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Posted: 5/13/2015 12:41:39 PM EDT
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I'm in the beginning stages of building my first SBR. I just submitted my Form 1 earlier this week on a DD lower I have, but have some questions on barrel and rail. I plan on running a Noveske 10.5, but wanted some suggestions on rails. I currently have a 14.5 Noveske with a URX, but wanted something a little different. My questions:
What is the longest rail I can put on that will still leave room for my AAC 5.56 SD? Do I need to run an adjustable gas block? I understand the advantage, but would like to hear from those that don't and the success they have or reasons why they want to run one. Being my first, any recommendations or do's/don't from current SBR owners that a newbie should know? Appreciate any help and advise!!! |
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You can run a rail up to and past the muzzle and still use your QD suppressor in some instances. Seekins BAR and MCSR rails are 1.8" inside for this reason. I to have a pending sbr and am planning a 9" rail on a 8.5" barrel. Give that "intergally supressed look". So you could run a longer rail if you'd like, takes some planning.
I know the general length is 9" rail on a 10.5" gun. But you said something different :D Good luck with the build! |
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a 9.5" rail is the longest that will work. (I have a 10.5" barrel with a 9.5" rail and a AAC 51t mount for a M4-2000, it fits with a few a tiny bit to spare)
you don't need an adjustable gas block but It's nice to have for suppressed shooting. I use Govnah and am very happy with it. |
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Quoted:
That may just be the rail I was looking for and appreciate the heads up!! Does anyone have pics of SLR Solo 9.7 with an AAC silencer attached? I would like to get an idea of how the setup looks. Go seekins dude, their rails are superior. Lightweight as hell, keymod, integral QD swing holes. Barrel nut works with a standard GI wrench. 
Here is mine. 
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Quoted:
That may just be the rail I was looking for and appreciate the heads up!! Does anyone have pics of SLR Solo 9.7 with an AAC silencer attached? I would like to get an idea of how the setup looks. They have pictures in the new product section in the last few pages of their handguard thread. |
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Alright guys, thank you for all the suggestions so far. Here are my initial plans and would like feedback on why it will or won't work for any reason.
10.5 Noveske barrel Seekins 9.5 or SLR 9.7 rail Syrac or SLR adjustable gas block (I will be running a silencer) The only real question I have is if I'll be able to actually adjust the gas with a carbine length gas system as each of these are adjusted from the front of the block? Sorry for the questions, but I just want to make sure I get this build right vs. ordering a bunch of parts that won't work or fit. Appreciate the help!! |
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Quoted:
Alright guys, thank you for all the suggestions so far. Here are my initial plans and would like feedback on why it will or won't work for any reason. 10.5 Noveske barrel Seekins 9.5 or SLR 9.7 rail Syrac or SLR adjustable gas block (I will be running a silencer) The only real question I have is if I'll be able to actually adjust the gas with a carbine length gas system as each of these are adjusted from the front of the block? Sorry for the questions, but I just want to make sure I get this build right vs. ordering a bunch of parts that won't work or fit. Appreciate the help!! You shouldn't have a problem with these parts. As far as the adjustment goes I have an slr gb on a 10" and 9.5" rail and can adjust from the end. The 10" is a slr and you can actually adjust it through the rail or from the end. They designed the rail to allow you to do this. |
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I would highly recommend a Geissele rail if you can find one. This is an LMT 10.5 with a Geissele 9.5 Mk2: <a href="http://imgur.com/DKbwB5Y" target="_blank">http://i.imgur.com/DKbwB5Y.jpg</a> You should post a pic of this gun before paint. Even I miss it, and I've never even touched it. 
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Quoted:
I would highly recommend a Geissele rail if you can find one. This is an LMT 10.5 with a Geissele 9.5 Mk2: <a href="http://imgur.com/DKbwB5Y" target="_blank">http://i.imgur.com/DKbwB5Y.jpg</a> Wanted that rail myself or one of their other models in 9.5". They said on their forum they don't plan on making any just 10". So good luck finding one I looked for months. |
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Quoted:
Quoted:
That may just be the rail I was looking for and appreciate the heads up!! Does anyone have pics of SLR Solo 9.7 with an AAC silencer attached? I would like to get an idea of how the setup looks. Go seekins dude, their rails are superior. Lightweight as hell, keymod, integral QD swing holes. Barrel nut works with a standard GI wrench. Slr is lightweight offers keymod has qd sling mounts barrel nut works with an open box wrench. Slr also looks better, and has a slimmer profile that is more comfortable So "superior" may be a little strong |
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Quoted:
Quoted:
I would highly recommend a Geissele rail if you can find one. This is an LMT 10.5 with a Geissele 9.5 Mk2: <a href="http://imgur.com/DKbwB5Y" target="_blank">http://i.imgur.com/DKbwB5Y.jpg</a> You should post a pic of this gun before paint. Even I miss it, and I've never even touched it. You mean the 50 shades of FDE version?
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Quoted:
Quoted:
I would highly recommend a Geissele rail if you can find one. This is an LMT 10.5 with a Geissele 9.5 Mk2: <a href="http://imgur.com/DKbwB5Y" target="_blank">http://i.imgur.com/DKbwB5Y.jpg</a> Wanted that rail myself or one of their other models in 9.5". They said on their forum they don't plan on making any just 10". So good luck finding one I looked for months. That's disappointing. 
They seem to change their minds frequently on which rails to produce. I did hear that they are bringing the Mk1 back though. |
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Quoted: Alright guys, thank you for all the suggestions so far. Here are my initial plans and would like feedback on why it will or won't work for any reason. 10.5 Noveske barrel Seekins 9.5 or SLR 9.7 rail Syrac or SLR adjustable gas block (I will be running a silencer) The only real question I have is if I'll be able to actually adjust the gas with a carbine length gas system as each of these are adjusted from the front of the block? Sorry for the questions, but I just want to make sure I get this build right vs. ordering a bunch of parts that won't work or fit. Appreciate the help!! You also know what setting the gas block is in by visually looking at it or in complete darkness by feel. Regarding using an adjustable at all, this thread may be useful to you:http://www.ar15.com/forums/t_6_51/434141_Any_kind_of_tuning_needed_for_reliable_SBR_.html |
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Forgive the ignorance, but can you give me some insight why Govnah vs. Syrac or Sentry? I'm new to AGB's and have no idea what makes one better than the other. Syrac and SLR sentry gas block as essentially the same...use a Allen key to adjust and you have 15 or so settings. The govnah has a plate (2 or 3 position) that is drilled to different sizes to control the gas. Normally a 3 position would be drilled for suppressed setting, unsuppressed setting and adverse setting. It can be adjusted by a bullet tip just pressing the regulator plate. |
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Quoted: Forgive the ignorance, but can you give me some insight why Govnah vs. Syrac or Sentry? I'm new to AGB's and have no idea what makes one better than the other. That said, they all work by pinching the gas off by advancing or backing out a screw. It is like using a dial to tune in to your radio station. Except you also need an allen wrench to turn the dial and remember which direction to go and how many revolutions. You also have no idea what setting it is by looking at it or by feel. They have like 14 or so different positions while other set screw blocks there is no detent so basically infinite. The Govnah is like have 2 or 3 pre set positions that we do for you or you can do your own for your own 'favorite channels'. The Govnah is a different animal. We have another design that has 14 settings but frankly are not interested in that market. Our design is modular and is two or 3 positions. We have SWAT teams using our product and rifles sometimes get passed on to different officers. They know in complete darkness what the setting is by feel or looking at it. This may be an issue if you have the rifle in storage for a while and forgot how it was last adjusted. Or you are about to enter a building and not sure. Taking a test shot in the dirt before entering is not an option. The Govnah design is based on actual port sizes not by pinching the gas off with the tip of a set screw. Imagine a blowtorch hitting the tip of a needle, it is going to erode. See picture below of what an eroded gas port looks like. The tip of the restricting screw will start to erode at a 45 degree angle just like the barrel does in the picture below. Guess what happens when your rotate the tip of that screw say 1/4, or 1/2 turn...you are now blocking off a lot more gas than expected. The Govnah design is based on actual port sizes so you know exactly how big your port will be. Being port based also means that erosion has to take place over the circumference of a circle as well as the thickness of the regulator plate. We have not worn one out with heavy full auto fire either. Port size validation can easily be verified by removing the regulator plate and sticking the shank of the largest bit into the port...all without removing the gas block. Below is a video of some of the torture testing we have done without wearing out a regulator plate:  You can see how quickly gas can be adjusted with a 556 round in the video below: Good luck with your build however you decide and let me know if you have any questions. Thanks! |
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Suppressors Under Rails get hot Quick. Rimfire and Pistol you can get away with but a Rifle you will need gloves. I would go with an Adjustable gas block as it will help if by change you are over gassed. Also look at the ALG rails. They are not huge, you wont be able to fit a 1.5"OD suppressor under them but see my first sentence...
MAHA |
| I have looked all over the place, but haven't found the one that I want. It seems you have to be on the right site and the right time to get one. That was my first pick when I started up ideas of what I wanted. Now that I know about the SLR it kind of has me. I'll keep checking around tho.. |
| Oh no, I would never run the "integral suppressor" look as I've read about the heat and that doesn't seem like fun or safe for that matter. My main goal was to run it as close the rail as possible without allowing heat to transfer as much to the rail. I'll give ALG a look as well. |
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Really appreciate the write-up. I do have several questions because there were a couple of points that confused me a bit:
- The barrel I'm getting has a .750 pinned gas block (Noveske 10.5) already attached. How easy is it to swap out the gas block? How does the Govnah attached to the barrel? Pinned? - I shoot the best ammo I can find, but will sometimes shoot XM855 or 193. Of the two that work with a 10.5, which one should I go with while running an AAC 5.56 SD? - It seems I may have my mind set on the SLR 9.7 Solo Mid http://slrrifleworks.com/index.php?route=product/product& path=66_106_122&product_id=486 and wanted to know if I'll have any issues whatsoever with clearance or access to the GB for tuning. - Both options are showing "out of stock". Do you know when you will have them back in? - You mentioned the following "The Govnah is like have 2 or 3 pre set positions that we do for you or you can do your own for your own 'favorite channels'.". Do you customize for each customer or will either of the two options work just fine? - Is the GB a plug-n-play? Or, is there any modification I need to do? I guess I'm a little confused with understanding the size of the gas port and which regulator plate I will need. Sorry for all the questions, but I want to make sure I get this right the first time. |
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Quoted: Really appreciate the write-up. I do have several questions because there were a couple of points that confused me a bit: - The barrel I'm getting has a .750 pinned gas block (Noveske 10.5) already attached. How easy is it to swap out the gas block? How does the Govnah attached to the barrel? Pinned? - I shoot the best ammo I can find, but will sometimes shoot XM855 or 193. Of the two that work with a 10.5, which one should I go with while running an AAC 5.56 SD? - It seems I may have my mind set on the SLR 9.7 Solo Mid http://slrrifleworks.com/index.php?route=product/product& path=66_106_122&product_id=486 and wanted to know if I'll have any issues whatsoever with clearance or access to the GB for tuning. - Both options are showing "out of stock". Do you know when you will have them back in? - You mentioned the following "The Govnah is like have 2 or 3 pre set positions that we do for you or you can do your own for your own 'favorite channels'.". Do you customize for each customer or will either of the two options work just fine? - Is the GB a plug-n-play? Or, is there any modification I need to do? I guess I'm a little confused with understanding the size of the gas port and which regulator plate I will need. Sorry for all the questions, but I want to make sure I get this right the first time. The Govnah attaches via three set screws at the bottom. We don't pin it but some customers pin it themselves or send to Adco to do. Below is a picture of one that a customer sent to Adco to do. The Govnah has several features patented and one of them is the alignment hole in the top of the gas block so there is no guesswork knowing the block is perfectly aligned to the gas port in the barrel. The port in his barrel is .078 and by showing that the shank of the .078 drill bit is going through the top of the Govnah, it is going through a .078 port in the regulator plate and then into the barrels .078 gas port, then the set screws are tightened and in this case he had it pinned and looks like Adco did a great job to maintain alignment.  2. We test with a milspec lower configuration which is an H2 buffer and full auto lower. Use a 'milspec' version regulator plate if you are also using milspec ammo. Use the 'extra gas version' if using weaker stuff. If you are a somewhat handy person, get the milspec version and a numbered (NOT fractional) bit set and work your way up from the smallest port for the optimal port sizes for YOUR build. If you don't want to tinker at all just get the 2 position extra gas version as I'm sure that will work for your configuration unless you are using some super heavy buffer or something. 3. Got customer pics of some rails here:http://micromoa.com/pics/ Below is a pic of a customer pic of an SLR w/ our Govnah installed: SLR - shown below is used with a 3 position. Customer said he did have to grind on the corners of regulator plate to avoid contact with the rail. 2 position requires no mods.  4. We should be done with our machining operations this week. Then they go out to a wire EDM shop that is about a week turnaround then to the Black Oxiders which is another week. 5. Use what I mentioned in #2 above or go small and tweak if you are that kind of person. Many customers want to tweak themselves and notice that all of our pre-determined port sizes are for 5.56 only. While many customers use the Govnah on .308, 7.62x39, 6.5,6.8, 5.45x39 etc... We put this page on the site to better address that question: http://micromoa.com/which-govnah-should-i-use/ 6. If you are NOT the tinkering type of person use what I mentioned in #2. That would be 'plug-n-play'. Which is the 2 position with a .052 suppressed and .073 unsuppressed...... Note however, that I've inspected a few Noveske 10.5" barrels and they were ported like the commercial DD MK18 10.3" barrel which is quite large at .081~.082. Note that the military specs out .070" for the MK18 since those barrels will never run Tula or non-standard buffers, etc... I personally would go for a 3 position to be able to utilize the large port in the barrel for adverse mode. This is what our MK18 Govnah offerings were intended to be used for. The Extra gas version is .073/.052/.082 while the 'mil spec' version is .070/.049.082. But if you were to go that route you would have to modify the corners of the regulator plate to work with the SLR rail like the customer above or go with a different rail option. Thanks! |
| Thanks again for the all the helpful info. I am a little worried as I would like to go with the 3 position, but really need to find a gunsmith that I can trust here in SATX and preferably one that has experience with the Govnah. I'll look around and talk to a couple here and get their thoughts on installation. I'll also check back on the site and order when you have them in stock. |
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Quoted: Thanks again for the all the helpful info. I am a little worried as I would like to go with the 3 position, but really need to find a gunsmith that I can trust here in SATX and preferably one that has experience with the Govnah. I'll look around and talk to a couple here and get their thoughts on installation. I'll also check back on the site and order when you have them in stock. Thanks! Robert |
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