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Posted: 4/1/2016 1:22:53 AM EDT
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I'd like to start reloading for 38/357 for my blackhawk revolver (I have equipment and experience loading for rifle but not pistol) and after a bunch of reading I'm still confused by a few things.
First, lead bullets seem to be popular - especially for 38 loads. I can understand the cost benefit, but I'm just not interested in lead bullets. They are dirty to handle and load and seem to require more care to keep leading down. Aside from cost, is there any reason NOT to use jacketed bullets? Barrel wear? Assuming there is no real issue with jacketed bullets, to keep things simple I'd like to just use one type of bullet and I'm looking at the 158 gr Hornady xtp hp bullets. I can load these light in 38 cases for target/plinking (granted a bit more expensive than lead) and hotter in 357 cases for more bang. They seem to be good, reliable and accurate bullets. Is there any reason to not do this? I'm not really interested in or worried about defensive rounds. 99.99% target and plinking. Some plastic water bottles were talking smack so they'll have to be dealt with. Magnum loads, powder and primers... From what I've read and people I've talked to, most 38 and 357 loads and powders don't need magnum primers and using them (so I've been told) can cause more variability, pressure spikes, and less accuracy. 296/H110 powder seems the possible exception. Looks like this is THE powder to use for hot magnum loads. Based on the Hodgdon site, highest velocity of any powder for a given load. H4227 and Lil'gun are close. With these "magnum" powders, how necessary is the magnum primer? What happens if you use a normal SP primer? Will the magnum primers cause pressure spikes or inconsistent loads/accuracy? Is any one of these "better" for hot magnum loads? Better for me would be consistent, accurate, clean(er), quieter, less muzzle flash, better recoil. Thanks in advance for any insights. |
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Quoted: I'd like to start reloading for 38/357 for my blackhawk revolver (I have equipment and experience loading for rifle but not pistol) and after a bunch of reading I'm still confused by a few things. First, lead bullets seem to be popular - especially for 38 loads. I can understand the cost benefit, but I'm just not interested in lead bullets. They are dirty to handle and load and seem to require more care to keep leading down. Aside from cost, is there any reason NOT to use jacketed bullets? Barrel wear? New reloaders are always scared of lead bullets. Why we now powder coat the cast bullets we make. You can use all jacketed, but your wasting you money using them with light loads. You can't afford enough jacketed bullets to wear out your barrel. Assuming there is no real issue with jacketed bullets, to keep things simple I'd like to just use one type of bullet and I'm looking at the 158 gr Hornady xtp hp bullets. I can load these light in 38 cases for target/plinking (granted a bit more expensive than lead) and hotter in 357 cases for more bang. They seem to be good, reliable and accurate bullets. Is there any reason to not do this? I'm not really interested in or worried about defensive rounds. 99.99% target and plinking. Some plastic water bottles were talking smack so they'll have to be dealt with. Magnum loads, powder and primers... From what I've read and people I've talked to, most 38 and 357 loads and powders don't need magnum primers and using them (so I've been told) can cause more variability, pressure spikes, and less accuracy. 296/H110 powder seems the possible exception. Looks like this is THE powder to use for hot magnum loads. Based on the Hodgdon site, highest velocity of any powder for a given load. H4227 and Lil'gun are close. With these "magnum" powders, how necessary is the magnum primer? What happens if you use a normal SP primer? Will the magnum primers cause pressure spikes or inconsistent loads/accuracy? Is any one of these "better" for hot magnum loads? Better for me would be consistent, accurate, clean(er), quieter, less muzzle flash, better recoil. Easy answer, use the primer type called out in your load data. Which is magnum primers with H 110 and a firm crimp. Thanks in advance for any insights. |
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Thanks for the info and link. The Hodgdon website isn't entirely clear and simply lists magnum primers across the top as if it should be used with all powders. Maybe it can be but is that ideal? I do see most, but not all, people claiming SPM primers with H110.
Are plated bullets a good compromise between cost and being cleaner? Could go with those in lighter plinking loads. I do see some comments about them being less consistently made (weight variation) and less accurate. |
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I have noticed that some manuals do not state when to use a magnum or standard primer primer in the .357 and just list magnum for all loads.
There is no problem using the SPM for all your loads but they are not really necessary when shooting light charges of "fast" powder. There is no reason to take mine or anyone's else word for this. If you look in enough legitimate published data sources you will find it. One thing about plated bullets to watch for is that some do not have crimp groves. This is not a bad thing but if you are new to pistol loading I suggest that you seat in one operation and crimp in another if using a plated bullet that does not have a crimp grove. Applying a roll crimp with a non grooved plated bullet and seating at the same time is a tricky set-up. Even in two separate steps you want to keep the crimp light on non groove bullets. Motor |
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Thanks for the feedback. Maybe I'll give the plated bullets a try.
EDIT: as for the X-treme bullets or other plated ones, any particular weight/style that is better? I've been thinking of sticking with 158gr round or flat nose but do HP or SWC offer any benefits in a target bullet? |
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357s are not very picky. At least none I ever had was or is.
I've shot 110s up to 180s (I think) and they all shoot good. As far as HPs vs SWC goes there is no way of saying. You have to find out for yourself what your pistol like best. There is surely nothing wrong with shooting 158s. They can even be pleasant to shoot using a nice mild target load. Motor |
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I am using 158 FP coated bullets that I cast. You can buy coated bullets all over the place. The reason I mention it... I am shooting coated bullets in my 357 to magnum velocities with 300 MP powder. They are not gas checked. They run fantastic. No leading. No issues. I am sure they would run in Special just fine too.
So, why bother with plated if you can get one bullet to run in both loads? I suspect the manufactured coated bullets are just as good as mine (better?). Plated can't run at magnum velocities. |
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Quoted:
Thanks for the feedback. Maybe I'll give the plated bullets a try. EDIT: as for the X-treme bullets or other plated ones, any particular weight/style that is better? I've been thinking of sticking with 158gr round or flat nose but do HP or SWC offer any benefits in a target bullet? Buy some of each weight and design. Load , shoot see which gives you the best results. buy bulk of said bullet and enjoy. You're looking for plinking loads, no need to drop $$ on the XTP's. I run extreme 158 plated for my suppressed lever action. 158 & 125 LSWC in the revolvers. I don't have any issues or problems running lead from almost every vendor out there. IM or em me. i'd be happy to give you some extreme plated, and other vendors bullets to experiment with. I'm along the northern front range. |
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Quoted:
I am using 158 FP coated bullets that I cast. You can buy coated bullets all over the place. The reason I mention it... I am shooting coated bullets in my 357 to magnum velocities with 300 MP powder. They are not gas checked. They run fantastic. No leading. No issues. I am sure they would run in Special just fine too. So, why bother with plated if you can get one bullet to run in both loads? I suspect the manufactured coated bullets are just as good as mine (better?). Plated can't run at magnum velocities. Just googled about coated bullets. Interesting. Would never have thought a plastic coated bullet wouldn't melt. Sites mentioned a lot less smoke. I'm assuming smoke from lead rounds is the lube burning off. Any smoke from powder should be the same regardless of bullet or am I missing something? I picked up some Perfecta 357s (FMJ) at Walmat - cheap but shoot like 38s, not overly accurate and the smokiest smokeless powder I've ever seen. |
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I never used magnum primers when I was loading/shooting lots of .38 special and .357 magnum ammo (two S&Ws and two Rugers that used to eat a lot).
I really liked H110 and Blue Dot for .357 magnum loads and Unique or Bullseye for .38 special. The coated lead would be fine for either cartridge. Coated wasn't available 30/35 years ago but lead worked just fine in .38 special target/plinking loads. The crimp thing - you've got to crimp the necks enough to hold the bullet. Probably won't be much of an issue with the .38 special, but the .357 magnum can generate enough recoil that the remaining bullets in the cylinder will "grow" as recoil smacks the revolver to the rear with each shot. Once the bullet is far enough out of a case it can hang on the frame/barrel as the cylinder rotates. Don't over crimp, it can damage the bullet and hurt accuracy. |
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Quoted:
Just googled about coated bullets. Interesting. Would never have thought a plastic coated bullet wouldn't melt. Sites mentioned a lot less smoke. I'm assuming smoke from lead rounds is the lube burning off. Any smoke from powder should be the same regardless of bullet or am I missing something? I picked up some Perfecta 357s (FMJ) at Walmat - cheap but shoot like 38s, not overly accurate and the smokiest smokeless powder I've ever seen. Quoted:
Quoted:
I am using 158 FP coated bullets that I cast. You can buy coated bullets all over the place. The reason I mention it... I am shooting coated bullets in my 357 to magnum velocities with 300 MP powder. They are not gas checked. They run fantastic. No leading. No issues. I am sure they would run in Special just fine too. So, why bother with plated if you can get one bullet to run in both loads? I suspect the manufactured coated bullets are just as good as mine (better?). Plated can't run at magnum velocities. Just googled about coated bullets. Interesting. Would never have thought a plastic coated bullet wouldn't melt. Sites mentioned a lot less smoke. I'm assuming smoke from lead rounds is the lube burning off. Any smoke from powder should be the same regardless of bullet or am I missing something? I picked up some Perfecta 357s (FMJ) at Walmat - cheap but shoot like 38s, not overly accurate and the smokiest smokeless powder I've ever seen. Yes, lube smokes. Some people dont like. Depends on use. I shoot Black Powder too so I dont mind a little smoke. Lots of threads on coating your own here. Obviously that adds quite a bit to your reloading time and cost. Casting is a whole new hobby in itself. If no time, just buy. I personally dont like plated. Not as accurate as my coated rnds. |
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Quoted:
First, lead bullets seem to be popular - especially for 38 loads. I can understand the cost benefit, but I'm just not interested in lead bullets. They are dirty to handle and load and seem to require more care to keep leading down. Aside from cost, is there any reason NOT to use jacketed bullets? Barrel wear? I used to shoot .357 148 gr. Pb WC, but do only jacketed bullets anymore -- precisely for the health/dirt reasons, and now because the range I frequent does not allow Pb bullets (jacketed, plated, semi-jacketed ok). No reason to not use jacketed. Quoted:Assuming there is no real issue with jacketed bullets, to keep things simple I'd like to just use one type of bullet and I'm looking at the 158 gr Hornady xtp hp bullets. I can load these light in 38 cases for target/plinking (granted a bit more expensive than lead) and hotter in 357 cases for more bang. They seem to be good, reliable and accurate bullets. Is there any reason to not do this? I'm not really interested in or worried about defensive rounds. 99.99% target and plinking. Some plastic water bottles were talking smack so they'll have to be dealt with. If you are practice/plinking, there's no reason to use more costly JHPs in a Blackhawk revolver -- any lower-cost jacketed bullet (RN, SWC, etc.) will work. Quoted:Magnum loads, powder and primers... From what I've read and people I've talked to, most 38 and 357 loads and powders don't need magnum primers and using them (so I've been told) can cause more variability, pressure spikes, and less accuracy. 296/H110 powder seems the possible exception. Looks like this is THE powder to use for hot magnum loads. Based on the Hodgdon site, highest velocity of any powder for a given load. H4227 and Lil'gun are close. With these "magnum" powders, how necessary is the magnum primer? What happens if you use a normal SP primer? Will the magnum primers cause pressure spikes or inconsistent loads/accuracy? Is any one of these "better" for hot magnum loads? Better for me would be consistent, accurate, clean(er), quieter, less muzzle flash, better recoil. I look at it this way -- as I understand it, magnum primers are used where their "hotter" ignition performance ensures certain powders will reliably and fully burn, and do so with the expected pressure profile. So for lighter loads (where the pressure curve is not a concern) I use standard primers, and I've yet to encounter to a lighter load that a standard primer didn't light off (I've mostly used Bullseye in lighter target loads). For full power loads with a powder like 2400 or Blue Dot, I use magnum primers where recommended. ETA: I have *very* little experience with plated bullets, so I can't comment on them -- I've just purchased my first batch of Everglades Ammunition plated 9 MM. That said, the first 30 ran through my HKs no problem. |
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Quoted:
If you are practice/plinking, there's no reason to use more costly JHPs in a Blackhawk revolver -- any lower-cost jacketed bullet (RN, SWC, etc.) will work. Quoted:
Quoted:Assuming there is no real issue with jacketed bullets, to keep things simple I'd like to just use one type of bullet and I'm looking at the 158 gr Hornady xtp hp bullets. I can load these light in 38 cases for target/plinking (granted a bit more expensive than lead) and hotter in 357 cases for more bang. They seem to be good, reliable and accurate bullets. Is there any reason to not do this? I'm not really interested in or worried about defensive rounds. 99.99% target and plinking. Some plastic water bottles were talking smack so they'll have to be dealt with. If you are practice/plinking, there's no reason to use more costly JHPs in a Blackhawk revolver -- any lower-cost jacketed bullet (RN, SWC, etc.) will work. Thanks for the info. Regarding using JHPs, those actually are the cheapest jacketed bullet I can find. For example, at Midway they have the Hornady xtp for 16-18 cents per bullet. They have some winchester and remington LRN and HP but those too are essentially the same price (for similar weight). My reason for thinking XTP is they are about the cheapest jacketed bullets, seem to be high quality and accurate and obviously serve multiple functions. Loading the same bullets in all loads would allow me to keep that variable constant and only powder type and charge would change. This would make it easier to find the most accurate loads - at least for a given bullet. If I had a need for 125 gr or something else then I would have to start over. While I see the benefit of a plated/coated bullet, They might not perform the same as a jacketed one so any given powder/charge wouldn't necessarily translate. I know lead loads at least are not the same as for jacketed. Not sure about plated. |
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I went from plated to coated bullets and like the coated a lot more. They typically have a crimp groove which is really nice. The only 357s I have loaded are light target rounds, which is essentially the same as loading 38s. Fast powders like Bullseye and TiteGroup work really well with 38 special. As for bullets I'm shooting both 138 BNWCs and 158 SWCs from Bayou Bullets. |
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XTP's are great bullets, but many cheaper options out there. Zero bullets to name just one brand, accurate and less expensive. Go up to the "where to find" thread and ask there if you want specific venders. Don't get your thread locked by asking in this thread. Or you would be surprised what you can find with a Google search. Good luck |
| I can find lots of options online. It's making a choice that's the hard part. I'm still kind of tempted to get some good jacketed bullets and work a bit on just understanding how the gun shoots with what should be a fairly consistent round. That would give me a baseline to compare with and could then use some of the cheaper options and see what comes closest for the money. Anyway, thanks for all the feedback and good info to work with. |
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Quoted:
I can find lots of options online. It's making a choice that's the hard part. I'm still kind of tempted to get some good jacketed bullets and work a bit on just understanding how the gun shoots with what should be a fairly consistent round. That would give me a baseline to compare with and could then use some of the cheaper options and see what comes closest for the money. Anyway, thanks for all the feedback and good info to work with. That is a good plan. |
| One follow up question. I know we talked a lot about plated and coated bullets and I do intend to give these a try, but I'm thinking of doing some FMJ (or HP) first to develop a baseline. I was thinking the Hornady xtp but after a bit more searching I also found Nosler 158 Grain Jacketed Hollow Point for a similar price. Any thoughts on how these compare to the xtp? The main difference I can see is the exposed lead nose vs the more jacketed nose of the xtp. Not sure what the benefits/drawbacks might be. Thanks. |
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Quoted:
One follow up question. I know we talked a lot about plated and coated bullets and I do intend to give these a try, but I'm thinking of doing some FMJ (or HP) first to develop a baseline. I was thinking the Hornady xtp but after a bit more searching I also found Nosler 158 Grain Jacketed Hollow Point for a similar price. Any thoughts on how these compare to the xtp? The main difference I can see is the exposed lead nose vs the more jacketed nose of the xtp. Not sure what the benefits/drawbacks might be. Thanks. I found no difference in accuracy between Hornady and Nosler 158's. I dont know about expansion differences but either will do the job. I kept using nosler because they were far cheaper (buy in 250cnt box from SPS or Midway - when on sale or clearance). Stopped using when I started casting/coating but I still got a bunch loaded I am working through... |
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Quoted: One follow up question. I know we talked a lot about plated and coated bullets and I do intend to give these a try, but I'm thinking of doing some FMJ (or HP) first to develop a baseline. I was thinking the Hornady xtp but after a bit more searching I also found Nosler 158 Grain Jacketed Hollow Point for a similar price. Any thoughts on how these compare to the xtp? The main difference I can see is the exposed lead nose vs the more jacketed nose of the xtp. Not sure what the benefits/drawbacks might be. Thanks. |
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FWIW- I've been switching to Magnum primers for ALL my pistol loads, all calibers.
I'm getting much cleaner powder burns, improved velocities, and improved accuracies with a couple exceptions. Ramshot Silhouette in 45ACP with XTP bullets does not like LP Magnum primers but is impressive in SP magnum. Winchester WSF in 45ACP loves SP Magnum primers with 230gr Cast and mid charge. 357 Magnum- use magnums for all powder/bullet combos. Had very bad experience using midlevel charges of AA9 and standard SP CCI primers. Switch to CCI 550 Magnum and problems gone. My personal rule of thumb: if it has "Magnum" in the cartridge name, it gets a magnum primer regardless of what some internet reloader with 30 years experience might say. Nearly blowing up a GP100 by listening to one of these guys convinced me to take all advice for what is cost me. |
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