Armory Sponsor
Posted: 3/12/2009 4:38:50 PM EDT
The casings of these reloaded rounds are getting "stuck' in the chamber after being fired. I quoted stuck because with a little extra uummfff on the bolt I can extract the casing. I have some off the shelf PMC ammo that shoots and extracts with two fingers on the bolt. The gun is a Ligamec Ultralite 22" barrel on a Stag Arms lower and the rounds are Lake City brass (once fired) some with ball bullets and some with API bullets. Both behave the same. All of these rounds were loaded the same way so I expect them all to behave the same way. Does anyone have any suggestions about how to deal with this ammo? 
|
|
Hi 50bmger,
First we call it brass or maybe shell. It might be helpful for someone to know what year is stamped on the head. This PMC rounds that you speak of, is this new ammo or was it also reloaded by you? I have heard that some years of different brass has been known to be harder than other years. And I have heard some speak of some brass being on the soft side. If you tell us what year brass you have, one the brass experts might be able to make a comment about the brass. When you resized the brass, did you bump the shoulder? You mention that this once fired brass. Do you know where this brass came from? If it was fired in a machine gun, it might not have been sized back enough. Brass expands when fired, and shrinks back some. I am wondering if it was semi tight when you put it in the chamber and when it fired and contracted, it did not contract as much. But this is also a sign of hard brass too. So, whats the date? Oh what is the weight of the bullet? What powder and charge? Max |
|
Quoted:
The casings of these reloaded rounds are getting "stuck' in the chamber after being fired. I quoted stuck because with a little extra uummfff on the bolt I can extract the casing. I have some off the shelf PMC ammo that shoots and extracts with two fingers on the bolt. The gun is a Ligamec Ultralite 22" barrel on a Stag Arms lower and the rounds are Lake City brass (once fired) some with ball bullets and some with API bullets. Both behave the same. All of these rounds were loaded the same way so I expect them all to behave the same way. Does anyone have any suggestions about how to deal with this ammo? What's the powder type & charge? PMC factory is generally pretty warm stuff. If you're having no problem with PMC binding in the chamber, you are almost CERTAINLY running too hot of a reload. As Exhogflyer & Max-Paul said, you need to let us know more about the load before we can help. But it sounds to me like too hot of a load. What may be happening is that with too hot of a load for that gun, your brass is being forced to expand beyond its capacity to spring back from the chamber walls. This means your load is too hot. Back off the charge 5 grains and try again. But I really want to know what the details of your load are. Brass type. Primer type. Powder. Powder volume. Bullet type. Overall Length. Whether you FL Sized the brass all the way. etc. All the particulars. Don't blow yourself up. It's winter/spring right now. Shooting a load that is that overpressure during cool weather can be an explosion waiting to happen on a hot summer day. -David Edgewood, NM |
|
It sounds like to hot of a load to me, not a brass issue. I have some PMC factory stuff and it is pretty hot, so if your reloads are sticking and not the PMC I agree with David, it is probably a little to much powder for your rifle. I have a rifle that shoots 222 grains of 5010 with AP bullets and the bolt opens with ease, but with 225 grains of the same powder I need a rubber mallet to open the bolt. I have another rifle that will shoot the 225 grain load with no problem.
Ed |
I did not reload these myself. I will talk to the guy who did today to find out the powder type and volume and other particulars and let you all know.
| So I have been unable to get hold of the guy who reloaded this ammo. Thus I am unable to provide the desired particulars. Although I do not currently reload ammo this experience has caused me to start collecting the required equipment and knowledge. One final pair of questions I have but I don't know if they can even be answered without more information is whether this ammo is safe and if not what should I do with it. I am concerned about it based on some of the comments in this thread. If this question cannot really be answered I understand, and again thank you for all of the informed responses. |
|
Quoted:
So I have been unable to get hold of the guy who reloaded this ammo. Thus I am unable to provide the desired particulars. Although I do not currently reload ammo this experience has caused me to start collecting the required equipment and knowledge. One final pair of questions I have but I don't know if they can even be answered without more information is whether this ammo is safe and if not what should I do with it. I am concerned about it based on some of the comments in this thread. If this question cannot really be answered I understand, and again thank you for all of the informed responses. I wouldn't shoot it in that rifle anymore. If you do know anyone that reloads 50, you could have them pull a couple rounds apart and weigh the powder. All that will do is tell you the charge but it won't make it any safer to shoot in that gun. But it's pretty obvious that this stuff is too hot (not safe) for your current gun. Might be fine in someone elses gun. I'd suggest either selling it to someone with an M2 or just sticking it in the back of your ammo stash. When you get all the equipment to load your own 50 BMG ammo, you can pull the bullets out of that, toss the powder, resize it, charge it with a safe load of powder, and reseat those bullets. At least that's what I would do. And for the record, that brings up a point I think everyone should pay attention to. If you don't know who loaded a particular batch of remanufactured ammo, don't buy it unless the price is so cheap you can salvage the components (other than the powder). I would only shoot ammo from someone I know is REALLY good at reloading OR from a licensed ammunition manufacturer. Pretty sure Mr. Ben is a licensed manufacturer and I know Randy at www.thunderammo.com is a licensed manufacturer. -David Edgewood, NM |
|
50bmger,
Ditto what Dave said. But if you do know someone who reloads 50s. You might buy some powder (30 rounds per pound, do the math) and ask them to help you pull the bullets. Dump the powder and reload with the new powder and a safe charge. Example is get some 50BMG powder and load with a safe 215 grs. Otherwise stash the remain rounds till such time that you have all of the stuff needed and do it yourself. BTW where abouts do you live? I am a few miles west of St. Louis, Mo and would be willing to help you if you live near (couple hrs drive). But I agree, stop shooting this ammo. I was not thinking hot ammo at the time I replied the first time. I asked before but sure it got overlooked. What is the date stamp of those LC brass? Do you have a dial caliper and have you checked the dimension of both the PMC and the reloads in question? Max |
|
Max-Paul
Thanks for the offer but I'm a few miles outside Helena Montana. I will most likely try to find someone nearby that can help me on the journey of gaining the correct knowledge to reload. It sounds like redoing these rounds with a smaller charge is the way to go. Fortunately my financial commitment is pretty small for these so I see it as a small price for an education. As for the brass it is stamped LC 07. And I have some digital calipers that could get me to .001" do you think that is precise enough or would the difference be smaller than that? It will be a couple days before I can measure them. |
|
Doesn't really matter what the size of the loaded ammo is if I understand the problem correctly.
1. The remanufactured rounds, unfired, go in the chamber and you can close the bolt without undue effort. 2. Once in the chamber (unfired) you can open the bolt and extract the rounds without undue effort. 3. When you fired the rounds, the bolt is tight and a bitch to extract. If the above three statements are true, you have too hot of a load for that gun. If you are having trouble with either items ONE or TWO you have a brass sizing problem, in which case the powder charge may or may not be the culprit but the brass is definitely not sized small enough for your chamber. Pretty simple, really. -David Edgewood, NM |
All of the statements are true. The unfired ammo loads and unloads easily. It sounds like you are correct about them being too hot. Again, thanks for all of the great responses and advice, I have learned a lot. I have also contacted one of the folks mentioned above to acquire some higher quality ammo. 
|
|
David, Like you, I am now 99% in agreement. But for the sake of discussion it would be interesting to find out if there were much difference between the two different shells. Also this gives 5bmger a first look at the size of the brass (aka blue print the dimensions of good sized brass).
50bmger, yes the digital calibers should do ok at .001 min reading. I do not know if you have ever reloaded before. But get familiar with what you have now, both the PMC and the LC cartridges. Also take good notes from who ever is going to give you a hand. If reloading is new to you, you might want to read the a book titled "The ABCs of reloading". even though it covers smaller cartridges. Everything in that book can be applied to larger cartridges too. Like feeling for a dip in the inside wall of the brass for stretching and as a sign it is about to have a head separation. That is one reason many will avoid brass that was shot out of a machine gun. David is one of several old hands here that know their 50 BMG stuff. Good man to listen to.. Max |
|
OK so I had a chance to make some measurements so here goes:
I measured three parts of the ammo. The specifications I referred to are found on Wikipedia here. The three measurements I made, with nominal numbers listed were: (1) neck diameter (0.560), (2) overall length (5.450), (3) brass length (3.945) I measured the reloaded ammo and PMC Bronze ammo both fired and unfired (where possible). The results are as follows. PMC Unfired: (1) neck dia. = .552, (2) overall length = 5.436, (3) brass length = 3.893 Reloaded Unfired: (1) neck dia. = .553, (2) overall length = 5.436, (3) brass length = 3.920 PMC Fired: (1) neck dia. = .563, (2) overall length = NA, (3) brass length = 3.896 Reloaded Fired: (1) neck dia. = .562, (2) overall length = NA, (3) brass length = 3.901 The one place I thought the brass would vary the most was the neck dia. because my assumption was that this is where the brass would get stuck in the chamber. It is interesting that the differences of the fired especially ones semmed to be practically the same. I suppose this could be becasue the limit of the ID of the chamber only allows the brass to expand a certain amount but I don't know. If I should try some other measurements please let me know and I thank anyone who is still interested in this otherwise academic exercise.
|
|
Brass needs to be trimmed to length, the reloaded stuff with 3.920 really needs it. Your fired stuff seems like it's really stretching when fired, I've never seen that much in my rifle on one firing. Is this brass factory new, factory once fired (bolt or semi) or once fired Military?
Also measure the the body down by the bottom of the case or from the bottom of the case up to about 3/4" and see what you come up with. |
Armory Sponsor