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Posted: 6/18/2014 7:24:33 PM EDT
| Hello I am new here but have been reloading for a few years now. I reload for my colt 6920 and i use a wilson case gauge to spec my cases when sizing. i size them so they are just below flush with the top cut. well a friend of mine who has a bcm midi hammer forged type, he does not use a case gauge to size he uses his chamber. well out of curiosity i had him stop by a little while ago with some of his sized shells and i threw them in the wilson case gauge to see about where the case head ends up while in the chamber and his shells stick up 7 thousandths higher than the max cut. when i drop a once fired brass that has not been sized yet in the chamber gauge, the case head sticks up just high as his "sized" cases. does this sound dangerous or what? |
| Doesn't sound dangerous if they chamber in his rifle. That's why I prefer a gauge that will measure and give a dimension from fired cases and to measure the shoulders after they are sized to insure the shoulder is pushed back a measured amount from the fired case dimension. I use both the RCBS Precision Mic which I prefer for .223 and also have and it works well is the Hornady Headspace Gauge Set which works with your calipers and will measure headspace on most all rifle calibers. To me the rifle chamber would be just as accurate as a drop in gauge?? Don't know that though. |
| Ok well my chamber is 5.56 and i have been sizing my cases to 223 spec. i would like to start sizing for 556 spec but i would like a gauge or some way to measure it rather than just dropping it in my barrel. as of now i am sizing to match the factory xm193 case ( i drop a factory xm193 case in my chamber gauge then size all my brass to match that.) |
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There is no .223 gauge and 5.56 NATO gauge.
.223 and 5.56 brass are identical. The gauge checks whether the shoulders are back to SAAMI spec. It will also check if the brass walls are within spec. If your friends reloads are chambering in his rifle, then he might have a looser chamber. The gauge only checks to be sure the ammo will fit in ALL .223 SAAMI spec chambers. Your friends reloads might not fit in your Colt, because your chamber may be different. |
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Quoted:
Ok well my chamber is 5.56 and i have been sizing my cases to 223 spec. i would like to start sizing for 556 spec but i would like a gauge or some way to measure it rather than just dropping it in my barrel. as of now i am sizing to match the factory xm193 case ( i drop a factory xm193 case in my chamber gauge then size all my brass to match that.) No you wouldn't. The length you're concerned with is between the shoulder and the case head. Either continue to use the Wilson gage or get one that attaches to calipers. The Wilson gage sets headspace at 0.008 inches. Your buddy is setting his with just enough room to function, but he doesn't know the measurement. I use the Stoney Point gages to set my headspace at 0.002 inches, and I have never had a function problem. |
| Can I size my brass like my friend does. He says he screws down his sizing die to shell holder and sizes a case then checks it in his chamber. if it doesnt extract then he goes a little more until it just extracts smoothly. my concern is the variation in brass (even of the same lot) so if sizing this way isnt it more likely to not bump the shoulder back far enough to cause a headspace issue? Its weird, my once fired brass still will fit in my chamber and extract easily its just a little bit tight. |
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Not recommended with an AR. The cases must be sized just a little shorter than where the bolt will close, about 0.002 inches is the minimum.
Like I said above, your friend is getting cases sized to function, but he doesn't know how much clearance he has at the shoulder. I'll bet he has had some failures to chamber and eject, too. |
| Ya I have been reloading for a while and never used his method of sizing, I have always used the wilson gauge and I have never had one problem at all no failures of any kind. If someone is familiar with the wilson gauge I am using I have a question, I have thrown away a few rounds while checking them in the gauge because they were flush with the top cut (instructions say ideal headspace is between the bottome and the top cut). I am probably ok to keep these rounds from now on after seeing my friends shells eject in my chamber and his were around .007 about the top cut. |
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I've been hand loading since the mid 1980s. I have a degree in tool and die making and have been a machinist and or quality inspector for all of my working life. I see more confusion and misunderstanding on here about various gages then most any other topic. For good reason I might add.
Yes you have never had a failure using your Wilson gage. That is because it is made to fit any "in spec" chamber as someone already stated. I can't believe you threw away ammo as you described. Didn't you even try to chamber them? As Aero E stated a full length sizing (to max) will give about .008" I don't see anything wrong with .008" for a normal every day use semi auto rifle. I full length all my AR ammo and get very good accuracy and good case life. Trying to get too "fancy" with a self loader like a AR will only get you into problems. If guys would simply set up their dies as per the manufactures instruction there would be a lot less confusion. |
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Quoted: Ya I have been reloading for a while and never used his method of sizing, I have always used the wilson gauge and I have never had one problem at all no failures of any kind. If someone is familiar with the wilson gauge I am using I have a question, I have thrown away a few rounds while checking them in the gauge because they were flush with the top cut (instructions say ideal headspace is between the bottome and the top cut). I am probably ok to keep these rounds from now on after seeing my friends shells eject in my chamber and his were around .007 about the top cut.  Dillon gauge here. If case is above end of gauge it need to be sized more. You want the case to be like in the pic, between the end of gauge and the cut. Different headstamps size differently (springback) so you may need a slight adjustment to your sizing die for different brands of cases. I use a Hornady headspace gauge now and set shoulder back .003. When I measured the cases I had sized when setting sizing die with the Dillon gauge, I was setting shoulder back .004. I would continue to use your gauge OP, your buddy's method is poor. http://www.midwayusa.com/product/479704/hornady-lock-n-load-headspace-gage-5-bushing-set-with-comparator link for those who may be interested in this tool.
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Quoted:
<a href="http://s250.photobucket.com/user/dryflash3/media/Case%20Gauge/PB290317.jpg.html" target="_blank">http://i250.photobucket.com/albums/gg272/dryflash3/Case%20Gauge/PB290317.jpg</a> Dillon gauge here. If case is above end of gauge it need to be sized more. You want the case to be like in the pic, between the end of gauge and the cut. Different headstamps size differently (springback) so you may need a slight adjustment to your sizing die for different brands of cases. <a href="http://s250.photobucket.com/user/dryflash3/media/Case%20Gauge/P2100506_zps4ab43b86.jpg.html" target="_blank">http://i250.photobucket.com/albums/gg272/dryflash3/Case%20Gauge/P2100506_zps4ab43b86.jpg</a> I use a Hornady headspace gauge now and set shoulder back .003. When I measured the cases I had sized when setting sizing die with the Dillon gauge, I was setting shoulder back .004. I would continue to use your gauge OP, your buddy's method is poor. http://www.midwayusa.com/product/479704/hornady-lock-n-load-headspace-gage-5-bushing-set-with-comparator link for those who may be interested in this tool. Quoted:
Quoted:
Ya I have been reloading for a while and never used his method of sizing, I have always used the wilson gauge and I have never had one problem at all no failures of any kind. If someone is familiar with the wilson gauge I am using I have a question, I have thrown away a few rounds while checking them in the gauge because they were flush with the top cut (instructions say ideal headspace is between the bottome and the top cut). I am probably ok to keep these rounds from now on after seeing my friends shells eject in my chamber and his were around .007 about the top cut. Dillon gauge here. If case is above end of gauge it need to be sized more. You want the case to be like in the pic, between the end of gauge and the cut. Different headstamps size differently (springback) so you may need a slight adjustment to your sizing die for different brands of cases. <a href="http://s250.photobucket.com/user/dryflash3/media/Case%20Gauge/P2100506_zps4ab43b86.jpg.html" target="_blank">http://i250.photobucket.com/albums/gg272/dryflash3/Case%20Gauge/P2100506_zps4ab43b86.jpg</a> I use a Hornady headspace gauge now and set shoulder back .003. When I measured the cases I had sized when setting sizing die with the Dillon gauge, I was setting shoulder back .004. I would continue to use your gauge OP, your buddy's method is poor. http://www.midwayusa.com/product/479704/hornady-lock-n-load-headspace-gage-5-bushing-set-with-comparator link for those who may be interested in this tool. Same price w/free 2day shipping on Amazon prime http://www.amazon.com/Hornady-Lock-Load-Headspace-Gauge/dp/B000PD5VN8/ref=sr_1_1?s=sporting-goods&ie=UTF8&qid=1403467109&sr=1-1&keywords=Hornady+Headspace+Gauge |
| Ya its funny today me and my buddy went to the range and he had many failures to feed. I am supprised he had no kabooms because dropping a loaded round into the chamber, it would only fall about half way in the chamber freely then you had to use some force to get the shell all the way in but he insists on using that method. |
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