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Posted: 11/26/2009 12:01:51 PM EDT
Free Retro Beer to the first person who can figure out what I've got here... |
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Pic is horrible bro,could be any number of rifles.Front site makes me want to say Jap Arasaka Well look, would you rather I buy a super pwn camera, or more guns? 
Type-38 Arisaka. 100% original, intact Mum. More Beer for the Sniper! Yes Hans,,buy a better camera to show off your NEW retro firearms better!!! 
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Well...Interesting Mosin, how about I spice things up with the story of that Type-38? (Better photos later, maybe. See my original post for now.)
This particular rifle was manufactured at the Kokura Arsenal (Primary target of the second live drop of a nuclear bomb, btw!), from series #25, serial number 34,519. As yet I am unable to even guess at a year of manufacture, but I assume sometime after 1940 as Series 20 rifles ran from 1933-1940. I can't be sure how far after 1940, though. To complicate things, it seems that multiple series were produced at the same time. For example, while Kokura's Series 20 rifles seem to be from 1933-1940, Nagoya's Series 26 rifles are also from 1933-1940. I guess it's kinda a Colt-style record keeping system, hm? Now...The short version of the story of getting this thing to the US goes like this... One night one Guadalcanal, some unlucky Jap picks a fight with a Marine on Guadalcanal. This Marine is trying to sleep at the moment, but he's pretty damn big, and he's pretty damn pissed that somebody is trying to bayonet him while he's sleeping. So, unable to grab his Thompson while fighting to save his life with both hands, he knocks the rifle away from the Japanese soldier, beats his foe to a pulp, chokes him out, picks the rifle up, and finishes his opponent off with his own bayonet. When he came home, his gun-grabbing wife HATED that he displayed his trophy rifle (The bayonet had been traded during the war) in HER living room. His children both grew up to become hippies, and took a dim view of such a trophy. When he finally passed away, his family did the only thing a responsible resident of their glorious city would do to make sure that the rifle would never hurt anyone again... They threw it in the trash can.... My dad came pedaling by on his bike one day, and observed what appeared to be the muzzle of a rifle sticking out of a trash can. And so, he rode home, with a Type-38 across the handlebars of his bike. (Try doing that today...Eh?) After stripping it down, it wasn't much different than the 1903 Springfield his uncle had taught him all about after all, he gooped it up in oil, stored it away in mom and dad's attic and forgot about it... Till his baby boy came bouncing into the living room with it one day.
Back then this thing was taller than me, I was just a little guy, and it was actually the first firearm I ever touched. Funny thing is, I STILL haven't shot it yet...Going to have to do something about that... |
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did someone say non-petrol based flamethrowers?
i know i've posted them in this forum before but, since we're talking MNs and and other assorted "flamethrowers", here is my pair of trunk junk scout builds... 18" chopped m91/30 M.N. 16.25" chopped m24/47 turk mauser 
of course mine have nothing on this... I see no no good purpose for SBRed Mosin/Nagants but, for your viewing pleasure may i present the Obryez... 
And a LINK to the Obryez in action... K. |
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i've seen it... really it's hard to justify a $200 stamp and another approx. $5-700 for a supressor to outfit a $100 revolver. that said it's a great idea, only practical way to suppress a revolver i suppose, i used to laugh my ass off at all those cheasy '80s and '90s movies where everyone had an uzi or some other machine pistol that was dead nuts accurate as well as having a ba-zillion round capacity in the one and only "clip" they had for it, but no worries many of them had a back up quick detachable suppressor for their big smith & wesson magnum wheel guns...
if i was a manufacturer and cost wasn't an issue, it'd be all over little projects like this... K. |
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Nope, not a Finn, way rarer than any Finn Mosin, M1 it is a Russian Mosin but that's easy, the correct model is tough part! OlGunner got it! I didn't have much time last night to really look at it, but the 1907s are really cool. So's tha Obrez - WOW - better hang on to that one! ETA: FWIW, Russian 'security forces' used a partisan load they made up using the 78gr bullet from a Nagant revolver load and the powder from same load with wadding stuffed into a Mosin 7.62x54 case. Out of an unsuppressed 91/30 they had about the same pop as a .22 short. They were used for midnight 'political' visits. They also built suppressors that weren't much larger than an XM177 moderator but worked much better. WIth the aforementioned load, about like a 9mm suppressed carbine. They are known as 'partisan loads' or 'poacher' loads and since you don't have to worry about cycling the action, work great and are a great way to hunt small game in an emergency with a Mosin Nagant. I would like to make some up and pick up an M39 or 91/30 and try this. THe M38 would work fine, but the length of the 91/30's barrel is what helps attenuate the report. I have some pics on the home computer of the Russian suppressors - when I get home I'll post them. They look a LOT like the XM177. OH - I'm thinking that this 'partisan' load is likely what they fire out of an Obrez - although they coull load it to magnum velocities easily, considering the case size and strength of the action. I'd love to make one out of an old beatup carbine, but that would be wrong... |
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About what an accurate 601 clone would cost if you used all original parts and an NDS lower...$4200.00 Is that what an all original (except lower) 601 is going for these days? Wow. Well,I'm kinda guessin,but going by the prices we've seen on the last couple of 601 "sets" like the one bigbore sold for his friend $3000 + I think that closed at,and another set that closed about $2800,they had original 1/14 barrels and other great parts,but neither were complete,,and what you paid just for "original HGs,,yea,I would say it's real close... |
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That Finn is wearing a reworked Russian stock BTW. I would really like an M39 someday. Have an M38 carbine - need to go shoot it soon - in the evening! Morg,,does it flash like an Italian Carcano mountain carbine??? I have Both and the M38 is a flame thrower compared to the little Carcano. Wow Hal,,that must be damn near scary to shoot then.I used to have a "little" carcano in the larger bullet size IIRC they came in 6.5 and 7.0 mm(???) been alot of years,,and you could light your smoke from 10 feet away and take the skin off your face when that went off..When I shot it EVERYONE would move away from the firing line,,also had a real sharp crack report to it that was annoying even with good ear plugs in.. |
I heard a story awhile back of a guy setting the berm on fire with his Mosin carbine. It doesn't surprise me a bit. The fireball is truly impressive. BTW, if you guys check out the Obrez youtube thing, also check out the Nagant silenced revolver video. VERY cool. Considering you can get these for $79 or so at J&G, with a cheap can and stamp they'd still be very reasonable. Just the thing that scares politicians. Wait, I didn't say that... (No wonder I was on a special federal security check-in at the airport. WTF over?  )
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Nope, not a Finn, way rarer than any Finn Mosin, M1 it is a Russian Mosin but that's easy, the correct model is tough part! Like I said,I'm not too familiar with the models,,however there is this guy I know who's site I'll have to go to now to find the correct model....I hope you aaahhh I mean he has it listed there!!! Be right back
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The rear sight really had me wondering. I thought it was a type 1, but the base profile isn't rounded...it required some quick research.
Cool old piece! My only (and limited) hands-on Mosin exposure is thanks to Morg308––I really expected him to call this one on sight. |
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It is amazing!, took all of 16mins for the "retro plastic gun fans" LOL, to id one of the rarest military bolt guns out there! My hats off to everybody here, not just for all the knowledge & help on the M16/AR15 I've gotten from members here but for the impressive knowledge of other military weapons that also shows up here!
These rifles (St Petersburg Cavalry Carbines) appear to be made from 1891 infantry rifles, very similiar to the Finns as all they're Mosin variants were mfg on Russian produced receivers, although the Finns armed their entire Army & Civil Guard w/their own versions of the Mosin they never mfg a Mosin receiver!, they were all built on captured/purchased/or traded Russian Mosins, even they're M85 (1985) sniper rifle was built using recycled Russian receivers! so Morg was close! The Cavalry school carbines were built off full length 1891 rifles, you can see the step-down of the original 1891 barrel behind the front band, w/modified 1907 type sights, since they were destined for use by Cavalry the sling slots were filled in & side mounted (turn of the century Cavalry style) sling attachments were fitted, the housing on the right by the rear band was for the bayonet which was specific to this model, it may be the model known as the Gulkevich's bayonet, which had a socket similiar to the normal 1891 Mosin but there was a hinge so the bayonet blade folded backwards alongside the stock, if this is the correct bayonet for the rifle it would difficult to use though as you'd have to dismount the socket section from the front sight, hinge the blade back then slide the blade into the housing along w/the socket section & then spin the lock ring to lock in place! I guess it would be just the sort of thing to use in a school to make things difficult for the students! |
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That Finn is wearing a reworked Russian stock BTW. I would really like an M39 someday. Have an M38 carbine - need to go shoot it soon - in the evening! Morg,,does it flash like an Italian Carcano mountain carbine??? I have Both and the M38 is a flame thrower compared to the little Carcano. |
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That Finn is wearing a reworked Russian stock BTW. I would really like an M39 someday. Have an M38 carbine - need to go shoot it soon - in the evening! Morg,,does it flash like an Italian Carcano mountain carbine??? I have Both and the M38 is a flame thrower compared to the little Carcano. Wow Hal,,that must be damn near scary to shoot then.I used to have a "little" carcano in the larger bullet size IIRC they came in 6.5 and 7.0 mm(???) been alot of years,,and you could light your smoke from 10 feet away and take the skin off your face when that went off..When I shot it EVERYONE would move away from the firing line,,also had a real sharp crack report to it that was annoying even with good ear plugs in.. That's too funny. Several years ago a few buds and I were shooting in a clay pit and we all got on line and had a mad minute of rapid fire; ala' Knob Creek Style. My buddy to the left of me was firing an HK91. They were midway thru a mag when I stepped into the fray and began firing the Carcano. When the smoke cleared my buddy was bug-eyed and shouting expletives to give him some damn warning before firing that beast again. The concussion from the Carcano scared the crap out of him even while firing a 91.  I'm still the brunt of many Oswald jokes.
The Carcano I have is 6.5 cal., M91/24 Carbine; but they also came in 7.35. The Italian surplus is brutal. I use Norma which is cleaner, less fireball and the Hornady stuff. The little Mosin will wake you up too. A lot of it depends on how dirty the powder is, etc, but it definitely lights up the night. |
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did someone say non-petrol based flamethrowers? i know i've posted them in this forum before but, since we're talking MNs and and other assorted "flamethrowers", here is my pair of trunk junk scout builds... 18" chopped m91/30 M.N. 16.25" chopped m24/47 turk mauser http://i53.photobucket.com/albums/g65/jasonkirby/0920090410.jpg of course mine have nothing on this... I see no no good purpose for SBRed Mosin/Nagants but, for your viewing pleasure may i present the Obryez... http://homepage3.nifty.com/LAMPOPO/Foto1/Obrez.JPG http://i53.photobucket.com/albums/g65/jasonkirby/obrezmotivate.jpg http://img114.imageshack.us/img114/8382/obrezvintmosinaqc1.jpg And a LINK to the Obryez in action... K. Kar 15: I've been looking to build something similar to your "trunk junk" Mosin Nagant. You mentioned that you made this from a 91/30 and cut the barrel to 18". How does this affect the range and recoil/flash? Will a 16" barrel take away any apprecialble velocity? I am also wondering if a .30 cal flash suppressor will make much of a difference. Thanks for the picture. I now have some more ideas to work offf of. Thank You |
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That Finn is wearing a reworked Russian stock BTW. I would really like an M39 someday. Have an M38 carbine - need to go shoot it soon - in the evening! Morg,,does it flash like an Italian Carcano mountain carbine??? I have Both and the M38 is a flame thrower compared to the little Carcano. Wow Hal,,that must be damn near scary to shoot then.I used to have a "little" carcano in the larger bullet size IIRC they came in 6.5 and 7.0 mm(???) been alot of years,,and you could light your smoke from 10 feet away and take the skin off your face when that went off..When I shot it EVERYONE would move away from the firing line,,also had a real sharp crack report to it that was annoying even with good ear plugs in.. That's too funny. Several years ago a few buds and I were shooting in a clay pit and we all got on line and had a mad minute of rapid fire; ala' Knob Creek Style. My buddy to the left of me was firing an HK91. They were midway thru a mag when I stepped into the fray and began firing the Carcano. When the smoke cleared my buddy was bug-eyed and shouting expletives to give him some damn warning before firing that beast again. The concussion from the Carcano scared the crap out of him even while firing a 91. I'm still the brunt of many Oswald jokes.
The Carcano I have is 6.5 cal., M91/24 Carbine; but they also came in 7.35. The Italian surplus is brutal. I use Norma which is cleaner, less fireball and the Hornady stuff. The little Mosin will wake you up too. A lot of it depends on how dirty the powder is, etc, but it definitely lights up the night.  ^^^
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did someone say non-petrol based flamethrowers? i know i've posted them in this forum before but, since we're talking MNs and and other assorted "flamethrowers", here is my pair of trunk junk scout builds... 18" chopped m91/30 M.N. 16.25" chopped m24/47 turk mauser http://i53.photobucket.com/albums/g65/jasonkirby/0920090410.jpg K. Kar 15: I've been looking to build something similar to your "trunk junk" Mosin Nagant. You mentioned that you made this from a 91/30 and cut the barrel to 18". How does this affect the range and recoil/flash? Will a 16" barrel take away any apprecialble velocity? I am also wondering if a .30 cal flash suppressor will make much of a difference. Thanks for the picture. I now have some more ideas to work offf of. Thank You txsgar15a2, i can't realy answer all of your questions but i'll give those that i can a shot... * range, hell man the thing had a 1000+ meter(i don't remember the actual last incriment) ladder sight, i dunno it'll shoot a long damn ways . i'm assuming you actully ment accuracy...
* accuracy, with mil surp crap ammo(all i have ever and probably will ever shoot through it), and a crap $60 NCstar brand 4x pistol scope(it now sports a 2-7, but i haven't zeroed that one in yet) i'd feel fairly confident at guesing sub-aroundish 2moa @100(usually only shot clays and plinked with it, never actully shot for a grouping) * recoil, find a friend with a m38 or m44 nagant and take it for a test fire, about the same recoil, maybe a touch more comfortable with the synthetic stock/rubber recoil pad(for refference it's roughly comparible to a fairly hot load from a comparible bolt gun in .308 i.m.h.o. it does kick a bit espicially after an afternoon of x54r downrange, nothing like a .375 H&H mag though )
* velocity, i dunno i'm sure you loose a bit but probably not a "whole lot", i don't ave a chrono but i bet some googeling will find you reference charts for similar loads out of differing lenght barrels for both .308 and .30-06(i understand that the 7.62x54r fall pretty much between the two) * flash, uh yeah plenty of that, not as bad as my 16" 7.92 mauser though, that thing is a much bigger beast, a .30 FH/FSupressor certainly couldn't hurt. if you role with a m38 instead of the m91/30 you'll already have a shorter carbine length barrel(with the front sight still intact, you can swap the rear leaf right iron sight right back in if your scope or mount ever craps the bed, and still be gtg) and someone(i don't remember the company right off hand) makes a fairly decent looking quick pin on brake/hider for the nagants(with front sight still intact), you can usually even find them on amazon... lemme look around and i'll try to find the scout rifle thread we had going in the armory for a while... if i can find it i''ll edit witha link. feel free to ask anything else if you like they aren't exactly high dollar or high quality guns but they are damn fun to shoot and aside from being a bit heavy still for what they are, they are damn handy. they wound make a great car stopper/engine killer if you were running a checkpoint at the entrance to your street, a la post kartina disaster imho  ...
and back when mil surp x54r and 8mm were cheap, they were very economical to shoot also... i don't post on youtube so don't blame me for any of the asshattery, but their are a bunch of videos over there is you search "nagant scout"... here's a thread on scouts... and another thread with some more info in here(lots of enfield rifles and a few scouts)... and there was another one that was even better iirc, but i'll be damned if i can find it now... hope this helps... K. |
| A couple years agoI bought a Mosin M38 for my truck gun. I've never shot paper for groupings but I can hit a chest sized steel target at 230 yards off hand all day. There are times were I think I would opt for that gun rather than my AR for a go-to gun. I got lucky too, some of the triggers on those things can be ridiculously heavy. Checked my pull at my buddies and it clocks in at 5-6 lbs. |
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Pic is horrible bro,could be any number of rifles.Front site makes me want to say Jap Arasaka Well look, would you rather I buy a super pwn camera, or more guns?
Type-38 Arisaka. 100% original, intact Mum. More Beer for the Sniper! No we want you to take it outside where there is some LIGHT. You need some good lighting fixtures to get decent indoor pics. Intact Mum –– Nice. 
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