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Posted: 7/14/2009 10:31:33 AM EDT
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I've had a few primers fall out of loaded rounds recently. I did a large batch of 223 using 1x WCC cases and Wolf SRM primers. Out of about 400 rounds fired I've come across 3 rounds that the primers came out I believe under recoil. 2 I noticed when the case didn't go bang and the extracted case had no primer, after the mag drop and clear I found the primer on the bench. On one of those I emptied the mag and the last round had it's primer fall out also. I was able to put the primer back in by hand (probably a dumb idea in hindsight). I've since fired several hundred rounds with no problems.
So here's the question, is it likely that these cases were just over stretched by the initial firing or did I over swage them enough to cause the primer pocket to be loose? I didn't really think that was possible. |
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you could have easily over swagged them. I have ruined a case or two by getting a little careless when removing the crimp from once fired Mil. brass. Just one turn too many and a primer will no longer seat nice and snug.
If i have to guess it was not due to firing. In my experience with bottlenecked rifle brass, the shoulder splits long before i have a problem with the primer pocket. |
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Quoted:
you could have easily over swagged them. I have ruined a case or two by getting a little careless when removing the crimp from once fired Mil. brass. Just one turn too many and a primer will no longer seat nice and snug. If i have to guess it was not due to firing. In my experience with bottlenecked rifle brass, the shoulder splits long before i have a problem with the primer pocket. Sir, in my experience reloading .223 USGI brass that I have decrimped with a Dillon Super Swager the primer pocket gets loose long before the case neck or shoulder will split. Admittedly, I reload my cartridges on the "hot" end of the scale but my experience is the opposite of yours. I adjust my swaging tool to remove only enough of the crimp to allow the seating of a new primer but regardless the primer pocket gets loose before the case neck splits. Also after multiple reloadings the brass becomes work hardened and the case neck needs to be annealed but this should have no direct effect on the primer pockets. JMHO, 7zero1. |
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Questions for the OP:
You say the brass was 1X WCC AFAIK, that's not military brass, and as such, was likely NOT crimped, therefore no need to swage In your swaging process, did you remove brass (with a reamer type tool) or move brass (as with an RCBS swager) ? In your priming process, did you use a hand primer, a single stage primer arm, or a station on a progressive press? Thanks in advance for you answers, as it helps us all to learn. |
| Overswaging the pocket most likely. I've had primers fall out from multi fired brass. After I load it, it gets dropped into an ammo can. Typically a loose primer will fall out from the jostling. Sometimes they fall out from the fall into the ammo hopper on the Dillon. |
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After I swage with the RCBS tool I uniform the primer hole using RCBS's case prep machine with the pocket hole uniformer tool. It seems to me that uniforming the holes makes them bright top to bottom, insinuating that metal is scraped off everywhere. I wonder it that's going to bite me down the road with primers falling out.
I added the second step because the RCBS swager seemed to be a bit ifie. Most of the time I could seat new primers oK, but every once in a while a primer would get crushed. The uniformer did away with that problem, and no primers have fallen out yet, but I will pay a lot more attention to primers seated...too easily. |
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Falling out after firing? Pressure. See my post here: http://www.ar15.com/forums/topic.html?b=3&f=118&t=436376&page=3 |
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Would this tool be worth investing in, if it is just loose primers? http://www.mountsplus.com/miva/merchant.mvc?page=MSP/PROD/23_Reloading/PPS-SM1-1PA |
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It sounds to me like you over swaged. Only swage enough to seat a primer.
You should pay attention in the loading process when you prime. If a case needs very little pressure to seat a primer, the primer pocket is loose. Set those cases aside, deprime later and reuse the primers. Recycle the cases. I also load 223 on a 550, and you can feel a loose primer pocket. Good luck |
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Quoted: Would this tool be worth investing in, if it is just loose primers? http://www.mountsplus.com/miva/merchant.mvc?page=MSP/PROD/23_Reloading/PPS-SM1-1PA Only if they are expensive cases. For .223 Rem? Pitch them and lower your loads. You have pressure issues. |
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Quoted:
Falling out after firing? Pressure. See my post here: http://www.ar15.com/forums/topic.html?b=3&f=118&t=436376&page=3 He has primers falling out of unfired rounds while they are still in the magazine. Some of his primer pockets are too big. |
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Quoted:
It sounds to me like you over swaged. Only swage enough to seat a primer. You should pay attention in the loading process when you prime. If a case needs very little pressure to seat a primer, the primer pocket is loose. Set those cases aside, deprime later and reuse the primers. Recycle the cases. I also load 223 on a 550, and you can feel a loose primer pocket. Good luck Sir, while I believe it possible for the various case prep operations to enlarge a primer pocket, IMHO the primary cause of primer pocket enlargement is due to high pressures from the ignition of the powder charge in the case. I reprime all my match brass with a Sinclair hand priming tool as part of the process I use to determine if the primer pocket has become enlarged. I do exactly as you mention when I feel a primer going in to easily. I also use a 550 for reloading match cartridges and agree you can feel a loose primer pocket but I prefer the enhanced feel of using the Sinclair tool. FWIW, to address the notion that WCC brass is somehow inferior: Many of the US military shooters I have competed with use the ammo issued to them which appears to universally be a cartridge loaded in a WCC case with the Sierra 77gr. HPBT bullet. I have accumulated alot of this once fired brass and have begun to reload it. It most definately has crimped primer pockets. I do not know the particular manufacturer of this ammo but can say that the brass appears to be equal quality to other Winchester brass that I have bought commercially. It appears to be good brass just that I haven't been able to take any of it to the range yet. JMHO, 7zero1. |
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Quoted: Quoted: Would this tool be worth investing in, if it is just loose primers? http://www.mountsplus.com/miva/merchant.mvc?page=MSP/PROD/23_Reloading/PPS-SM1-1PA Only if they are expensive cases. For .223 Rem? Pitch them and lower your loads. You have pressure issues. I was referring to the ones he has falling out in the ammo can before he fires them. How could this be the pressure? |
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