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Posted: 1/15/2007 3:09:09 PM EDT
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So, what's the difference between these two packs: Lighfighter RAID TAG Gen 1 RAID Seems like the only difference is that the TAG RAID comes with a padded waist belt. Am I wrong? Does the TAG version have pals webbing on the bottom? I know at one time or another Eagle, TAG, and Lightfighter have made these packs, but I don't really know the difference between them. |
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I don't know of any specific design differences between different generations of RAID packs. Not saying there aren't any, just that I haven't heard what they might be. Having both TAG gear and in-house ATS gear, I'd choose TAG, all else being equal. None of my gear gets run very hard but the stuff from TAG certainly feels more durable. I also prefer the "coyote brown" from TAG over the similar color from ATS. |
Get the Eagle AIII frame sheet, it fits the RAID. Also you can order a waist belt from Eagle that fits the Raid. From what i understand, TAG made the 1st Raid packs, but now they are made by Eagle. |
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I should have just checked out the TAG on their site. www.tacticalassaultshop.com/cgistore/store.cgi?page=/new/product.html&setup=1&ida=175&idp=10&his=0|10&cart_id=4969787.3788 This one comes with a padded waist belt and 100oz bladder. |
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AIII frame sheet and waist belt fit the RAID. If I understand correctly, they were originally Eagle made, then they were made by TAG for a short period of time, and they are now made by Eagle again except for the coyote brown color (ATS will not say who makes them). My ranger green RAID has an Eagle tag on it. |
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I have only one issue with the Eagle made RAID The first and fifth columns of PALS webbing on the sides of the pack are out of spec. They are smaller than the rest of the webbing. You can't fit a a paraclete pouch through these attachment points and I have had trouble attaching others as well. ATS replaced 2 packs for me before they finally listened to me and checked it out instead of just telling me the pals webbing looks correct even though if measured it is not correct. After a month I finally got my pack back with the same issue I had returned it for. ATS did offer me a full refund but i have decided to live with the out of spec columns. I tried one of the coyote brown ATS made packs and it felt cheap to me. The Eagle one feels bombproof but the ATS ones don't feel like they are made to the same standards. I have not tried the TAG RAID but I am considering giving it a try |
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You could always ask the "experts" on lightfigher forums IIRC it went TAG, Eagle, then ATS in house. I don't have one personally and I'm not really sure which one I would go with if I eventually break down and get another pack to decorate my storage room. Either way it's a solid design with unlimited options as far as tailoring it to your needs with add-on pouches. Keep in mind that buying all those pouches could eventually run you the cost of the pack itself. |
A secret you'd be hard pressed to dig out of anyone's ass over on the Lightfighter forums. I seem to remember the "secret" being mentioned but if you asked about it you'd get dogpiled. I pretty much steer clear of those discussions now. Unless the secret is that at the time it was Lightfighter and the secret was ATS... and now Lightfigher IS ATS... or something to that effect. |
I had thought about that but I don't think so because they just bought the stitching equipment last summer. It's always possible that they bought -more- stitching equipment last summer but it's that equipment that is allowing them to make all their new line of house-brand gear. Doesn't really matter to me who it was, of course. I've been planning to buy a RAID and I'll probably get the TAG version if for no other reason than I really like their version of "coyote brown". |
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OK, I'll say this only because I recently read the whole hundred some-odd page thread over on Lightfighter prior to going w/ the TAG RAID. It went Eagle, TAG, back to Eagle, with some 'mystery' company now making one specific color. Lightfighter does not make the RAID 'in-house', though they did design it, and SHOULD own the rights to it . . . seems like there is likely some bad blood between TAG and ATS/Lightfighter. That thread was about as deep as I'm willing to go gear dork wise . . .  I went w/ the TAG version as it came w/ a waistbelt already. Top quality, very heavy duty for sure. |
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the fact of the matter is That unless they were involved in the effort (since 2002) and subsequent production of this bag, they should NOT comment on its background. I can count on one hand the number of people who can attest to this, and to the outright genesis of this pack. In the end, the pack is still in production, and still does accept the AIII framesheet it should ONLY bother you if the pack you are looking to purchase is coming from overseas or some purveyor of supposed high-speed/low cost gear |
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Hey Egg, we see the same thing w/ the S&W MP15, I'm sure Smith would like everyone to view it as 'their' version of the AR (I know apples/oranges, the RAID is unique), but none-the-less it is viewed as a Stag w/ the Smith rollmark. Lightfighter wants the RAID to be sold under their banner only, with no thought as to who actually manufactures the pack . . . well, until ATS/Lightfighter actually makes them in-house, I doubt that will happen. |
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Ive had a few RAID's by both Eagle and TAG, all purchased from LF or from folks who got them from LF. I prefer the TAG verion. With the eagle one the outside pals channel was not up to spec and you could only use MALICE clips or with the help of a leatherman, sometimes Paraclete straps. The TAG version fixed that problem, but the Eagle framesheet did not fit perfectly. Im totally out of the RAID business now, went with a Kifaru Pointman as that fits my needs much better. the RAID is an assaultpack, not really IMHO a 3 day pack. Its great for mission essential gear and perhaps a MRE, couple pair of socks and if you put a MOLLE butpack on the bottom you can carry a poncho liner. But its not the pack for 3-5 days outside the wire. |
Well put. My Pointman has seen over 100 miles on the AT and a trip to the Tetons. I love it. Perfect for 2-5 day trips. I would use the RAID as a grab and go bag for light packing. I have seen alot of rediculously overpacked RAIDs on Lightfighter, and it just doesn't seem like that is what it is designed to do. |
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I don't want to reread this again, but Lizardboy on LF mentioned that the PALS webbing is different between the TAg and the LF models. On the TAG one the webbing is even so when you attach something it's more than likely going to be be offset. Look at the specs here to see what I mean. Usually something attaching via MALICE of MOLLE will cover three spaces of webbing leaving the middle one unused. If this doesn't bother you then it probably makes no difference. I'm uber-anal and this would drive me stupid. Also the TAG doesn't have the top compression straps that the LF does. It also doesn't have as many drainage grommets.
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I've read a couple of times that it doesn't have the top compression straps. In the link you just sent from their catalog it doesn't, but a pic of the pack in Black and RG it does. I think they're may have been a recent enhancement to the pack. eta... Also, the velcro patch is much bigger in these pics. |
This a coyote RAID I bought last year when I was still stationed in San Diego. I got it in the Oceanside TAG shop and this is the model before the enhancements that they made, which is what is shown currently on their website.     
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I agree with you, and thats why I took it off.    TAG RAID pack in CB TAG first aid pouch in CB TAG double mag pouch in CB Eagle utility pouch in CB |
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