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AZ, USA
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Posted: 7/26/2005 12:58:37 PM EDT
[#1]
They returned my forms since I needed to change my address, and my examiner included a note that said to use the exact barrel length. (Never mind that I used about 5 different calibers...) I ended up using 7" for the barrel length and 22.25" for the overall length after reading the suggestions that others gave. The thread is here: http://www.ar15.com/forums/topic.html?b=3&f=14&t=243232 |
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IN, USA
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Posted: 7/28/2005 3:44:55 PM EDT
[#2]
if this has been asked, sorry in advance, just don't have time to read all of it right now. but once i get my approved SBR paper work can i purchase multiple uppers for it as long as they are at least the length that i registered for?
also i have heard that you need an exact lenth on the barrell, mine is a 5" Gem-Tech talon upper, but has anyone been approved with a range of lenth so they can use multiple SBR uppers? |
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Posted: 7/28/2005 9:58:06 PM EDT
[Last Edit: GLOCKshooter]
[#3]
Are multiple calibers still allowed? I'd like to go 9mm and .40
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AZ, USA
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Posted: 7/28/2005 10:04:34 PM EDT
[#4]
I put .223, .308, 9 mm, 7.62 mm, and 6.8 mm on mine just to be safe. I'll be sure to post back if there are any problems. |
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FL, USA
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Posted: 7/30/2005 10:47:39 AM EDT
[#5]
Is the Address:
Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco and Firearms National Firearms Act Branch 650 Massachusetts Ave., NW Room 5303 Washington, DC 20226 OR National Firearms Branch Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco and Firearms and Explosives Washington, DC 20226 The second one is what is on the FORM1 Thanks |
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AZ, USA
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Posted: 7/30/2005 12:03:38 PM EDT
[#6]
I used the first one, without the room number. It got there with no problems.
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MI, USA
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Posted: 7/30/2005 5:34:47 PM EDT
[#7]
I need some help understanding this to clarify it somewhere else.
According to federal law an SBR is considered to be a rifle that is desined to be shoulder fired and has a barrel length of less than 16inches and/ or an overall length of less than 26. Is this correct or no? |
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Posted: 7/30/2005 5:50:47 PM EDT
[#8]
you are correct |
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MI, USA
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Posted: 7/30/2005 6:09:49 PM EDT
[Last Edit: AKM47]
[#9]
My next question is that I have seen some AK's with underfolders for sale and they have 16inch barrels, but their overall length is less than 26inches. So how are these legal to sell with out registering them as a SBR.
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Posted: 7/30/2005 7:59:59 PM EDT
[Last Edit: fq1234]
[#10]
The feds measure OAL with the stock extended. Open, it will be >26 inches. |
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MA, USA
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Posted: 8/1/2005 8:27:40 PM EDT
[Last Edit: TheSaint2004]
[#11]
Do I need to send my Trust forms in along with the SBR form?
Also is the SBR form double sided? or single sided? Much thanks 
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Posted: 8/1/2005 8:41:25 PM EDT
[#12]
The Form 1 is double sided. The front is the information on the weapon and you, the back is your photo and CLEO signoff....... |
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ID, USA
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Posted: 8/17/2005 11:52:18 PM EDT
[#13]
I sent in two form 1's for two separate SBR's. They both took 128 days to return to my home approved.
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Posted: 8/18/2005 7:36:33 AM EDT
[Last Edit: FlyingFive0]
[#14]
Has anyone else heard that at the ATF/NFA new office, everything is going to computerized so if you submit a secondary form it should only take about a month to approve being that you are already in their computer data base? Just wondering as that is what i was told by some board members.
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FL, USA
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Posted: 8/28/2005 2:48:24 AM EDT
[#15]
Does anyone know what the procedure is to remove a SBR from the ATF registry? What I'm looking to do is get a LE6921 lower, but the dealer would need to get it off the registry first as I live in a no SBR state. He doesn't think that it is possible with a factory SBR. Does anyone know differently?
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Posted: 8/28/2005 11:10:43 AM EDT
[#16]
I'd also like to know. |
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Posted: 8/28/2005 11:24:23 AM EDT
[#17]
Unfortunately this does not BTT when a reply is added.
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Posted: 8/29/2005 6:26:30 PM EDT
[#18]
This post is going to show my true lack of understanding, and is only my opinion. I do not like the idea of a computerized list identifing all NFA owners. I didn't think the Govt. was allowed to track gun owners via computerized lists or any lists for that matter, I thought only the FFL's kept recordes? Now I guess the NFA stuff is a little different but i thought Nfa owners were just paying a tax and not being tracked so to speak. Also, I don't think being on there "list" will make a difference, because for individuals, they would still need to do the finger print cards because even though you are on the list, you could have been involved in a crime that prevents NFA ownership between the last time you applied and the new time you applied. Again, this is just my opinion and not based on any fact--but at least i brought it BTT so to speak and maybe someone else will know the correct answer. |
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Posted: 8/29/2005 7:20:28 PM EDT
[Last Edit: MudBug]
[#20]
Great, so now mine will be sent back for both barrel length and caliber. Their seemingly seasonal rulings and interpretations of these laws is looking more and more like harassment all the time. ETA: So now I can't use my lower for both a 9mm and a 5.56 upper? |
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Posted: 8/29/2005 9:23:10 PM EDT
[#21]
The NFA list is alread computerized. I don't have an answer to the original question though. |
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Posted: 8/30/2005 11:02:51 AM EDT
[#22]
Actually if they were able to keep track of finger print records there would be no reason to figerprint a person every time they needed to file a form. They would be kept in a computer database just like AFIS and such.
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OR, USA
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Posted: 9/2/2005 8:29:32 PM EDT
[Last Edit: anoldbaldman]
[#23]
it took 8 months to get my paperwork back. And all they did was mail my original form back with a signature on it. I am the FFL holder, have a CCW and military background and it still took 8 months. What a joke. There are no instructions in the envelope. Nothing stating that I must engrave my receiver, nothing stating that I have to keep the paperwork with me. Whats up with that?
Just read the original post. Since I am also the FFL holder, my SBR has been sitting in our store for 8 months ready to go. I have had to look at it without being able to shoot it. All the local cops want me to call them when I go out. [they want to shoot it] Can't wait. 
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Posted: 9/2/2005 9:20:17 PM EDT
[#24]
That's crazy! Last summer they sent my form back and asked me to list ALL the calibers I plan on using with it. |
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Posted: 9/2/2005 11:31:13 PM EDT
[#25]
I am at 6 months total wait time today. 4 months of it is pending. I was told to talk with my examiner, Rob Howard so they took my numbers and sent him an email, or so they said.I also put a generic barrel and overall length so i may get it sent back. The 2 different people I have talked to sounded as if they were surprised my form 1 hasn't been approved yet because of my pending time.
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Posted: 9/3/2005 3:05:14 PM EDT
[#26]
Does the police agency have the FD-258 there? Or do we need to request these? Also, is there a storage requirement for an SBR? IE: a Safe. Thanks.
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Posted: 9/3/2005 4:17:47 PM EDT
[#27]
Some agencies have them but they won't have the ATF info printed on them. You can write the info in though or you can just order the cards from the ATF website. Your NFA items should be stored locked up. A safe is best. It is important that others (including family members) don't have access to them unless you are present, otherwise it is POSSIBLE that they could get in trouble for illegal possession. |
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Posted: 9/3/2005 6:32:23 PM EDT
[Last Edit: usn_grunt]
[#28]
Thanks fq1234.
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TX, USA
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Posted: 9/5/2005 5:31:05 PM EDT
[#29]
Sure it does. |
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Posted: 9/5/2005 8:12:53 PM EDT
[#30]
Measure with the stock open and the flash hider removed. The flash hider only counts towards the lenght if it is perm. attached. |
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Posted: 9/7/2005 10:00:37 AM EDT
[Last Edit: FlyingFive0]
[#31]
Just talked to Rob Howard. He said my Form 1 was sent back to me to change my measurments from ranges to exact barrel and OAL. This sucks but he said once I get it back it should be approved ASAP.
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OH, USA
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Posted: 9/7/2005 12:27:14 PM EDT
[#32]
Thats what i was told last Monday and my forms would be put in the mail that day for correction. But...... still waiting. No end to the nonsense i suppose. |
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MO, USA
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Posted: 9/10/2005 12:18:47 PM EDT
[Last Edit: boomfab]
[#33]
For the corporation route:
Do I put my name or my corporation's name in the "applicant's name & address" field? |
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Posted: 9/10/2005 7:23:24 PM EDT
[#34]
boomfab, you IM'd me, but you are not accepting return IMs, so I'll post the answers here: 1.) You are not buying/building it, the corporation is -- so you put the corporation's name in the applicant's name and address field. 2.) The Form 1 is an application to make an SBR, and your corporation is the maker. BATF requires that the maker engrave his name and address on anything he makes -- and while Bushmaster manufactured the host gun, your corporation is the maker of the Title II device (i.e., the short-barrelled rifle). So in my opinion yes, you are legally required to put your corporation's name and address on it. HTH! Tony |
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MO, USA
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Posted: 9/10/2005 10:19:50 PM EDT
[#35]
Thanks Tony!
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TX, USA
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Posted: 9/14/2005 8:57:34 PM EDT
[#36]
I haven't seen this yet but was wanting clarification if the citizenship form is necessary when going the Corp Route. I am getting ready to send my paperwork off, having just started my Corp, and wanted to make sure I sent off what is needed so not to have any delays.
2-Form 1s Articles of Organization Anything else? |
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Posted: 9/14/2005 9:11:13 PM EDT
[Last Edit: fq1234]
[#37]
I send a citiz form in with my apps. I use my personnal name since I am the President of my Corp. I don't know that it is necessary to turn in, but I believe it is and it can't hurt to send in more than what is necessary. PS - don't forget the check for the tax stamp |
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TX, USA
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Posted: 9/15/2005 9:52:23 AM EDT
[#38]
thanks
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AZ, USA
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Posted: 9/18/2005 11:57:32 AM EDT
[Last Edit: raising_arizona]
[#39]
FINALLY GOT IT BACK! WOHOO!! hs. I agree with anoldbaldman's post on the previous page: they don't give you any instructions regarding engraving the thing, or keeping the paperwork with it. hank Now, what to get... I was thinking of a Bushy 11.5" upper. Any suggestions? |
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Posted: 9/18/2005 12:51:03 PM EDT
[#40]
I like the 10.5 a bit better, but 11.5 is better if you are going to go with a suppressor later.
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AZ, USA
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Posted: 9/18/2005 1:47:27 PM EDT
[#41]
I hate to bring up this question again, but the whole issue with my application getting sent back, and only allowing one barrel length has made me a bit nervous. Does anyone have a definitive answer: my paperwork says 7" barrel. Is it illegal for me to have an 11.5" barrel on this lower? I guess I could just call my inspector... Again, I apologize for beating a dead horse on this issue. |
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Posted: 9/18/2005 4:22:17 PM EDT
[#42]
Wait a minute. So you are saying that they sent it back to you for fingerprints, you complied and sent it back to them. Then they sent it back to you for barrel length, you made the adjustments and sent it back to them. Then they sent it back to you for multi-calibers, you made the changes and sent it back. The order this happened doesn't matter, but they did this in 3 different processes? This sounds like either inefficiency of the worst kind, or intentional harassment. On either charge if things like this keep happening can't there be some kind charge placed against the ATF for this crap? |
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OH, USA
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Posted: 9/18/2005 5:19:02 PM EDT
[#43]
MudBug
My form 1's for an SBR were just returned to me Friday for correction to barrel and OAL. I have been pending for right around 6 months. I also listed 3 calibers, this was not marked or acknowledged as being a problem on the correction sheet that is sent back with the forms. But i started thinking that after i send it back in, they will probably kick it back because of the mulit-calibers listed. So i went ahead and changed that as well along with the lengths.... i just want the damn thing approved and in my hands. 
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AZ, USA
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Posted: 9/18/2005 6:46:18 PM EDT
[#44]
Mudbug, Yes on all 3 counts. The fingerprint issue was my bad. I used a form that had the Sheriff's office listed on it instead of the ATF. The barrel and caliber issue were sent back as two separate issues. :( |
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Posted: 9/18/2005 7:17:31 PM EDT
[Last Edit: MudBug]
[#45]
No use doing it all at the same time.  Do they do this line by line? OK, he has the wrong fingerprint card, no use checking anything else... SEND IT BACK! OK, It looks like he has the right fingerprint card now, what's next? Oh, he has multiple calibers listed, no use checking anything else... SEND IT BACK! OK, He fixed the miltiple caliber thing, what's next? Ooops, he has a range for barrel length instead instead of a specific length, no use checking anything else... SEND IT BACK! I've said it before in this thread... This all seems criminal to me. It's either incompitence on a criminal level or intentional harrasment. Then take into account how they randomly decide what they will or won't accept. People that were accepted months ago have paperwork that lets them have many calibers and barrel lengths, but no such luck for the rest of us. Now I'll have to send in an application to change calibers or length. I originally planned to build 7" 9mm and 10.5" 5.56 uppers for this, but now it seems I would be breaking the law unless I send in paperwork applying for a change before mounting either upper. Meanwhile, earlier applicants can swap around however they want. Does this seem legal to anybody? |
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AZ, USA
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Posted: 9/18/2005 9:10:44 PM EDT
[#46]
I'm going to give my inspector a call tomorrow. I'll get the story from the horse's mouth. This is nuts.
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AZ, USA
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Posted: 9/19/2005 10:36:16 AM EDT
[#47]
I spoke with my inspector this morning. He said that all applications with multiple barrels and calibres will be sent back to the owner. him
So there we have it. Bummer. |
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Posted: 9/19/2005 11:44:03 AM EDT
[Last Edit: MudBug]
[#48]
So how is this an equal/fair enforcement or the law? The law hasn't been changed in the last 6 months, just the way they want to enforce it. Yet those of use that started this process in the last 6 months suddenly have to wait longer while they send paperwork back over and over again for changes, and in the end we can only have one upper instead of the multiple uppers other people have. Something needs to be fixed here. 
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AZ, USA
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Posted: 9/19/2005 1:27:57 PM EDT
[Last Edit: raising_arizona]
[#49]
It seems to be a silly paperwork game to me. From what I understand, you can still have multiple uppers, you just need to send an added note after you get your stamped form back stating that you are making changes to the configuration. They just tack it on to the application noting the changes.
Maybe the post office is in on this. More stamp revenue... |
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Posted: 9/19/2005 1:46:00 PM EDT
[Last Edit: MudBug]
[#50]
But then you have to have that configuration. You build one in 9mm with a 7" barrel Then send in the paperwork that you are changing it to a 10.5" 5.56 Now it's a 10.5" 5.56, if you want to use the 7" 9mm upper you have to send in the paperwork again to change it back. At least that's my understanding. So basically, you can't just switch as you want to. Now would having it listed as a 10.5" 5.56, but also having the 7" 9mm in the house constitute a crime? |
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I told him that I put 7" on my application, but wanted to also use 11.5" and 14.5" in the future. He told me to send a letter back with the model and serial number, stating that there may be a configuration change, and that the rifle could have an 11.5" or 14.5" barrel.