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Posted: 6/14/2011 2:42:32 PM EDT
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I know people love the blue kool aid here, and I've got to admit, I would LOVE to own one too. I just can't really do it now, or anytime soon probably lol. What other progressive options are there that aren't quite as expensive that you guys use and like? I've seen Hornady has one, but it's kind of pricey too from what I've seen.
Are there any other options that won't break the bank? |
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Any progressive will be expensive. If you want a full progressive (auto index) most chose between both the Hornady and the Dillon. I chose the Hornady due to the lower start up cost it had. However, if I were to do it again I would go Dillon.
I was an early adopter of the LNL so I have the wire eject. I have been trying to get the upgrade to the new ez-ject but they have had it on backorder or several months now. So they have left me high and dry. Don't know how a main component of their press can be on backorder. I've learned my lesson buy once cry once. However if you want to save money and still have a faster production rate look at turret presses like the Lyman. t-mag 2 |
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If your requirements are 200-300 per hr then join and read/ask questions about the Lee here:
http://forums.loadmastervideos.com/forums/ I have one, it works fine. It won't do 500 per hour, but I don't consume that much that quickly either. For many other tasks I actually prefer my Lee turret. So a turret may also fit your bill (I can do about 100/hr) and be even cheaper. |
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I've been somewhat happy with my Hornady LNL AP.
The 2 problems I've encountered... 1) The eject system pisses me off. If it fails to eject it brings everything to a screeching halt right quick. I have the old system as the poster above has and there is an upgrade available to resolve the issue. New presses should have the upgraded eject so thats a non issue for new purchases. 2) I've had a problem with the priming system. I think this is actually related to PMC primer pockets not being centered in the case head moreso than anything not designed correctly in the press. So while its not at all fair to say the priming system in this press has problems it is a problem I have encountered. I need to get some "good" brass in a "press ready" state to see if the problem really is related to PMC brass or the press itself. Since both of these seem to be either corrected or not related to the press I can say I am happy with the press and do not regret buying it. I just cant see the Dillons doing anything the LNL doesnt, and the LNL does it a bit cheaper. I also really like the Hornady die system. |
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Here is less expensive idea to consider.
First off if you easily frustrated and not into tinkering to get something to work out of the box, STAY AWAY FROM LEE progressive presses! Next, I suggest that you consider a Redding T 7 Turret Press, about 260 bucks. You can leave the case the shell holder and just rotate in squence the sizer decapper, expander, powder measure, seater, and crimper. You can turn out quite a few rounds once you settle in. Drinking the blue kool is probably the best idea, as the false economy of the Hornady shines when a person goes to divest of the equipment, many times you can recoup 80 cents on the dollar, not going happen with the Hornady. The Hornady has lots of quirks and it nickels and dimes you for upgrades. |
Gee, golly, whiz bang. How tempting it is to blow up a few posts in your thread.... 
Simple fact of it is. I'm sick of arguing with folks who don't know their up from their down. ________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________ I've loaded on most every press made and some here call me the resident Lee guru. I own just about every Lee press made. The biggest bang for the buck in progressives is the Pro 1000 by Lee. It's extremely user friendly IF you will prime by hand. Quite a few reloaders, regardless of what brand a press prime by hand. If I wanted to prime in progressive mode I would move to an RCBS progressive or Dillon 550, 650, or 1050. RCBS being the most full proof way of progressive priming. Dillon uses those stupid tubes but has a better mouse trap than Hornady's progressive press. note: this reflects my opinions with zero bias or emotional attachment to brand. Presses are tools. Your choice for press has to match your budget and needs. Also, I'm not familiar with you or your experience level. I would never recommend a progressive to a new reloader, ever. Lee's turret press is by far the most versatile press made and is excellent starter press. MMNV (My Mileage Never Varies) |
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go turret. i have an rcbs that i have had over 10 years. only thing ever broke on it was a decapping pin and that was my fault. they are great on customer service. its much faster than the rock chucker but not as fast as a progressive. u can also get extra turret heads later when u need them. the kool aid is so good though. be resourceful, you can eventually save up. u can always recycle berdan prime brass too hint hint.
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| I would not recommend LEE, yes they are inexpensive but they are that way for a reason. I drank the Blue Stuff from the very start and have not regretted it I have also used the Hornady LNL recently and liked it, you could look at a Rockchucker and piggyback it at a later date but the cost total will be about the same as a progressive from jump start |
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You are going to hear lots of votes for Dillon 550 and 650 presses.
A good friend has the Hornady LNL progressive and is very happy with it. Personally I'm going to go against the grain and get the RCBS Pro 2000 Progressive. I really like the APS primer system. Less chance of a primer popping and taking a bunch more with it (i.e. huge explosion). Plus all my stuff is green, so might as well keep it going. |
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The Hornady LnL is the best/cheapest progressive you can buy, once you subtract the price of the bullets they give you for free (that you would end up buying anyway no matter what press you buy, so it really does reduce overall start up cost) it is by FAR the best deal going.
Many other great options as well though. |
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Quoted:
Gee, golly, whiz bang. How tempting it is to blow up a few posts in your thread....
Simple fact of it is. I'm sick of arguing with folks who don't know their up from their down. ________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________ I've loaded on most every press made and some here call me the resident Lee guru. I own just about every Lee press made. The biggest bang for the buck in progressives is the Pro 1000 by Lee. It's extremely user friendly IF you will prime by hand. Quite a few reloaders, regardless of what brand a press prime by hand. If I wanted to prime in progressive mode I would move to an RCBS progressive or Dillon 550, 650, or 1050. RCBS being the most full proof way of progressive priming. Dillon uses those stupid tubes but has a better mouse trap than Hornady's progressive press. note: this reflects my opinions with zero bias or emotional attachment to brand. Presses are tools. Your choice for press has to match your budget and needs. Also, I'm not familiar with you or your experience level. I would never recommend a progressive to a new reloader, ever. Lee's turret press is by far the most versatile press made and is excellent starter press. MMNV (My Mileage Never Varies) The lee prime system works ok if you modify the primer tray to flow smoothly, I'll see if I can get a pic of the mod I made. You still have to keep an eye on the tray and tap it every now and then but it works fine. The bullet feed and automatic powder drop works great lasts long time. You can't beat the price either. |
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When you consider the cost of the ammunition components you run through it, after a year or two of use the actual cost of the press is a fairly small part of the total cost, regardless of what you ultimately get.
I agree with the sentiment above that a progressive press and a new reloader is a really really bad combination. That is particularly true with largeish pistol case like the .45 ACP using fast powders where a double charge will not spill over the top of the case. The advantage of the single stage press, especially for a new reloader is that you can perform quality assurance checks after each step - for example you can scan the entire loading block of charged cases to ensure that the powder levels are equal in each and every case. With a progessive press you have to be atuned to things on a more subjective level - for example: 1. detecting something is misaligned at the start of each handle pull. 2. noting the powder level in the case as the cartridge moves from the charging to the seating station - each and every time - to ensure it is not grossly over or undercharged. 3. feeling if there is too much or too little belling of the case. 4. feeling when a pimer did not fully seat or failed to feed. Consistency and an understanding of what is happening versus what should happen is important and its hard to go the zero to hero route in that regard without some single stage experience. An auto indexing press also has pros and cons. Theoretically, they won't back up or do things like double charge a case, but its just theory, and when something does malfuction correcting and clearing the problem can be more involved. You also need to decide what you will be loading and in what volume then decide whether you want a progressive that will do almost everything or whether a progresssive that just loads pistol ammo is god enough. –––– Personally, I went with a 550B for a variety of reasons and have never regretted it. |
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I had enough of my Loadmaster in 9mm, finally sold it. Its amazing they can make all that ready to go for about $220 complete with dies and a powder measure. I truely loved how simple and inexpensive some features are, but priming reliability sucked for me, too many tipped mashed primers. Replaced all the relevant parts, adjusted, tweaked. Would work great for a couple hundred rounds, then start giving me fits. I settled on hand priming for a while, but that defeats the purpose of a progressive 1-pass through the press.
Most people hate, but I loved the Lee bullet feeder, its so simple and inexpensive ($23!), and it almost always gave me great reliability. To me the best part is it works backwards, you don't have to bell/funnel the cases much at all to use it since the bullet is raised up INTO the seating die then the brass is raised into the bullet, a HUGE advantage to all other bullet feeders IMO that teter a bullet on a case mouth and then index it to a subsequent station for seating. Upgraded to a Dillon 650 and have absolutely NO regrets. May add a case feeder in the future and maybe a bullet feeder so I can spread the carpal tunnel to both arms equally  and really make use of the presses inherent reliability. I may even try to jerry rig the Lee bullet feeder (perhaps actuated by a pneumatic cylinder off a reed switch), its all plastic but worked pretty darn on the Loadmaster for $23, what the heck I'm still cheap in some ways.
Luckily used presses from most any brand sell for good money, so I didn't do too bad at all selling the Lee (I advertised it with the issues I had regarding the priming system), and learned a whole lot in the process. My suggestion is save your money until you can afford a Dillon progressive, whichever model. Spend more time loading and less making scrap rounds. I also agree with other posters, if you shoot much at all, the price of the press is simply insignificant compared to the components you'll use over the life of the press. My bullet orders average $800 from TJConevera (post office lady driver hates me  ), with powder/primer orders in the hundreds of dollars buying in bulk from Powder Valley when they ran a free hazmat deal.
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I agree with 1911smith in as far as a novice probably shouldn't use a progressive. I'll probably for now just go with a Lee turret press, and as my experience and learning increase, then I'll look into a Dillon. By then maybe I'll have saved up enough money too!!
Thanks as usual for all of the responses! |
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I know my up from down, and I stand by my view that Lee makes progressive presses that are a cluster in motion, and if the user is not patient and handy it will not work period end of discussion. I have been loading since I was 13 years old, and have loaded on all kinds of presses, and I learned from the mistakes of others! Lee Crap! Remember the RCBS Green Machine? What an abortion! and, that is the same opinion that I hold the Lee Progressive presses an abortion!
For many years I was supporter of learning on a single stage press, and for the most part still am. A reloader with varied interests will always have a need for a single stage press. I am hard pressed to recommend that a person load 100 rds of year on a Progressive.....no point.....Heck the 550 conversion pays for darn near 1/3 of a Redding Big Boss. And, if it were a 650 conversion well......then if need magnum accesories for the 650.... The 550 is a good press to learn on as it can be used as a single stage press as it does not auto index. Nuff Said. No one can debate that! It is the king of versatility. Period! The Hornady AP is a decent press, but it sure has some quirks and it will nickel and dime a person to get it ship shape to be compared to a 650. I seen a lot of new reloaders, probably more then any one in this board. Very few are interested in delving deep into reloading. They want to lower their ammo costs, and that is about the sum of their interest. And, they are honest about it.....they are tired of paying 40 bucks for 100 rds of 45ACP plinking ammo. Or get a hicccup when they get ready to go doggin in SD...... So, for some a 550 with dies for 45 acp, a Dillon scale, a primer flip tray, and caliper supplanted by the Lyman 49th is about all they want! Some down the road get hooked. others just churn out plinking ammo and they are having fun! Then again, I have seen some fellow get hooked on F class and well....there went darn near a grand in short order! But, then some jump too deep for their own good and get caught up in trying to deal with too many variables before the learn how to just put some ammo to go test.... The interet is a bad thing, cause some people on boards INSIST theirs is the only way! Especially when detailing rifle ammo..... Heck I started out loading with a Lee Loader, and I could shoot Hornady 150gr SP out of Rem 788 into an inch with no problem at 100 yds! |
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Quoted:
I agree with 1911smith in as far as a novice probably shouldn't use a progressive. I'll probably for now just go with a Lee turret press, and as my experience and learning increase, then I'll look into a Dillon. By then maybe I'll have saved up enough money too!! Thanks as usual for all of the responses! Smart move. Go with the Classic Turret and you'll be very happy. Just make sure to get the riser for the powder measure so it will clear the priming system. I can load around 200 rounds an hour when I get in a good groove. 150 an hour is no sweat loading at a nice easy pace. |
| I can't believe that NO ONE suggested a Dillon BL 550 Basic Loader to this OP. Although it is manual indexing it could certainly be used as single stage to learn on and it will still allow one to load a large volume. At $259 it costs as much as a T7 and the OP is half way to an effective progressive press. |
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I bought my first reloading equipment less than 2 months ago. The only reloading I'd done prior to this was one session being helped by a friend on his turret press. I was starting to shoot quite a bit, so I decided to jump right in to a progressive. I did a bunch of research and then bought a Lee Loadmaster. I looked at the Loadmaster forum and read all the stories and then just decided that I could deal with the Loadmaster because I'm pretty mechanically inclined and not easily frustrated. Turns out to've been a great decision. After a few hours of setting it up and running things to see how they really worked, I was cranking out 9mm and .223 ammo that I'm totally happy with. The primer system takes some getting to know, but once you do, even that'll work well. |
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There can be only one Seriously though, the Square Deal B is a fantastic little press that is pretty affordable if you just want to do pistol calibers. In the world of progressives, I've tried the cheaper stuff, and it just hasn't held a candle to my Dillon equipment. But if you're willing to take your time with it and go non-progressive, a good single stage is a cheap alternative that will really get you understanding all the steps. I usually avoid suggesting progressives to people that are new to reloading, because as others have noted, there's a lot going on each time you pull the handle. |
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I bought the LNL AP, and as mentioned it has some issues. I'm fairly mechanically inclined so I was able to sort my way through them (for the most part). The main problems were: 1. Shell plates. The 45 acp shell plate had openings too small to get the brass in. Solution-dremel. I just opened the mouths enough to let the shells in (not all the way back to where the brass has to be in the correct spot to feed in the dies). 2. Primer shuttle. I actually had several problems here. The first was it would not feed Winchester large pistol primers. They were actually 2-3 thousandths shorter than other primers and would bind up on dropping from the tube into the shuttle. Solution-CCI primers. The other shuttle problem was not traveling back far enough to let the next primer drop. This happened several months in for an unfathomable reason. Solution-I took the plastic arm off the top of the wire that guides the shuttle travel, and lengthened the slot 1/4" or so. Problem solved. 3. The apparently infamous non-ejecting of finished rounds. My press has the new style eject nub and it does not work well. It will eject most .223 rounds, but not most 45 rounds. I cannot figure what to grind or weld on to remedy this. I am thinking it may be the shell plates again, cause the looser the brass fits in the holes, the better they eject. I will prevail eventually though. Most of the time I just pull the round out before it gets to the eject nub.Doesn't exactly sound like a ringing endorsement for Hornady does it? I have loaded several thousand rounds even so, and none of them went kaboom or squib. |
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I have and still use my loadmaster. Going on five years. eventually the priming system just gave out. Also the indexing system got the point where it would just not stay adjusted.
I took off the prining system and set up a FL dillon carbide sizing die, a dillon trimmer, and a modified swagger rod die. I do all my prep on the loadmaster so I dont get shavings and whatnot on the 650. I have to manually index it but it works great. Gives me very consistent trim lengths. Got it set up for 223 and 308. |
| I started out with the Lee turret press loading .40 S&W and .223. After about 6 months or so I bought a Lee Pro 1000 for .40 S&W and then a few months later a Lee Load Master from a friend set up for .45ACP. They all were pretty good presses for the money, the load master is a heavier press like the Hornady L N L and Dillion and is a 5 station press, the pro 1000 is only a 3 station press. The turret press is a 4 station, but you can only load 1 round at a time, it's a decent press for someone starting out and learning how to reload. I purchased a L N L about 7 or 8 months ago and have ran probably 5 thousand rounds through it and Iove it. I don't think you can go wrong with the Lee presses if you expect to get what you pay for, they are less expensive than the L N L or Dillions but again, they are pretty decent for the money, the biggest thing I didn't like about them was the auto primer, it sucks big time, if you get any powder in it, it will not let the primers slide down the chute. I always deprimed what ever I was loading and then used a hand primer to prime and then run them through the press. Hope this helps you. |
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