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Posted: 7/11/2013 12:51:26 PM EDT
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So, I just picked up an TC Omega for deer season this year. And am rather new to the whole Muzzle loader scene. I had borrowed a buddy's Hawken for last season.
I have been reading that some people have success in shooting a patched round ball out of a faster twist barrel and am just looking for any insights that the Arfcom community might be able to provide. I understand that less powder (or a single pellet) should be used, but am looking for recommendations on patches, balls, etc. |
| The twist and rifling depth is all wrong for roundball. I've seen people do it, and it wasn't what I would call a success, but they seemed happy with it. They had a younger kid shooting with a one pellet load and the kid was getting pie plate groups at 50 yards. I could see it working for deer at close range. |
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I had been reading about the twist rate for round ball and I wouldn't hunt with one. I just like shootings myy guns and was looking for something less expensive with decent accuracy (pie plates at 50 yards would do) and use a good sabot or powerbelt for deer. Probably should have explained better, more round ball for plinking as it were.
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If your goal is to develop the most effective load for hunting, I'd look elsewhere. Your twist & all is optimized for a saboted projectile. You could try a full bore conical too. I would look to a Honady SST, Shockwave, or a copper bullet from Barnes. Another option is to buy sabots separate & use a pistol bullet of your choice.
The ballistics and accuracy of a round ball will not match that of sabots in your gun. I'd also use Blackhorn 209 powder. |
| you can shoot a round ball out of a mid twist gun, you just have to lower your powder charge to change the velocity. Instead of 100 you might find a sweet spot of 75 -80 gr per volume. I have damn near a dozen BP rifles and my bread and butter caplock is a T/C Renegade that is a mid twist gun and I shoot the hell out of it with a 60 gr volume charge of 777. I've always had exits on deer even out to 75 yards or so with a round ball. |
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you can shoot a round ball out of a mid twist gun, you just have to lower your powder charge to change the velocity. Instead of 100 you might find a sweet spot of 75 -80 gr per volume. I have damn near a dozen BP rifles and my bread and butter caplock is a T/C Renegade that is a mid twist gun and I shoot the hell out of it with a 60 gr volume charge of 777. I've always had exits on deer even out to 75 yards or so with a round ball. Are you using a cloth patch for the round ball? |
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Are you using a cloth patch for the round ball? Quoted:
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you can shoot a round ball out of a mid twist gun, you just have to lower your powder charge to change the velocity. Instead of 100 you might find a sweet spot of 75 -80 gr per volume. I have damn near a dozen BP rifles and my bread and butter caplock is a T/C Renegade that is a mid twist gun and I shoot the hell out of it with a 60 gr volume charge of 777. I've always had exits on deer even out to 75 yards or so with a round ball. Are you using a cloth patch for the round ball? Always. Without a patch you will have severely reduced accuracy and the ball will have a hard time staying seated on the powder. I imagine barrel leading would be a serious problem as well. By mid-twist gun, our Okie friend is referring to a gun with a 1:48 inch twist, TC's Hawken and Renegade fit the bill, as do several others. I don't know of any inlines that have that twist rate though. 1:28 is standard for inline guns, and that rifling twist is very fast compared to the preferred roundball twist rate of 1:60-72. |
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Are you using a cloth patch for the round ball? Quoted:
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you can shoot a round ball out of a mid twist gun, you just have to lower your powder charge to change the velocity. Instead of 100 you might find a sweet spot of 75 -80 gr per volume. I have damn near a dozen BP rifles and my bread and butter caplock is a T/C Renegade that is a mid twist gun and I shoot the hell out of it with a 60 gr volume charge of 777. I've always had exits on deer even out to 75 yards or so with a round ball. Are you using a cloth patch for the round ball? In the Renegade ( a 1:48 twist gun) I have 2 loads that the gun tack drives with when using a round ball. 1) a pillow ticked patch prelubed with bore butter and the 60 gr/volume of 777 and 2) a poly patch ( plastic sabot for RB) and the same powder load. If I move the charge up to 70-75 the accuracy is still there to a degree, but If I load it to a 90 gr/volume charge it really opens up. I have been fortunate to have killed close to a hundred deer with a BP rifle ( of many types) and have never lost a deer. I hunt in the mountains of SE Ok and all of my shots are within 75 yards, with a majority being under 20. for some reason this rifle is hexed with a 60-70 gr limitation. with the 60 gr charge and a PRB, I have never recovered a ball. BP rifles of any type are known for leave light Blood Trails due to the low velocities. I've never seen a difference in blood trails by the PRB or a Maxi Ball or a saboted load. this gun has done this with every type of powder I have ever tried from Goex FF, to pioneer powder to Pyrodex R/S and Select. my grandfather was a gunsmith who specialized in Black Powder and Antique Firearms and I have been lucky to have grown up shooting all sorts of BP rifles and pistols. I enjoy shooting them all. |
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Always. Without a patch you will have severely reduced accuracy and the ball will have a hard time staying seated on the powder. I imagine barrel leading would be a serious problem as well. By mid-twist gun, our Okie friend is referring to a gun with a 1:48 inch twist, TC's Hawken and Renegade fit the bill, as do several others. I don't know of any inlines that have that twist rate though. 1:28 is standard for inline guns, and that rifling twist is very fast compared to the preferred roundball twist rate of 1:60-72. Quoted:
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you can shoot a round ball out of a mid twist gun, you just have to lower your powder charge to change the velocity. Instead of 100 you might find a sweet spot of 75 -80 gr per volume. I have damn near a dozen BP rifles and my bread and butter caplock is a T/C Renegade that is a mid twist gun and I shoot the hell out of it with a 60 gr volume charge of 777. I've always had exits on deer even out to 75 yards or so with a round ball. Are you using a cloth patch for the round ball? Always. Without a patch you will have severely reduced accuracy and the ball will have a hard time staying seated on the powder. I imagine barrel leading would be a serious problem as well. By mid-twist gun, our Okie friend is referring to a gun with a 1:48 inch twist, TC's Hawken and Renegade fit the bill, as do several others. I don't know of any inlines that have that twist rate though. 1:28 is standard for inline guns, and that rifling twist is very fast compared to the preferred roundball twist rate of 1:60-72. I have to take a T/C Black Diamond to do a preliminary sight in for my father in the next few weeks. I'll take an assortment of projectiles and do a test. the new inlines are managed to shoot sabots. I've been told that by an engineer of a major gun manufacturer. I was told that their brand was designed for a 100 gr charge and a sabot round. I imagine shooting a lead pistol bullet would be the closest thing to a RB there is for those twists. |
| Thanks for the insights. I knew that the roundball would need to be shot with a lighter load due to the fast twist rate of my inline. It was a question of plastic sabot or patching. Not sure that I would hunt with such a load in this rifle for deer but for smaller game I might. And it lets me shoot my rifle without spending at least a buck a round for a sabot. |
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Thanks for the insights. I knew that the roundball would need to be shot with a lighter load due to the fast twist rate of my inline. It was a question of plastic sabot or patching. Not sure that I would hunt with such a load in this rifle for deer but for smaller game I might. And it lets me shoot my rifle without spending at least a buck a round for a sabot. I dont believe you can just shoot any sabot with a round ball. there is a specific kindfor RB use, they have been around forever,but went off the market for a while and then came back by a different company i think. I am seriously thnking about ordering a 1:66 barrel for my Renegade to help me shoot a full charge. I think one of the issues regarding my 60-70 gr charge is the fact the barrel on the Renegade is so short. the 1:66 barrel is probably a longer barrel as well. why would you not hunt deer with it? trust me a PRB or a round ball with the Poly Patch is a killer. most haven't gone 30-40 yards. you won't ever find a Ball after the shot either, it will enter and exit. BP season is my favorite hunting season. I normally kill 4-5 deer a year with a BP rifle and have been for 30 years. do not believe the hype that you have to shoot a saboted high dollar pistol round or a expensive Maxi ball to kill a deer. I shoot a sabot/pistol bullet in my inlines, but all my caplocks get RB's. If you are looking for cheap practice and field loads, cheap bulk sabots and bulk lead cast pistol bullets are dirt cheap. I buy sabot by the hundred packs and buy my lead pistol bullets by the 1000. down load your powder choice to 50-60 gr to help save money as well. I do shoot a musket cap on my Renegade instead of a #11. |
| Get yourself a round ball barrel, OKnativeson. My .54 flintlock shoots 110 grains of FFFg into a softball sized group at 100 yards, which is realistically as good as I can do at that distance with open sights. That gun LOVES a big charge. Mine is a Renegade with a Green Mountain replacement barrel, slow twist. |
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Get yourself a round ball barrel, OKnativeson. My .54 flintlock shoots 110 grains of FFFg into a softball sized group at 100 yards, which is realistically as good as I can do at that distance with open sights. That gun LOVES a big charge. Mine is a Renegade with a Green Mountain replacement barrel, slow twist. I know. the odd thing is the fact that with that lowered charge, it is a tack driver. I was looking at possibly even buying a full stock set for the new barrel as well. |
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