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Posted: 7/4/2012 6:49:32 AM EDT
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So for my last few bullet buys I have only been buying JSP have not had the chance to reload any yet but I have found 55gr bullets are to light and are key hole at 100 yards with factory 55gr Fed JSP so I know now I need something heavier. After seeing with my own eyes what a JSP does to a water jug next to a FMJ it made me rethink what I wanted to reload yes the FMJ are good for range but I'm also reloading for other things.
Now I have not done the HP on the water jugs or any of the other type of bullets and in saving me money and time I'd like to know has anyone else tried other bullets other then FMJ and JSP on water jugs? I'm wanting to start buying in bulk one type of bullet that would be a better all around bullet then a FMJ. Really after seeing how much energy a JSP dumps into a 1gal water jug and to see the FMJ not even move the jug to be I want all the energy for that round in my target! Thanks for the help. |
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The best bulk SP is probably going to be the Hornady 55gr. Now, there are other options to consider like Ballistic Tips can be had in 1000 count boxes, or better yet check the Nosler Pro Shop for Nosler Seconds, just cosmetic flaws not the crap you get from other vendors with their seconds.
The best 55gr FMJ for reloading is the Hornady or if you can find them the IMI. The rest a pretty much crap. The Hornady 55gr SP is going to be at best a MOA on average, and with the BT you cna shrink down to 3/4 MOA or a tad better. Another good value is the Hornady Z-Max bullets aka V-Max in their 500 count boxes, which is larger then Hornady normally sells V-Max in 250 packs in most 22 cal offerings except 60gr. I would look hard at the 55gr Ballistic Tip, and if you can not get seconds then buy them in the 1000 count boxes for max value. |
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Quoted: So for my last few bullet buys I have only been buying JSP have not had the chance to reload any yet but I have found 55gr bullets are to light and are key hole at 100 yards with factory 55gr Fed JSP so I know now I need something heavier. After seeing with my own eyes what a JSP does to a water jug next to a FMJ it made me rethink what I wanted to reload yes the FMJ are good for range but I'm also reloading for other things. Now I have not done the HP on the water jugs or any of the other type of bullets and in saving me money and time I'd like to know has anyone else tried other bullets other then FMJ and JSP on water jugs? I'm wanting to start buying in bulk one type of bullet that would be a better all around bullet then a FMJ. Really after seeing how much energy a JSP dumps into a 1gal water jug and to see the FMJ not even move the jug to be I want all the energy for that round in my target! Thanks for the help. If the 55gr bullets are key holing, then what is your twist? I agree with rn22723 in that the Hornady 55gr FMJ-BT bullets are very good quality. The Remington and Winchester ones are crap for consistency. Shooting water filled jugs, if done with an eye towards doing rudimentary testing, as a sort of quick and dirty Fackler Box, is fine. If you are just shooting to blow stuff up, that is fun, but I would not take anything more from this than that. |
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The best bulk SP is probably going to be the Hornady 55gr. Now, there are other options to consider like Ballistic Tips can be had in 1000 count boxes, or better yet check the Nosler Pro Shop for Nosler Seconds, just cosmetic flaws not the crap you get from other vendors with their seconds. The best 55gr FMJ for reloading is the Hornady or if you can find them the IMI. The rest a pretty much crap. The Hornady 55gr SP is going to be at best a MOA on average, and with the BT you cna shrink down to 3/4 MOA or a tad better. Another good value is the Hornady Z-Max bullets aka V-Max in their 500 count boxes, which is larger then Hornady normally sells V-Max in 250 packs in most 22 cal offerings except 60gr. I would look hard at the 55gr Ballistic Tip, and if you can not get seconds then buy them in the 1000 count boxes for max value. I think he's saying he needs something heavier than 55grns. If you are just plinking I would say pulled ss109 bullets will work just fine . Nosler and hornady both make great bullets in the 60-77 grain weight for more accurate work or SHTF |
You don't say what rifle and what twist you have but remember this, a boat tail bullet is far easer to make tumble than you might think. If you have the slightest imperfection at the muzzle this can destabilize the bullet and cause it to yaw. The same applies if the bullet has imperfections which can also make it yaw or if the bullet is off center as it enters the bore. (bullet run-out)
223 Rem + 223 AI Cartridge Guide (with recommended twist rates) http://www.accurateshooter.com/cartridge-guides/223rem/ |
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If you're getting key-holing with 55-grain I'd take a good look at your crown/muzzle. 55-grain should be stable in twists as slow as 1/12 under most conditions. It is a new RRA rifle. Everyone in are department is having the same problem with the 55gr. Not sure why? My personal weapon is the same yet I have not tested the ammo on my personal weapon at that range yet. |
| If you are keyholing at 100 yds, then something is bad wrong. First thing to check is the flash suppressor or muzzle brake to make sure the bullet is not hitting that when exiting. If you are using a suppressor, make sure it is indexed properly, is on straight, and is not bent. Check the baffles for brass or copper colored streaks and impact damage. Next check the muzzle crown for a bad burr. Also check to make sure you have rifling all the way to the muzzle and that the lands and grooves are uniform. Try a different load. If all that does not work, then get with your armorer or get on the phone to RRA. |
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Anyway I'm looking for something more then 55gr for a round to reload. Water jugs are just water jugs but 60% of the human body is water around about so what is done to a water jug is a lot like what is done to a human. Yes bone and other needed to be added into what would be a good round! But if you think a JSP 55gr blows up a water jug when a FMJ 55gr just goes through it my thought is to spend the money on the JSP or other rounds that uses the energy on the target that is hit!
Also I'm wanting to place as much weight into the target as I can don't care what people say I have seen what a 5.56 in 55gr does to a human then I have seen what a 7.62x51 150gr does I have seen what a 115gr, 124gr, 147gr 9mm FMJ and JHP also 40 S&W 165gr and 180gr JHP and a 230gr 45ACP does to a human and I would take that 230gr FMJ 45ACP over all of them! Not trying to get in a fight about 9mm vs 45acp please!! 9mm is a great round for some people and my wife is going to carry it because that is what she can shoot best! Back to 223. I like heavier rounds because more damage as I tell everyone take three fingers and punch someone as fast as you can there you have a 55gr 223 then take your full fist and hit someone with 4% less force and see how it feels! |
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Funny part is that about 4 other guys in are department have the same problem You mentioned all of the rifles were the same... How close are the SN's? It could be a problem that's common to all of them, although its difficult to understand how RRA would let that happen. My suggestion? 1) fire that ammo in a different 1/7 twist rifle and look for keyholing. 2) run commercial of mil-surp 55 gr. through those rifles and see what happens. There's something wrong here and I think the first step is to track it down to the ammunition/bullets or the rifles. |
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Funny part is that about 4 other guys in are department have the same problem You mentioned all of the rifles were the same... How close are the SN's? It could be a problem that's common to all of them, although its difficult to understand how RRA would let that happen. My suggestion? 1) fire that ammo in a different 1/7 twist rifle and look for keyholing. 2) run commercial of mil-surp 55 gr. through those rifles and see what happens. There's something wrong here and I think the first step is to track it down to the ammunition/bullets or the rifles. I have fired the Fed 55gr JSP that are department issued I have shoot some lake city 55gr FMJ and 64gr Winchester PSP 60gr Hornady TAP, Reloaded 69gr BTHP (OTM) all the heavier rounds have been fine even out to 300 yards. I'll have to check on the # I'm guessing there close as are department bought 300 of these rifles |
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no way that thing should be keyholeing at 100 yds with 55gn bullets. normally you wont get keyholeing in 223/5.56 unless you are shooting heavy rounds from a slow barrel. If you guys are having keyholeing problems you really should look into getting your weapons checked. Sounds to me maybe the muzzles have some issues or the entire barrel may be out of spec. Stranger things have happened. I have shot garbage ammo out of my 1/7 carbine and have NEVER had any keyhole issues...including with my cmmg 22 conversion...
I had a keyhole issue one time and that was with a mini 14. It would consistantly keyhole with a 68gn bt match hp. I cant remember what the twist was but it was really slow like 1/10 or 1/12...it was a first gen mini14 with the old garand type sights and would upper. It was junk but I wish I had it back. |
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Quoted: Also I'm wanting to place as much weight into the target as I can don't care what people say I have seen what a 5.56 in 55gr does to a human then I have seen what a 7.62x51 150gr does I have seen what a 115gr, 124gr, 147gr 9mm FMJ and JHP also 40 S&W 165gr and 180gr JHP and a 230gr 45ACP does to a human and I would take that 230gr FMJ 45ACP over all of them! Not trying to get in a fight about 9mm vs 45acp please!! 9mm is a great round for some people and my wife is going to carry it because that is what she can shoot best! You might look into a 300 AAC barrel for your personal weapon. Shoot 147-168 grain .308 bullets all day long with the standard AR bolt/carrier and magazine. Up to a 220 grain bullet will go down the pipe, but at a sub-sonic level. Just swap barrels and make bigger holes. Brass can be re-formed from .223/5.56 cases. For reloading, Hornady sells 150 FMJ grain bullets in bulk, and PRVI sells 145 grain in bulk. Both work really well with Hodgdon H110. As has been said more than once, it's either a muzzle/flash hider/comp issue or ammo. I have a 12" FN barreled 5.56 with a 1:7 twist. Using Hornady 55g FMJBT bullets, I poke round holes at 100 yards all day, every day. Also been said... Hornady's are the best bang for the buck for reloading in quantity. Best of luck narrowing it down. That is all... |
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I like the hornaday sp shoots nice blows up a jug good.
as for your statement about putting more weight down range that's just one part of the equation velocity is the other important factor. let's look at 223 vs 45 (bullet weight in grains x velocity squared)/450400= ft lbs [55x(3200x3200)]/450400=1250 ft lbs for 223 [200x(900x900)]/450400= 359 ft lbs fir a 45... let's do a heavier 223 load 77x2800x2800/450400= 1340 77 grain bthp are a nice choice just some stuff to think about a 300 could get you up around 1450 ft lbs none of this matters if your rifle is keyholeing 55grns at 100 yards that's something you need to look in to more unless the bullets you were using were so crappy they were just spinning out and destabilizing they would have to be reallly crappy for that. maybe the rounds are bouncing off something behind the target and then keyholing |
| IIRC a post was made on afrcom regarding a new ar and crappy moa up to and including keyhole issues. After back and forth with mfg, owner double checks his f/hider and it was undersize just enough to have some bullet strikes. Check your F/hider diameter, either way consider reaming one of them a few thousands and see what happens. |
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