myself, used a Makita 3606 since I had it on hand/made an adapter for it, and a insert holder that uses TT-321s insert with a wide enough cutting radius that trimming even 600 nitro case still does not use the tips of the cutter. As for motor speed controller, just a outlet with a Light switch dimmer on it to slow the router way down since its a single speed unit (30K). |
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As for press mounted trimmers if you decide to go that way, do you need to go store bought unit with something like a Dillon 1500, or do you have skills to convert a router instead? Honey badger trimmer adapter that used a Bosch 1617EVS for it's motor if you have a router already that you want to convert over and need ideals http://fastandfriendlybrass.com/shop/item.aspx/honey-badger-trimmer-adapter/34/ Kick ass ! 
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Kick ass ! Yup, and since routers have internal fans, they can be run for hours at their lower speeds without getting hot to the touch at all.. So motor wise if you go with the Bosch, you can pick it up for $144 at home depot, and throw a protection plan it for $18 to cover it for a second year, and still under the cost of just the 1500 motor that is only covered for a year instead. Just the 1500 motor alone is $299 if you burn one up after a year of purchase. https://www.dillonprecision.com/content/p/9/pid/26199/catid/8/RT1500_Electric_Case_Trimmer___Motor_Only Bosch motor, http://www.homedepot.com/p/Bosch-11-Amp-2-25-HP-Corded-Single-Speed-Router-Motor-with-10-Ft-Cord-16171/203358960?cm_mmc=Shopping|THD|G|0|G-BASE-PLA-D25T-PowerTools|&gclid=CMPYj_vtkMoCFYMDaQodC4IP-g&gclsrc=aw.ds http://www.homedepot.com/p/The-Home-Depot-2-Year-Protection-Plan-for-Power-Tools-150-199-99-R24POW200/205580215 As for a index able boring bar, if you get ahold of someone like Mesa tools, they can make you a 3/8" by 2.5" out of there 1/2 boring bars for around $30, and uses TPGB-21.51 that you can get for around $7 each . If you have a lathe (or know some that does), then pick up the 1/2"x 3" mesa tools boring bar, shorten and turn the end to 3/8" for the rotor instead. Hence with the 1/2 bar end turned down, your good up to 700 nitro brass trimming with out problems of the cutter not reaching far enough over. http://www.ch4d.com/products/dies/caliber-list?page=70 
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IIRC Dave's 7.62x39 die uses the same trimmer as .223. Trying to figure the difference between buying "special sizing dies" @ $63 or Cutters and case holders $80 Quoted:
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Giraud's benchtop trimmer is excellent. When your cutter and depth are properly adjusted, and you use the trimmer consistently, the cases are extremely consistent in length. The thing I have against the Dillon press-mounted trimmer isn't the noise, it's the fact that it requires a special sizing die - an expensive one, in fact - and sometimes way more expensive. Have they finally managed to make a 7.62X39 trimmer/sizer that uses the regular motor? Anyway, after you buy the Giraud trimmer, you only have to shell out for case holders for the calibers you load, and while you can get away with using the same cutter head for everything, I avoid having to tinker with that by having a separate cutter for the three bullet diameters I load. Cutters and case holders are not terribly expensive. IIRC Dave's 7.62x39 die uses the same trimmer as .223. Trying to figure the difference between buying "special sizing dies" @ $63 or Cutters and case holders $80 From Dillon's page for the 1500 Rapid Trim sizing die page: 7.62x39 and 6.8 SPC NOTE: The 7.62x39 and 6.8 SPC trimmer motor #22024 is unique to these two calibers, and is not compatible with any other size/trim dies. Since Giraud's cutters are bullet diameter-specific, not caliber specific, I can use the same cutter for all calibers that use .308" bullets. And I could either add a cutter for a different bullet diameter for $45, or simply adjust the carbide cutter in the cutter head to match the diameter you need to trim to. If you wanted to go as inexpensive as possible, you would only need to buy the base machine (which comes with one cutter head and one caliber-specific case holder) and then another $35 for each different caliber you wanted to trim. I went with three cutter heads so I wouldn't have to tinker with the blades. Doing the math, to load .223, .308 and 7.62x39 would cost ($460 + $80 + $80) = $620 for a Giraud setup. For a Dillon setup, the Rapid Trim 1500 motor is $329.95, and requires a separate die for .223 and .308 (+$56.96 x2 = $113.90), and the RT1200, 7.62-specific motor at $267.95 plus an additional die at $56.95 (267.95 + 56.90 = $324.90 for a grand total of $768.80 (329.95 + 3X 56.95 + 267.95). I'm not knocking your choices, not at all. But my choices were based on these numbers. And I still don't have any idea why trimming 7.62x39 requires a separate, expensive motor. |
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From Dillon's page for the 1500 Rapid Trim sizing die page: The trimmer motor that only works for these two calibers is $267.95, and the trim dies are $56.95 each. Since Giraud's cutters are bullet diameter-specific, not caliber specific, I can use the same cutter for all calibers that use .308" bullets. And I could either add a cutter for a different bullet diameter for $45, or simply adjust the carbide cutter in the cutter head to match the diameter you need to trim to. If you wanted to go as inexpensive as possible, you would only need to buy the base machine (which comes with one cutter head and one caliber-specific case holder) and then another $35 for each different caliber you wanted to trim. I went with three cutter heads so I wouldn't have to tinker with the blades. Doing the math, to load .223, .308 and 7.62x39 would cost ($460 + $80 + $80) = $620 for a Giraud setup. For a Dillon setup, the Rapid Trim 1500 motor is $329.95, and requires a separate die for .223 and .308 (+$56.96 x2 = $113.90), and the RT1200, 7.62-specific motor at $267.95 plus an additional die at $56.95 (267.95 + 56.90 = $324.90 for a grand total of $768.80 (329.95 + 3X 56.95 + 267.95). I'm not knocking your choices, not at all. But my choices were based on these numbers. And I still don't have any idea why trimming 7.62x39 requires a separate, expensive motor. Quoted:
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Giraud's benchtop trimmer is excellent. When your cutter and depth are properly adjusted, and you use the trimmer consistently, the cases are extremely consistent in length. The thing I have against the Dillon press-mounted trimmer isn't the noise, it's the fact that it requires a special sizing die - an expensive one, in fact - and sometimes way more expensive. Have they finally managed to make a 7.62X39 trimmer/sizer that uses the regular motor? Anyway, after you buy the Giraud trimmer, you only have to shell out for case holders for the calibers you load, and while you can get away with using the same cutter head for everything, I avoid having to tinker with that by having a separate cutter for the three bullet diameters I load. Cutters and case holders are not terribly expensive. IIRC Dave's 7.62x39 die uses the same trimmer as .223. Trying to figure the difference between buying "special sizing dies" @ $63 or Cutters and case holders $80 From Dillon's page for the 1500 Rapid Trim sizing die page: 7.62x39 and 6.8 SPC NOTE: The 7.62x39 and 6.8 SPC trimmer motor #22024 is unique to these two calibers, and is not compatible with any other size/trim dies. Since Giraud's cutters are bullet diameter-specific, not caliber specific, I can use the same cutter for all calibers that use .308" bullets. And I could either add a cutter for a different bullet diameter for $45, or simply adjust the carbide cutter in the cutter head to match the diameter you need to trim to. If you wanted to go as inexpensive as possible, you would only need to buy the base machine (which comes with one cutter head and one caliber-specific case holder) and then another $35 for each different caliber you wanted to trim. I went with three cutter heads so I wouldn't have to tinker with the blades. Doing the math, to load .223, .308 and 7.62x39 would cost ($460 + $80 + $80) = $620 for a Giraud setup. For a Dillon setup, the Rapid Trim 1500 motor is $329.95, and requires a separate die for .223 and .308 (+$56.96 x2 = $113.90), and the RT1200, 7.62-specific motor at $267.95 plus an additional die at $56.95 (267.95 + 56.90 = $324.90 for a grand total of $768.80 (329.95 + 3X 56.95 + 267.95). I'm not knocking your choices, not at all. But my choices were based on these numbers. And I still don't have any idea why trimming 7.62x39 requires a separate, expensive motor. Now remove this "RT1200, 7.62-specific motor at $267.95" from your figures as it's not needed if you buy Dave's trim dies  ,
I also have a Gracey with the high out put motor along with a Giraud insert and find no advantage to it over the RT1500 and M-Die of course I've got trashed hands from too many years of commercial fishing so not handling the brass is a great savings on the hands and a big time saver overall, and making 300BLK brass is a breeze |
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Now remove this "RT1200, 7.62-specific motor at $267.95" from your figures as it's not needed if you buy Dave's trim dies ,
I also have a Gracey with the high out put motor along with a Giraud insert and find no advantage to it over the RT1500 and M-Die of course I've got trashed hands from too many years of commercial fishing so not handling the brass is a great savings on the hands and a big time saver overall, and making 300BLK brass is a breeze Quoted:
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Giraud's benchtop trimmer is excellent. When your cutter and depth are properly adjusted, and you use the trimmer consistently, the cases are extremely consistent in length. The thing I have against the Dillon press-mounted trimmer isn't the noise, it's the fact that it requires a special sizing die - an expensive one, in fact - and sometimes way more expensive. Have they finally managed to make a 7.62X39 trimmer/sizer that uses the regular motor? Anyway, after you buy the Giraud trimmer, you only have to shell out for case holders for the calibers you load, and while you can get away with using the same cutter head for everything, I avoid having to tinker with that by having a separate cutter for the three bullet diameters I load. Cutters and case holders are not terribly expensive. IIRC Dave's 7.62x39 die uses the same trimmer as .223. Trying to figure the difference between buying "special sizing dies" @ $63 or Cutters and case holders $80 From Dillon's page for the 1500 Rapid Trim sizing die page: 7.62x39 and 6.8 SPC NOTE: The 7.62x39 and 6.8 SPC trimmer motor #22024 is unique to these two calibers, and is not compatible with any other size/trim dies. Since Giraud's cutters are bullet diameter-specific, not caliber specific, I can use the same cutter for all calibers that use .308" bullets. And I could either add a cutter for a different bullet diameter for $45, or simply adjust the carbide cutter in the cutter head to match the diameter you need to trim to. If you wanted to go as inexpensive as possible, you would only need to buy the base machine (which comes with one cutter head and one caliber-specific case holder) and then another $35 for each different caliber you wanted to trim. I went with three cutter heads so I wouldn't have to tinker with the blades. Doing the math, to load .223, .308 and 7.62x39 would cost ($460 + $80 + $80) = $620 for a Giraud setup. For a Dillon setup, the Rapid Trim 1500 motor is $329.95, and requires a separate die for .223 and .308 (+$56.96 x2 = $113.90), and the RT1200, 7.62-specific motor at $267.95 plus an additional die at $56.95 (267.95 + 56.90 = $324.90 for a grand total of $768.80 (329.95 + 3X 56.95 + 267.95). I'm not knocking your choices, not at all. But my choices were based on these numbers. And I still don't have any idea why trimming 7.62x39 requires a separate, expensive motor. Now remove this "RT1200, 7.62-specific motor at $267.95" from your figures as it's not needed if you buy Dave's trim dies ,
I also have a Gracey with the high out put motor along with a Giraud insert and find no advantage to it over the RT1500 and M-Die of course I've got trashed hands from too many years of commercial fishing so not handling the brass is a great savings on the hands and a big time saver overall, and making 300BLK brass is a breeze Who is Dave? I would like a Dillion trimmer to do .223 and 6.8SPC, but don't want to have to buy 2 trimmers if poss. Thanks |
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Quoted:.....Who is Dave? .... I think he's referring to http://www.ch4d.com/ . |
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I have Dillon RT-1500 trimmers and have found a magic solution to the "interference parts" rule that says you must chamfer- I put a slight.... "GASP!!!!!".... flare on rifle case mouths.
With each pull of the handle, I decap, swage primer pockets, size/trim, then ....."GASP!!!!"...... flare the case mouth. I then wet clean which removes all traces of carbon and deburrs the case mouth. A second toolhead takes care of powder, bullets, etc. I get less than .002 run out, trim and headspace numbers are similar. Bullets are seated without galling or shaving with the result being MOA or better ammo. All without handling individual pieces of brass. |
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I have Dillon RT-1500 trimmers and have found a magic solution to the "interference parts" rule that says you must chamfer- I put a slight.... "GASP!!!!!".... flare on rifle case mouths. With each pull of the handle, I decap, swage primer pockets, size/trim, then ....."GASP!!!!"...... flare the case mouth. I then wet clean which removes all traces of carbon and deburrs the case mouth. A second toolhead takes care of powder, bullets, etc. I get less than .002 run out, trim and headspace numbers are similar. Bullets are seated without galling or shaving with the result being MOA or better ammo. All without handling individual pieces of brass. what do you flare them with ? what removes it, the bullet seater ? serious question, I've never flared rifle |
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Now remove this "RT1200, 7.62-specific motor at $267.95" from your figures as it's not needed if you buy Dave's trim dies ,
I also have a Gracey with the high out put motor along with a Giraud insert and find no advantage to it over the RT1500 and M-Die of course I've got trashed hands from too many years of commercial fishing so not handling the brass is a great savings on the hands and a big time saver overall, and making 300BLK brass is a breeze So now I'm confused. Who is "Dave" and how did I miss what I should have seen? |
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what do you flare them with ? what removes it, the bullet seater ? serious question, I've never flared rifle Quoted:
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I have Dillon RT-1500 trimmers and have found a magic solution to the "interference parts" rule that says you must chamfer- I put a slight.... "GASP!!!!!".... flare on rifle case mouths. With each pull of the handle, I decap, swage primer pockets, size/trim, then ....."GASP!!!!"...... flare the case mouth. I then wet clean which removes all traces of carbon and deburrs the case mouth. A second toolhead takes care of powder, bullets, etc. I get less than .002 run out, trim and headspace numbers are similar. Bullets are seated without galling or shaving with the result being MOA or better ammo. All without handling individual pieces of brass. what do you flare them with ? what removes it, the bullet seater ? serious question, I've never flared rifle I do all most the same as Ronnie_B , I run the m-die in station 8 and remove the flare with a taper crimp die set to just remove the flare and not crimp. I dry tumble for a hour after trimming which seems to take care of things just fine Also Dave as in CH4D |
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I use a Dillon die made for the 1050's for the swager position. It has a mandrel with a small shoulder on it that does the job nicely- My case prep setup is now as follows:
1- Case feed only 2- Lee universal decap 3- Swage die #1, adjusted for swaging 4- Primer station- not used 5- Size/trim die with RT-1500 trimmer 6- not used 7- Lee die set up for expanding only- modified universal decap with lee expander. 8- Swage die #2, set up just for flaring case mouth The die bodies in station 2, 3, 7 and 8 are adjusted to slightly preload against the shell plate which ensures the toolhead will come bottom-out the same whether or not brass is present. I cut down Hornaday Lock'n load bushings to screw onto the bottom of the size/trim die in station 5. This provides consistent preloading independent of headspace adjustments. My best analogy is that it is like a chair with 5 legs. I have similar setups on my loading toolheads, as well. |
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I have Dillon RT-1500 trimmers and have found a magic solution to the "interference parts" rule that says you must chamfer- I put a slight.... "GASP!!!!!".... flare on rifle case mouths. With each pull of the handle, I decap, swage primer pockets, size/trim, then ....."GASP!!!!"...... flare the case mouth. I then wet clean which removes all traces of carbon and deburrs the case mouth. A second toolhead takes care of powder, bullets, etc. I get less than .002 run out, trim and headspace numbers are similar. Bullets are seated without galling or shaving with the result being MOA or better ammo. All without handling individual pieces of brass. Skinning cats and all that, flaring the case mouth and then moving it back work the neck twice. More movement = more neck splits. I can get 10+ loads out of LC brass with no annealing just by working the neck as little as possible. Those that claim that the Dillon trimmer leaves no burr, please send me some cases so I can run a dial test indicator across the mouth because after 15 years of cutting metal a wire EDM is one of the only machines I've seen that leaves zero burr. |
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I have a Gracey trimmer I picked up cheap. I installed a better motor and the carbide bit that Giraud uses. It works excellent. I just added a Dillon RT1500 to my Hornady LnL press. I am using it for .223 right now. Yes the vacuum running makes it noisy but it makes it easy to spit out sized and trimmed cases by the hundred. I am thinking the Gracey may go up for sale soon. On the fence about it. My carpal tunnel ridden hands hurt after sizing 1-200 cases on the If you are reloading on a progressive get the Dillon. If you are reloading on a single stage or turret a Giraud or Dillon are good. I would give the edge to Giraud because of vacuum noise with the Dillon. The Gracey is a good trimmer too but figure to replace the motor that comes with it and install the Giraud type blade. So unless you get a Gracey cheap or already upgraded just buy the Giraud. Sir, I've said it before and I'll say it again: Even with a replacement motor and better cutter blade the Gracey trimmer is by far inferior to either the Dillon or Giraud. The Gracey trimmer uses a nineteenth century bearing design that has considerable axial thrust causing a significant variation of the trimmed case OAL. I even took it to Doyle Gracey at Camp Perry one year to see if he could show me how to set it up to eliminate the variation and even he couldn't improve it. About the best I ever got was a case length variation with lengths some where within a .004" OAL variation. If you're getting better than that great but that's simply beyond acceptable for my purposes. I've also used the Dillon trimmer for quite a few years. I had the Dillon trim dies modified internally so they would provide the desired neck tension. Not everyone has the capability to do that so your only alternative if you don't want excessive neck tension is to use an expander mandrel after trimming and resizing with the Dillon trimmer. Additionally as our Mod has mentioned if champfering the case neck is important to you you'll have to do it by hand or not at all if you use the Dillon. After many years of using the Dillon and doing the champfer by hand I bought a Giraud after initially resisting the temptation. I sold the Dillon trimmer and four different trim dies on the EE. 7zero1 out. |
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My Gracey works perfect for it's current intended application and now that I have an ogive measuring device, I can see just how accurate it is.
People who bash the Gracey never say how accurate their Ogive was prior to trimming with a Gracey. Have you looked inside most engines made today to see what their bearings are like.. yeah almost identical to what they ran when they were invented just a different material. |
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Also Dave as in CH4D I hadn't seen their trimmers before. Is THIS the trimmer you're talking about? When I posted the costs, etc, I thought I was responding to a question about my post on why I went with Giraud versus a Dillon 1200/1500 press-mounted trimmer. I'm not sure where I got sidetracked back there. 
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I hadn't seen their trimmers before. Is THIS the trimmer you're talking about? When I posted the costs, etc, I thought I was responding to a question about my post on why I went with Giraud versus a Dillon 1200/1500 press-mounted trimmer. I'm not sure where I got sidetracked back there. Quoted:
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Also Dave as in CH4D I hadn't seen their trimmers before. Is THIS the trimmer you're talking about? When I posted the costs, etc, I thought I was responding to a question about my post on why I went with Giraud versus a Dillon 1200/1500 press-mounted trimmer. I'm not sure where I got sidetracked back there. I took it to mean using these trim dies with the Dillion trimmer motor. Please correct me if I'm wrong. I would like to know too. http://www.ch4d.com/products/dies/trimming/dt |
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I took it to mean using these trim dies with the Dillion trimmer motor. Please correct me if I'm wrong. I would like to know too. http://www.ch4d.com/products/dies/trimming/dt Quoted:
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Also Dave as in CH4D I hadn't seen their trimmers before. Is THIS the trimmer you're talking about? When I posted the costs, etc, I thought I was responding to a question about my post on why I went with Giraud versus a Dillon 1200/1500 press-mounted trimmer. I'm not sure where I got sidetracked back there. I took it to mean using these trim dies with the Dillion trimmer motor. Please correct me if I'm wrong. I would like to know too. http://www.ch4d.com/products/dies/trimming/dt |
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I took it to mean using these trim dies with the Dillion trimmer motor. Please correct me if I'm wrong. I would like to know too. http://www.ch4d.com/products/dies/trimming/dt Quoted:
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Also Dave as in CH4D I hadn't seen their trimmers before. Is THIS the trimmer you're talking about? When I posted the costs, etc, I thought I was responding to a question about my post on why I went with Giraud versus a Dillon 1200/1500 press-mounted trimmer. I'm not sure where I got sidetracked back there. I took it to mean using these trim dies with the Dillion trimmer motor. Please correct me if I'm wrong. I would like to know too. http://www.ch4d.com/products/dies/trimming/dt Yes those trim dies, I'll buy them over anyone else's, as they have a window/exhaust port that works great for putting a wrench in plus they are made for about any round you can think of |
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Yes those trim dies, I'll buy them over anyone else's, as they have a window/exhaust port that works great for putting a wrench in plus they are made for about any round you can think of Quoted:
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Also Dave as in CH4D I hadn't seen their trimmers before. Is THIS the trimmer you're talking about? When I posted the costs, etc, I thought I was responding to a question about my post on why I went with Giraud versus a Dillon 1200/1500 press-mounted trimmer. I'm not sure where I got sidetracked back there. I took it to mean using these trim dies with the Dillion trimmer motor. Please correct me if I'm wrong. I would like to know too. http://www.ch4d.com/products/dies/trimming/dt Yes those trim dies, I'll buy them over anyone else's, as they have a window/exhaust port that works great for putting a wrench in plus they are made for about any round you can think of Just to clarify Angus, could you trim both 223 and 6.8SPC with the ch4d trim dies and just the one RT1500 trimmer? Thanks |
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Just to clarify Angus, could you trim both 223 and 6.8SPC with the ch4d trim dies and just the one RT1500 trimmer? Thanks Quoted:
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Also Dave as in CH4D I hadn't seen their trimmers before. Is THIS the trimmer you're talking about? When I posted the costs, etc, I thought I was responding to a question about my post on why I went with Giraud versus a Dillon 1200/1500 press-mounted trimmer. I'm not sure where I got sidetracked back there. I took it to mean using these trim dies with the Dillion trimmer motor. Please correct me if I'm wrong. I would like to know too. http://www.ch4d.com/products/dies/trimming/dt Yes those trim dies, I'll buy them over anyone else's, as they have a window/exhaust port that works great for putting a wrench in plus they are made for about any round you can think of Just to clarify Angus, could you trim both 223 and 6.8SPC with the ch4d trim dies and just the one RT1500 trimmer? Thanks Yes, with the 1500 (the 1200 is the one that took a different motor for the 6.8/300blk instead) https://www.dillonprecision.com/content/p/9/catid/8/pid/26196/RT1500_Electric_Case_Trimmer https://www.dillonprecision.com/#/content/p/9/pid/23636/catid/8/Dillon__039_s_Rapid_Trim_1200B_Case_Trimmer_for_7_62_x_39mm_and_6_8_SPC But keep in mind that with the shorter cases like the 300blk, you have to use the short trim head, since the trimmer dies are shorter for the shorter case (distance from the bottom of the trim dies to the exhaust ports, and so the exhaust port is not below the top of the tool head isntead). 
300blk trim die length. 
223 trim die lenght, 
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Skinning cats and all that, flaring the case mouth and then moving it back work the neck twice. More movement = more neck splits. I can get 10+ loads out of LC brass with no annealing just by working the neck as little as possible. Those that claim that the Dillon trimmer leaves no burr, please send me some cases so I can run a dial test indicator across the mouth because after 15 years of cutting metal a wire EDM is one of the only machines I've seen that leaves zero burr. Quoted:
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I have Dillon RT-1500 trimmers and have found a magic solution to the "interference parts" rule that says you must chamfer- I put a slight.... "GASP!!!!!".... flare on rifle case mouths. With each pull of the handle, I decap, swage primer pockets, size/trim, then ....."GASP!!!!"...... flare the case mouth. I then wet clean which removes all traces of carbon and deburrs the case mouth. A second toolhead takes care of powder, bullets, etc. I get less than .002 run out, trim and headspace numbers are similar. Bullets are seated without galling or shaving with the result being MOA or better ammo. All without handling individual pieces of brass. Skinning cats and all that, flaring the case mouth and then moving it back work the neck twice. More movement = more neck splits. I can get 10+ loads out of LC brass with no annealing just by working the neck as little as possible. Those that claim that the Dillon trimmer leaves no burr, please send me some cases so I can run a dial test indicator across the mouth because after 15 years of cutting metal a wire EDM is one of the only machines I've seen that leaves zero burr. The neck of my trim die has been honed to just under the ID of my expanders using Lake City brass which I use almost exlusively. Expanding/flaring afterwards shears any burr off of the inside. I only flare a couple of thousandths so I probably work the neck less than a standard sizing die. The ceramic media I wet-clean with also deburrs. I do not need to take measurements- When I pull bullets there are no gouges, etc. from the case mouth. I use all rifle brass 4 times then put it away for "One Mo' Time" AKA Armageddon. Also, I have RCBS Xdies which I need to experiment with before I run my next batch through- If they work as good as my preliminary tests, I will only trim 1 time. I started to do this a while back and now have the time to devote to it. |
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