Armory Sponsor
Posted: 5/10/2012 10:59:26 AM EDT
|
On a 12.5" SBR with the Switchblock on the Noveske barrel
Want limited added length, complete flash suppression, decent sound suppression. Will still use active hearing protection at the range. |
|
I shoot a 11.5" SBR with a Mini 4 and can shoot w/out hearing pro - quieter than shooting a .22 with Subs (no suppressor).
http://www.ar15.com/forums/t_6_20/368554_AAC_Mini_4.html It doesn't add much to the overall length. Haven't used it at night to test for flash suppression. |
|
Quoted:
I shoot a 11.5" SBR with a Mini 4 and can shoot w/out hearing pro - quieter than shooting a .22 with Subs (no suppressor). http://www.ar15.com/forums/t_6_20/368554_AAC_Mini_4.html It doesn't add much to the overall length. Haven't used it at night to test for flash suppression. I think the Mini-4 is a sweet can, but it's simply not possible for a supersonic .223 to be quieter than a subsonic .22, regardless of the suppressor. I'll shoot a .22 with subs without a suppressor all day long, but there's no way I'm shooting my 10.5" with SDN-6 without hearing protection unless I need to. OP, either of those cans is going to meet the criteria you listed. The main difference with the Mini-4 (other than cost) is going to be QD, plus the ability to protect your can with a brake. Personally, that's the route I would go on a 12.5. |
|
I don't have a citation to the source handy [could someone please follow this up?], but in testing the Mini-4 has been proven quieter at the shooter's ear than the M4-2000. The M4-2000 is of course appreciably quieter at the MIL-STD location, but when was the last time you shot your rifle with the muzzle 1 meter directly to the side of your ear?
ETA: Just realized this was asking to compare the Mini-4 to the Ranger-3, not the M4-2000. But my post should still be helpful to illustrate that the OP should be looking for what is quietest at the shooter's ear, not the MIL-STD location. |
|
Quoted:
I don't have a citation to the source handy [could someone please follow this up?], but in testing the Mini-4 has been proven quieter at the shooter's ear than the M4-2000. The M4-2000 is of course appreciably quieter at the MIL-STD location, but when was the last time you shot your rifle with the muzzle 1 meter directly to the side of your ear? ETA: Just realized this was asking to compare the Mini-4 to the Ranger-3, not the M4-2000. But my post should still be helpful to illustrate that the OP should be looking for what is quietest at the shooter's ear, not the MIL-STD location. Hi, The MIL-STD 1474D does also refer to measurements at the ear: "When the operator must be present, the measurement shall be made 15 cm from the ear closest to the noise source ( ie. ,muzzle or breech as the case may be ) on a line between the operator's ear and the noise source" We commonly measure sound pressure levels at 1m left of the muzzle and at both ears of the shooter. The shooters right ear is usually the one on the side of the ejection port and our intent is to give customers factual data on how different weapons and operating types effect the levels on that side. Best Regards! Tuukka Jokinen Ase Utra sound suppressors |
Really do wish the SPR/M4 was still being produced, though I don't remember how much length it added to the rifle.
|
Quoted:
Quoted:
I shoot a 11.5" SBR with a Mini 4 and can shoot w/out hearing pro - quieter than shooting a .22 with Subs (no suppressor). http://www.ar15.com/forums/t_6_20/368554_AAC_Mini_4.html It doesn't add much to the overall length. Haven't used it at night to test for flash suppression. I think the Mini-4 is a sweet can, but it's simply not possible for a supersonic .223 to be quieter than a subsonic .22, regardless of the suppressor. I'll shoot a .22 with subs without a suppressor all day long, but there's no way I'm shooting my 10.5" with SDN-6 without hearing protection unless I need to. OP, either of those cans is going to meet the criteria you listed. The main difference with the Mini-4 (other than cost) is going to be QD, plus the ability to protect your can with a brake. Personally, that's the route I would go on a 12.5. According to Silencerresearch.com a .22 subsonic meters 110-140db depending on pistol, rifle, action, barrel length. The SilencerCo tests show unsuppressed .22CCI supersonic out of a Walther22 meters around 155db. According to Major Malfunction a Mini4 measures at both muzzle and ear 142db. Granted this was on a 16" barrel, so I will give you that a 10.5" would be louder. So the Mini4 is a bit louder than a subsonic .22 unsuppressed depending on the platform. The SDN-6 meters 2db louder than the Mini4 at the ear.. Also according to silencerresearch - subsonic 9mm meters 160db unsuppressed. 130-136 suppressed. So your theory that it's not possible for a suppressed supersonic round to be quieter than an unsuppressed subsonic round just isn't supported by the data. I usually wear hearing pro - but it's not uncomfortable to shoot the Mini4 without it. |
|
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
I shoot a 11.5" SBR with a Mini 4 and can shoot w/out hearing pro - quieter than shooting a .22 with Subs (no suppressor). http://www.ar15.com/forums/t_6_20/368554_AAC_Mini_4.html It doesn't add much to the overall length. Haven't used it at night to test for flash suppression. I think the Mini-4 is a sweet can, but it's simply not possible for a supersonic .223 to be quieter than a subsonic .22, regardless of the suppressor. I'll shoot a .22 with subs without a suppressor all day long, but there's no way I'm shooting my 10.5" with SDN-6 without hearing protection unless I need to. OP, either of those cans is going to meet the criteria you listed. The main difference with the Mini-4 (other than cost) is going to be QD, plus the ability to protect your can with a brake. Personally, that's the route I would go on a 12.5. According to Silencerresearch.com a .22 subsonic meters 110-140db depending on pistol, rifle, action, barrel length. The SilencerCo tests show unsuppressed .22CCI supersonic out of a Walther22 meters around 155db. According to Major Malfunction a Mini4 measures at both muzzle and ear 142db. Granted this was on a 16" barrel, so I will give you that a 10.5" would be louder. So the Mini4 is a bit louder than a subsonic .22 unsuppressed depending on the platform. The SDN-6 meters 2db louder than the Mini4 at the ear.. Also according to silencerresearch - subsonic 9mm meters 160db unsuppressed. 130-136 suppressed. So your theory that it's not possible for a suppressed supersonic round to be quieter than an unsuppressed subsonic round just isn't supported by the data. I usually wear hearing pro - but it's not uncomfortable to shoot the Mini4 without it. Thanks for the data, but I only compared suppressed supersonic .223 to unsuppressed subsonic .22, none of that other stuff. So the data does support what I said. |
|
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
I shoot a 11.5" SBR with a Mini 4 and can shoot w/out hearing pro - quieter than shooting a .22 with Subs (no suppressor). http://www.ar15.com/forums/t_6_20/368554_AAC_Mini_4.html It doesn't add much to the overall length. Haven't used it at night to test for flash suppression. I think the Mini-4 is a sweet can, but it's simply not possible for a supersonic .223 to be quieter than a subsonic .22, regardless of the suppressor. I'll shoot a .22 with subs without a suppressor all day long, but there's no way I'm shooting my 10.5" with SDN-6 without hearing protection unless I need to. OP, either of those cans is going to meet the criteria you listed. The main difference with the Mini-4 (other than cost) is going to be QD, plus the ability to protect your can with a brake. Personally, that's the route I would go on a 12.5. According to Silencerresearch.com a .22 subsonic meters 110-140db depending on pistol, rifle, action, barrel length. The SilencerCo tests show unsuppressed .22CCI supersonic out of a Walther22 meters around 155db. According to Major Malfunction a Mini4 measures at both muzzle and ear 142db. Granted this was on a 16" barrel, so I will give you that a 10.5" would be louder. So the Mini4 is a bit louder than a subsonic .22 unsuppressed depending on the platform. The SDN-6 meters 2db louder than the Mini4 at the ear.. Also according to silencerresearch - subsonic 9mm meters 160db unsuppressed. 130-136 suppressed. So your theory that it's not possible for a suppressed supersonic round to be quieter than an unsuppressed subsonic round just isn't supported by the data. I usually wear hearing pro - but it's not uncomfortable to shoot the Mini4 without it. Thanks for the data, but I only compared suppressed supersonic .223 to unsuppressed subsonic .22, none of that other stuff. So the data does support what I said. AAC SPR meters 130 at the muzzle - 10db less than the 140db .22subs unsuppressed at the muzzle. The .22 subs suppressed hover around 110db. |
|
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
I shoot a 11.5" SBR with a Mini 4 and can shoot w/out hearing pro - quieter than shooting a .22 with Subs (no suppressor). http://www.ar15.com/forums/t_6_20/368554_AAC_Mini_4.html It doesn't add much to the overall length. Haven't used it at night to test for flash suppression. I think the Mini-4 is a sweet can, but it's simply not possible for a supersonic .223 to be quieter than a subsonic .22, regardless of the suppressor. I'll shoot a .22 with subs without a suppressor all day long, but there's no way I'm shooting my 10.5" with SDN-6 without hearing protection unless I need to. OP, either of those cans is going to meet the criteria you listed. The main difference with the Mini-4 (other than cost) is going to be QD, plus the ability to protect your can with a brake. Personally, that's the route I would go on a 12.5. According to Silencerresearch.com a .22 subsonic meters 110-140db depending on pistol, rifle, action, barrel length. The SilencerCo tests show unsuppressed .22CCI supersonic out of a Walther22 meters around 155db. According to Major Malfunction a Mini4 measures at both muzzle and ear 142db. Granted this was on a 16" barrel, so I will give you that a 10.5" would be louder. So the Mini4 is a bit louder than a subsonic .22 unsuppressed depending on the platform. The SDN-6 meters 2db louder than the Mini4 at the ear.. Also according to silencerresearch - subsonic 9mm meters 160db unsuppressed. 130-136 suppressed. So your theory that it's not possible for a suppressed supersonic round to be quieter than an unsuppressed subsonic round just isn't supported by the data. I usually wear hearing pro - but it's not uncomfortable to shoot the Mini4 without it. Thanks for the data, but I only compared suppressed supersonic .223 to unsuppressed subsonic .22, none of that other stuff. So the data does support what I said. AAC SPR meters 130 at the muzzle - 10db less than the 140db .22subs unsuppressed at the muzzle. The .22 subs suppressed hover around 110db. Where does that 140db number for unsuppressed .22 subs at the muzzle come from? Barrel length and host? |
| If it's for home defense as well, I'd have to recommend the Ranger3. More overall sound reduction = less echo from every single direction when you shoot indoors. Muzzle and ear dB might be different at the range, but inside, it's pressure wave from every angle. |
|
Quoted:
If it's for home defense as well, I'd have to recommend the Ranger3. More overall sound reduction = less echo from every single direction when you shoot indoors. Muzzle and ear dB might be different at the range, but inside, it's pressure wave from every angle. Where have you seen testing numbers on the Ranger 3? Plus, a couple db is really not going to matter. Chasing decibels is a terrible idea with rifle cans. |
|
No, I haven't, only numbers on the ranger 2.
That was 6 dB lower than the Mini4, which is a pretty huge amount given how dB are exponentially rising. Sure the numbers for your ear is higher for it, but like I said, the muzzle blast is the important part, you'll get that rebounded everywhere, so I'd estimate that forward sound is more important indoors than by ear sound outdoors. Were I shooting outside, Mini4, any day of the week. :) (personally planning on a 10.5 and M4-S for HD, unless something else reflex and short pops up) Edit: Excuse me, I actually misremembered, forgot the edit on the silencer tests. The difference was only 3 dB between the Ranger2 and the Mini4. ASSUMING the Ranger3 isn't any better (haven't seen tests), I'd agree and call it pretty much a wash. Unless you want to pin the ranger3 and save a second tax stamp. |
Armory Sponsor