Armory Sponsor
Posted: 2/24/2016 11:54:07 PM EDT
| I have a cement basement floor with hot water radiant floor heating. The previous homeowners added the heating after the home was built, so there is the standard basement slab plus whatever is on top (plastic tubing surrounded by concrete (about 1.5-2")). I would love to hear everyone's thoughts if this will strengthen the floor enough to add a large safe or concrete block wall with a vault door? Or, do you think it will weaken the base slab by adding dead weight of water and concrete on top. Thanks!!! |
|
Quoted:
Assuming that you don't have any specifications of the top coat, I'd go with the safe rather than the block wall. Of course you know not to drill the radiant floor for safe anchors. One time i had my guys install rubber mats in a dairy. About 600 square feet, figure 400 anchors. After we got done i was talking to the manager and we remembered that there was floor heat in that area. 
We lucked out and didnt hit any. |
|
Quoted:
Assuming that you don't have any specifications of the top coat, I'd go with the safe rather than the block wall. Of course you know not to drill the radiant floor for safe anchors. I would think the exact opposite. A safe likely be more weight with a smaller footprint |
|
This is why I love this place. Everyone has a different experience to base their opinions from. All great insights!! Please keep them coming! I do know it was a standard basement slab and the heating was an after thought. A professional home builder built this house as his personal residence. The finishes and construction is top notch. I can only assume the cement work was also.
I go back and forth about the weight issue. is it an issue? You see guys with huge safes loaded to the max on basement floors... This would be a wall 8' tall with a 1400lb vault door. I just don't know.. |
| I'm not sure about the top coat/radiant heat afterthought deal but when I drilled into our hydronic in floor concrete slab I paid a building inspector that had a flir camera to come over. We started with a cold slab, turned on the heat and then started to mark out the lines in chalk. The $60 I paid him was well worth knowing I wasn't going to hit a line. As it turns out, there was in fact a line right where I wanted to drill to have the safe as close to the wall as possible. Additionally I used a horse stall mat to place both safes on to eliminate moisture transfer. |
|
Quoted:
Also just thought that they might've put down a layer of insulation, Which may promote cracking under an overload. That is a consideration and scared the h#ll out of me the first time I thought about it and before doing some research. The compressive strength of "normal" Styrofoam is 30 PSI and they make stuff that is much more crush resistant too: Link for "standard" DOW Styrofoam: http://msdssearch.dow.com/PublishedLiteratureDOWCOM/dh_0937/0901b80380937d0f.pdf?filepath=styrofoam/pdfs/noreg/178-00272.pdf&fromPage=GetDoc "Compressive Strength(1), ASTM D1621, psi (kPa), min.: 30 (207)" So if it's rated at 30 PSI /sq" then it's 4320 # /sq' or more than two tons /sq' or a carrying capacity of almost 13 tons for a safe with a 2' x 3' footprint. Ownens Corning however makes a product that is only rated at 15 #/sq" (which a safe still isn't going to damage) but it's not intended for underslab use. The products they make for underslab use start at a rating of 25 #/sq". Do the math.... Link for OC Formular: http://www.foamular.com/assets/0/144/172/174/a4fb0002-a8d9-4b80-9e1f-17778c340101.pdf Concrete for a floor slab should be 4000 PSI and even if they went with an absolute minimal mix of 2500 PSI, a safe isn't going to crack the slab. Now placing a concrete block wall upon a slab with no footer under it may be a different story! You may want to have a consult with a structural engineer before you go much further. Good luck, I hope this helps. |
|
Quoted:
Why would a safe not crack a floor but a 8 ft wall would? I didn't say it would BUT you may want to consult with an engineer about it. I bet the engineer will go on about point loading and weight distribution, tell you he/she would like to do some core samples of your slab along with doing a bunch of math calculation, then providing an answer to your question. |
|
Quoted:
I would think the exact opposite. A safe likely be more weight with a smaller footprint Quoted:
Quoted:
Assuming that you don't have any specifications of the top coat, I'd go with the safe rather than the block wall. Of course you know not to drill the radiant floor for safe anchors. I would think the exact opposite. A safe likely be more weight with a smaller footprint A 10' wide by 8' high by 8" concrete wall weighs well over 3 tons. Forget about cracking the heating pipe layer, you will crack your foundation, and it wouldn't be strong without properly tying it into the flooring and it wouldn't be to code either without footers. A safe wouldn't even touch this type of weight. Even if you go with the graffunder class-f, you're still under just the weight of one wall. |
|
You all have offered some amazing info, things I never thought about!! Thanks!
I was hoping to do this on the down low and not involve any outsiders, but it looks like I will need an engineer. How would one go about getting an engineer for this and keep the project "quiet"? |
|
Quoted:
You all have offered some amazing info, things I never thought about!! Thanks! I was hoping to do this on the down low and not involve any outsiders, but it looks like I will need an engineer. How would one go about getting an engineer for this and keep the project "quiet"? Depends, if you are trying to build a zombie apocalypse bunker then people will talk, if you are simply wanting to put a safe on a floor or make a storm shelter then no one will even care or talk about it. IMO you shouldn't need an engineer for a safe. |
Armory Sponsor