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Posted: 8/27/2009 7:21:03 PM EDT
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Thinking about long term storage.... is it OK to take a 1K brick and vacuum seal them?
Met a guy today that told me that is what he did. I was wondering about it. |
| Vacuum sealing is a great idea and what is typically used by the military for long term Level A storage for some items. I keep my primers in a self sealing 7.62mm ammo can. As long as the rubber lid seal is serviceable you should be GTG. Storing them in a cool dry place is the key. Moisture and primers don't mix! Throw a small desiccant bag in for good measure. |
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No. Primers are very resiliant. You really have to work hard to kill a primer. Even if they get wet, they'll dry out and work fine. There's all sorts of accounts of people here and on other sites who have done primer kill tests.
Stored in their original container, they'll last last for decades. |
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Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: I'd vaccuum seal each individual primer to prevent a leaker from ruining a whole batch of primers. Are you being serious?   Sorry, I'm just picturing somebody vacuum sealing 1 primer at a time.  This is serious bidness!! |
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OK then.... vacuum seal seem to be GTG in the general conscensus here.
It seems that I was reading another post here about guys storing in old refridgerators and there was all kind of talk about not having the fridge sealed secondary to primer gas or component fumes or some such thing building up and causing trouble. With that in the back of my mind, I made the OP with the thought that if vacuum sealed... and all that off gasing or whatever was really occuring that might be a bad thing. Doesn't sound like primers need to "breath" to me. |
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Vacuum sealing is a great idea and what is typically used by the military for long term Level A storage for some items. I keep my primers in a self sealing 7.62mm ammo can. As long as the rubber lid seal is serviceable you should be GTG. Storing them in a cool dry place is the key. Moisture and primers don't mix! Throw a small desiccant bag in for good measure. I'd seriously try to talk you out of this idea. Ammo cans are great for ammo, but primers are another story. What you have there is a large pipe bomb (or ammo can bomb) waiting to happen. The can has no built in weak spot that will vent pressure in the event of an "uncontrolled thermal runaway" ie: an explosion. All of the reloading manuals that I've read recommend primer storage in some type of wooden container with a "weak spot". For storage, I'm currently going with 1k primers in a ziploc freezer bag with a small desi. bag. Then the bags go on the top shelf of the cabinet. As to primers being moisture sensative, not as much as you think. Obviously moisture isn't good but it won't permanately kill a primer. Once they dry out, they are GTG. Oil on the other hand will tend to contaminate primers but this is mostly due to the fact that oil does not evaporate nearly as quick. If you want to see something interesting, try an experiment that I did. Prime up some cases, fill one with water, one with WD-40, one with motor oil, and one with dillon case lube. Let em sit for an hour, dump out the liquid and then let them sit in a hot/dry garage for a day. Can you guess how many fired? Yep, all of em. Killing primers is hard to do. standard disclaimers, I'm not a primer expert, not a lawyer, didn't stay in a Holiday Inn Express last night, YMMV, etc. KA |
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Vacuum sealing is a great idea and what is typically used by the military for long term Level A storage for some items. I keep my primers in a self sealing 7.62mm ammo can. As long as the rubber lid seal is serviceable you should be GTG. Storing them in a cool dry place is the key. Moisture and primers don't mix! Throw a small desiccant bag in for good measure. I'd seriously try to talk you out of this idea. Ammo cans are great for ammo, but primers are another story. What you have there is a large pipe bomb (or ammo can bomb) waiting to happen. The can has no built in weak spot that will vent pressure in the event of an "uncontrolled thermal runaway" ie: an explosion. All of the reloading manuals that I've read recommend primer storage in some type of wooden container with a "weak spot". For storage, I'm currently going with 1k primers in a ziploc freezer bag with a small desi. bag. Then the bags go on the top shelf of the cabinet. As to primers being moisture sensative, not as much as you think. Obviously moisture isn't good but it won't permanately kill a primer. Once they dry out, they are GTG. Oil on the other hand will tend to contaminate primers but this is mostly due to the fact that oil does not evaporate nearly as quick. If you want to see something interesting, try an experiment that I did. Prime up some cases, fill one with water, one with WD-40, one with motor oil, and one with dillon case lube. Let em sit for an hour, dump out the liquid and then let them sit in a hot/dry garage for a day. Can you guess how many fired? Yep, all of em. Killing primers is hard to do. standard disclaimers, I'm not a primer expert, not a lawyer, didn't stay in a Holiday Inn Express last night, YMMV, etc. KA This Primers in ammo cans = bad idea. NFPA suggests the proper way to store primer and powder is in a wooden box with loose fitting lid, ie not screwed/nailed down. |
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I'm glad I read this post, I bought a bunch of primmers before the 94 assult weapons ban and they have been sitting in the drawer in the house since, sounds like they should still be fine.
One of these days I may even use them, probably when I retire and have the time to reload. Oh I also have the powder to go with them under the bed. |
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Vacuum sealing is a great idea and what is typically used by the military for long term Level A storage for some items. I keep my primers in a self sealing 7.62mm ammo can. As long as the rubber lid seal is serviceable you should be GTG. Storing them in a cool dry place is the key. Moisture and primers don't mix! Throw a small desiccant bag in for good measure. I'd seriously try to talk you out of this idea. Ammo cans are great for ammo, but primers are another story. What you have there is a large pipe bomb (or ammo can bomb) waiting to happen. The can has no built in weak spot that will vent pressure in the event of an "uncontrolled thermal runaway" ie: an explosion. All of the reloading manuals that I've read recommend primer storage in some type of wooden container with a "weak spot". For storage, I'm currently going with 1k primers in a ziploc freezer bag with a small desi. bag. Then the bags go on the top shelf of the cabinet. As to primers being moisture sensative, not as much as you think. Obviously moisture isn't good but it won't permanately kill a primer. Once they dry out, they are GTG. Oil on the other hand will tend to contaminate primers but this is mostly due to the fact that oil does not evaporate nearly as quick. If you want to see something interesting, try an experiment that I did. Prime up some cases, fill one with water, one with WD-40, one with motor oil, and one with dillon case lube. Let em sit for an hour, dump out the liquid and then let them sit in a hot/dry garage for a day. Can you guess how many fired? Yep, all of em. Killing primers is hard to do. standard disclaimers, I'm not a primer expert, not a lawyer, didn't stay in a Holiday Inn Express last night, YMMV, etc. KA This Primers in ammo cans = bad idea. NFPA suggests the proper way to store primer and powder is in a wooden box with loose fitting lid, ie not screwed/nailed down. Really? Well then explain this to me...what's the difference between an unloaded primer and a loaded primer? Aren't ammo can usually filled with live primers (inside of loaded cartridges)? Also, if you kept the primers in a ammo can, what exactly is going to cause them to explode in the first place? Seriously, if I'm missing something here then please clue me in? |
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For me.........1000 primers is a work in progress.
OK.....that's a wise @$$ remark. Actually, just keep them "cool and dry." That's easy enough to do and remember, w/o getting all "overly concerned." IF you really want to go "overly concerned"............ Storage of Powder and Primers
http://www.beartoothbullets.com/tech_notes/archive_tech_notes.htm/60 Storage of Primers http://www.saami.org/publications/201.pdf Storage of Ammo http://www.alpharubicon.com/leo/longtermammo.htm Note: SAAMI recommends against storing primers in sealed or pressurized containers.
Aloha, Mark PS............Middleton Tompkins once wrote.......... Primers should be stored in airtight containers. Humidity can dramatically change the way a primer functions. I know one shooter who had a bunch of bad primers. When he put them in a can with some desiccant and dried them out and then tried them again they worked real well. When he tried drying them even more, they didn’t work at all. This would indicate that there is a moisture content that is ideal, but I cannot say what the percentage is. Until we have that answer, just try to keep your primer storage as uniform as you can. I think an ammo can is the best place.
YMWV.........I guess. And, I don't know what quantity of primers that he would recommend putting into an ammo can. Ammo cans come in different sizes. Not to mention that, if you stick to the recommended Fire Code numbers........ 11-5.4 No more than 10,000 small arms primers may be stored in residences.
Well, the primers will probably get "rotated" and the can will be opened, often. As for desiccant? Well perhaps, it's not needed at all (if not maybe, overkill). Because, I haven't found a package of it in a newly opened ammo can, foreign or Made in the USA. But, I haven't had a multitude of experience in that department. So anyway, if it's only 10k primers (total).............maybe, the cool dry shelf would be the practical solution? In the end, what you do.........is up to you. |
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Vacuum sealing is a great idea and what is typically used by the military for long term Level A storage for some items. I keep my primers in a self sealing 7.62mm ammo can. As long as the rubber lid seal is serviceable you should be GTG. Storing them in a cool dry place is the key. Moisture and primers don't mix! Throw a small desiccant bag in for good measure. I'd seriously try to talk you out of this idea. Ammo cans are great for ammo, but primers are another story. What you have there is a large pipe bomb (or ammo can bomb) waiting to happen. The can has no built in weak spot that will vent pressure in the event of an "uncontrolled thermal runaway" ie: an explosion. All of the reloading manuals that I've read recommend primer storage in some type of wooden container with a "weak spot". For storage, I'm currently going with 1k primers in a ziploc freezer bag with a small desi. bag. Then the bags go on the top shelf of the cabinet. As to primers being moisture sensative, not as much as you think. Obviously moisture isn't good but it won't permanately kill a primer. Once they dry out, they are GTG. Oil on the other hand will tend to contaminate primers but this is mostly due to the fact that oil does not evaporate nearly as quick. If you want to see something interesting, try an experiment that I did. Prime up some cases, fill one with water, one with WD-40, one with motor oil, and one with dillon case lube. Let em sit for an hour, dump out the liquid and then let them sit in a hot/dry garage for a day. Can you guess how many fired? Yep, all of em. Killing primers is hard to do. standard disclaimers, I'm not a primer expert, not a lawyer, didn't stay in a Holiday Inn Express last night, YMMV, etc. KA This Primers in ammo cans = bad idea. NFPA suggests the proper way to store primer and powder is in a wooden box with loose fitting lid, ie not screwed/nailed down. Really? Well then explain this to me...what's the difference between an unloaded primer and a loaded primer? Aren't ammo can usually filled with live primers (inside of loaded cartridges)? Also, if you kept the primers in a ammo can, what exactly is going to cause them to explode in the first place? Seriously, if I'm missing something here then please clue me in? Tagged for a logical answer to this |
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Quoted:
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Vacuum sealing is a great idea and what is typically used by the military for long term Level A storage for some items. I keep my primers in a self sealing 7.62mm ammo can. As long as the rubber lid seal is serviceable you should be GTG. Storing them in a cool dry place is the key. Moisture and primers don't mix! Throw a small desiccant bag in for good measure. I'd seriously try to talk you out of this idea. Ammo cans are great for ammo, but primers are another story. What you have there is a large pipe bomb (or ammo can bomb) waiting to happen. The can has no built in weak spot that will vent pressure in the event of an "uncontrolled thermal runaway" ie: an explosion. All of the reloading manuals that I've read recommend primer storage in some type of wooden container with a "weak spot". For storage, I'm currently going with 1k primers in a ziploc freezer bag with a small desi. bag. Then the bags go on the top shelf of the cabinet. As to primers being moisture sensative, not as much as you think. Obviously moisture isn't good but it won't permanately kill a primer. Once they dry out, they are GTG. Oil on the other hand will tend to contaminate primers but this is mostly due to the fact that oil does not evaporate nearly as quick. If you want to see something interesting, try an experiment that I did. Prime up some cases, fill one with water, one with WD-40, one with motor oil, and one with dillon case lube. Let em sit for an hour, dump out the liquid and then let them sit in a hot/dry garage for a day. Can you guess how many fired? Yep, all of em. Killing primers is hard to do. standard disclaimers, I'm not a primer expert, not a lawyer, didn't stay in a Holiday Inn Express last night, YMMV, etc. KA This Primers in ammo cans = bad idea. NFPA suggests the proper way to store primer and powder is in a wooden box with loose fitting lid, ie not screwed/nailed down. Really? Well then explain this to me...what's the difference between an unloaded primer and a loaded primer? Aren't ammo can usually filled with live primers (inside of loaded cartridges)? Also, if you kept the primers in a ammo can, what exactly is going to cause them to explode in the first place? Seriously, if I'm missing something here then please clue me in? Tagged for a logical answer to this This comes up all the time. The difference is that if one primer explodes, it can create a chain reaction detonation. In loaded ammo, the spacing between primers, and the presence of the other materials, is sufficient to prevent this chain reaction. In theory the primer packaging is sufficient as well... in theory. The problem with that, is that it's very easy for primers to fall out of the original packaging. I inherited an ammo can full of primers once, and the bottom of the can was full of loose primers from one of the boxes that opened up. multiple primers all in physical contact with each other, in a steel container, all surrounded by thousands of other primers, is dangerous as hell. Who knows if the original packaging for all of the other primers is sufficient to prevent a mass detonation from a concussion wave from 30 primers going at once. As to the OP, I don't advise it. Screwing around with sealing systems, etc is an extra amount of unnecessary handling and is more likely to create problems than to solve a non-existent one. Leave it in the original packaging, toss it on a shelf, and you're fine. I've shot primers decades old, and haven't had a single problem from it. I hope you didn't remove the primers from their original packaging to do this. |
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Quoted: Quoted: Vacuum sealing is a great idea and what is typically used by the military for long term Level A storage for some items. I keep my primers in a self sealing 7.62mm ammo can. As long as the rubber lid seal is serviceable you should be GTG. Storing them in a cool dry place is the key. Moisture and primers don't mix! Throw a small desiccant bag in for good measure. I'd seriously try to talk you out of this idea. Ammo cans are great for ammo, but primers are another story. What you have there is a large pipe bomb (or ammo can bomb) waiting to happen. The can has no built in weak spot that will vent pressure in the event of an "uncontrolled thermal runaway" ie: an explosion. All of the reloading manuals that I've read recommend primer storage in some type of wooden container with a "weak spot". For storage, I'm currently going with 1k primers in a ziploc freezer bag with a small desi. bag. Then the bags go on the top shelf of the cabinet. As to primers being moisture sensative, not as much as you think. Obviously moisture isn't good but it won't permanately kill a primer. Once they dry out, they are GTG. Oil on the other hand will tend to contaminate primers but this is mostly due to the fact that oil does not evaporate nearly as quick. If you want to see something interesting, try an experiment that I did. Prime up some cases, fill one with water, one with WD-40, one with motor oil, and one with dillon case lube. Let em sit for an hour, dump out the liquid and then let them sit in a hot/dry garage for a day. Can you guess how many fired? Yep, all of em. Killing primers is hard to do. standard disclaimers, I'm not a primer expert, not a lawyer, didn't stay in a Holiday Inn Express last night, YMMV, etc. KA I can verify that this is true about the water exposure. Years ago at a previous house I had a detached workshop that I had all of my reloading equipment set up in. After a very heavy, wet snowfall, the roof leaked right over my bench. I had several 100-packs of different sized primers on the bench as well as lots of 1 pound cans of powder on the shelf behind the bench. Everything was soaked. Most of the powders were in metal cans (IMR) or plastic jugs. They were fine. The powders in the cardboard containers clumped up and discolored. Made great fertilizer. The primers got soaked and then dried out and some stuck to the bench top. Some of them looked like the cup had rust on them, but they shot just fine. Back then having 500 primers of each size seemed like hoarding, so I didn't want to get rid of the primers without trying to see if they still worked. I don't recommend using the soaking-wet-storage method, the original packaging and out of the way seems to work fine. Bob |
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I have not done any sealing of primer to date.... just wondering about it.
Like many who have posted I found a missing box of reloading components in my basement from a move we made back in '97. The primers were dated '94 ( I used to write the date of purchase and price paid on everything). They have been cool and dry every since, but were talking 18 years. Just wondering about them. Oh, and they were all CCI brown box, 1K bricks in the original packaging for sure. |
| I have never stored mine in a Wooden container....I keep mine in a medium sized Igloo cooler...I have stored thousands of them for years that way ...it keeps them safe from moisture and in the highly unlikely event that they explode or 'runaway' it will only blow the lid off. YMMV |
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Quoted:
This comes up all the time. The difference is that if one primer explodes, it can create a chain reaction detonation. In loaded ammo, the spacing between primers, and the presence of the other materials, is sufficient to prevent this chain reaction. In theory the primer packaging is sufficient as well... in theory. The problem with that, is that it's very easy for primers to fall out of the original packaging. I inherited an ammo can full of primers once, and the bottom of the can was full of loose primers from one of the boxes that opened up. multiple primers all in physical contact with each other, in a steel container, all surrounded by thousands of other primers, is dangerous as hell. Who knows if the original packaging for all of the other primers is sufficient to prevent a mass detonation from a concussion wave from 30 primers going at once. I can somewhat see the close proximity thing assuming the primers are loose but with today's packaging, I just don't see them all just falling out on their own and puddling together at the bottom of the can? Even assuming for a second that can happen, that still doesn't explain why one of them is just going to suddenly explode and set the rest of them off? Can anyone point me to a documented case of this actually happening? Sorry of I'm being a such doubting Thomas but I've just seen too many case of bad information being passed around so much that it becomes "fact" even through that "fact" has no basis in reality. To me, this kind of sounds like one of those "facts"? |
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This comes up all the time. The difference is that if one primer explodes, it can create a chain reaction detonation. In loaded ammo, the spacing between primers, and the presence of the other materials, is sufficient to prevent this chain reaction. In theory the primer packaging is sufficient as well... in theory. The problem with that, is that it's very easy for primers to fall out of the original packaging. I inherited an ammo can full of primers once, and the bottom of the can was full of loose primers from one of the boxes that opened up. multiple primers all in physical contact with each other, in a steel container, all surrounded by thousands of other primers, is dangerous as hell. Who knows if the original packaging for all of the other primers is sufficient to prevent a mass detonation from a concussion wave from 30 primers going at once. I can somewhat see the close proximity thing assuming the primers are loose but with today's packaging, I just don't see them all just falling out on their own and puddling together at the bottom of the can? Even assuming for a second that can happen, that still doesn't explain why one of them is just going to suddenly explode and set the rest of them off? Can anyone point me to a documented case of this actually happening? Sorry of I'm being a such doubting Thomas but I've just seen too many case of bad information being passed around so much that it becomes "fact" even through that "fact" has no basis in reality. To me, this kind of sounds like one of those "facts"? No examples that I can point to, but consider these scenarios. House fire...the ammo can gets real hot...hot to the point that the primers start cooking off and set off a chain reaction. OTH, primers are also shock sensative. 10 or 15k primers in a 50cal ammo can and the can gets knocked off a high shelf or dropped. I know that it is a long shot...but why take the risk. Also, keep in mind, the DOT considers primers in their original container to be hazmat for the thermal and shock sensativity. Loaded ammo is not hazmat for shipping purposes. ka |
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