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Posted: 4/24/2008 1:53:08 PM EDT
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i just heard of this rifle called the SIG 552 it' supposed to be the finest 5.56 rifle ever made. is this true and do you have any pics of it |
| It's just a very compact version of the SIG550. It is well made with quality parts, but at last count there are about a dozen firearms that hold the title of the finest 5.56 rifle ever made. I would really like to have one, but I will let people who have actually used them decide how good they are. |
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Not at all the finest 5.56 ever made. It's nice though. But it has it's issues. No drop free mags, right side charging, and op rods that can break under heavy use are just a few of it's shortcomings. The sig 556 is available to us here, which is a slight variation from it. Look into it, a lot of people who own them like them. |
the guys that make the semi-auto PKM's, marcolmar or something... those guys are building 552's on 556 recievers. they look VERY nice, but they are expensive. |
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Yes, the 55? series is the finest assault rifle ever made as far as quality of manufacture, materials, accuracy, relaibility and all the other things that matter. The 'negative' issues are all opinion based on specific training such as the method of changing mags. The reason more armies haven't adopted then is simply due to cost - at dealer prices I can buy two HKs, three M16s or 12 AKs for the same money. For that reason you will usually see SIGs in the hands of LE agencies who spend more-per-man than any military organisation will (except maybe countries in the Middle-East). |
for sale on sturm |
Correct. Dave at MarColMar Firearms is offering 551 and 552 SBRs based off converted 556 rifles and using factory Swiss lowers and bolt groups/gas systems. They are spendy, but in my opinion absolutely worth the expense. Where else have you ever seen a civilian transferable 551 or 552 SBR? |
A Sig 551 is not better than an M4. It is not ergonomically superior and has no significant advantages. That said I spent some time with a 552 a while back and I have no doubt it is the best AK ever fielded. |
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The 552 is an excellent rifle, which is why it is used by militaries/LE agencies the world over. Currently, the 552 variants are the most popular Sig 55x series in military/LE service. In the US, the 552 is used by many local/state LE agencies and the federal government. It is also in use with US SOCOM, though in limited numbers and primarily as a short-barred suppressed CQB type weapon. For its size, its exceedingly reliable/accurate. It has had some issues with gas system durability, which have been incrementaly solved. An improved model, called the 553, uses a slightly different set of operating components which are supposed to increase reliability/durability/ especially when using a suppressor. Its not fair to compare a Sig 552 with a Colt M4 carbine. The Sig 552 is more of a sub machine gun, or rather "sub-carbine" as opposed to the M4, which is closer to a rifle. IMO, the M4*and all AR carbines* are ergonomically superior and much more modular. The M4 is also a more useful "general purpose" rifle, whereas the Sig 552 is much smaller and thus much more specialized. For room to room or CQB operations, the Sig 552 or similar, is the prefered weapon. The debate between which is more reliable, M16/M4's or rilfes like the Sig 551/552/556 or HK 416 is still on going. Which is better and why is beside the scope of this reply, however. What is germaine is sub-carbine reliability, which the Sig 552 has a decided advantage over sub-carbine M4/M16 variants. M16 direct gas impingement can be argued much more effectively in 20/16/14.5 inch weapons, however 11.5 inch and shorter weapons have been notoriously problematic ever since the 60's. Reliability is further deteriorated when using a suppressor. Its this lack of satisfactory reliability with the current Mk18 CQBR that led to the initial procurement of both HKG36C's and Sig 552's. All in all, the Sig 552 and now the 553 are excellent "sub carbines". They are exceedingly reliable/durable and are deservedly in widespread use by some of the finest military/goverment agencies the world over. Its not fair to say that the Sig 552 is the "best", however it is certainly among the front runners. Similar rifles which are also in use by 1st world special forces would be the HK 53, G36C and 416. While I am a fan of the 552 and have used it on several occasions, I would have to say I prefer the HK416. It has the increased reliability with short barrels because of its improved operating system and has all the modularity/ergonomics/compatibility of a standard M4 carbine. As great as the 552 is/was, its an older generation of weapon. The Sig 540/550/551/552 comes from the 70's when Western gun designers were copying the AK47 and then modifying/reporducing it with 1st world techniques. The FN FNC, IMI Galil and Sig 55x series are all expamples of this. The 416 is a newer design which is not an AK variant. The Sig 552 is an excellent rifle, but it is being replaced by the HK416/417 and FN SCAR in US military service. While the most elite of elite American soldiers like CAG-D* AKA delta force*, SEAL teams including DEVGRU and the Army's AWG might have access 552's or have them in armories, their piston rifles are mostly HK416's and FN SCARs. In so many words, the 552 is an excellent/dependible sub-carbine, but its yesterdays news. Its is still fairly well represented, but other alternatives are giving it a serious run for the money and thus its not fair to say the 552 is the "best". |
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Ryno - an accurate and enlightening post. My comments referred generally to the entire 55? series, I should have expanded it a bit to say that I personally believe the 552 configuration is the least-useful due to the impractical concept of a 5.56mm subgun. Besides being an international SIG dealer I have also been an HK dealer for many years and we had the same problems with the HK53 - the HK33K was a far superior weapon and much more general-purpose. Added to that is the fact that the recoil system was changed from standard 55? in the 552 to make it compact and there were problems - as you say those have been solved by the 553 going back to the original system. With regards to your comments about the HK416 and SCAR, the only reason the 416 was fielded was due to the fcat that the US is so committed to the the M16 that HK marketers felt sales would be easier with an m4-esque model. The operational system has been used in many HK rifles before. The main advantage to the SCAR is its similarity to the M4 to the operator with the added reliability of the gas piston and modularity. Neither gun is better built, more accurate or more reliable than a 550 or 551. In addition, the Swiss are not very receptive to customers' wants - suggestions on changing controls to suite a specific 'manual-of-arms' will largely fall on deaf ears. With regard to the comment about the 55? series being no better than the M4, surely even the most die-hard M16 fans still don't believe that shit. I've been selling them all for years and the only gun I'm nervous about demonstrating is a damned M4 or Commando, the last batch from Colt looked like they were machined in highschool shop class. The fact that people even still want them is beyond me. Tell me one other gun in the history of guns where ammunition specification has been chaged eight times (or even twice) to get the platform to work. |
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I certainly didn't mean to disuede anyone from purchasing a 552, should they be allowed to legally aquire one. I just wanted to give a broad impression of the weapon and my opinons about it to help someone unfamiliar with it understand it a little more. The 552 is an excellent weapon, for its intended purpose, and provided you aren't going to be shooting 600 meter matches or using it for a SAW, it will be a superior weapon. I in no way ment to infer that the M4 or DI is superior to the 55x or gas piston rifles in terms of relaibility. I just ment to say that for a general issue rifle that the M4 might be a better choice than the 552, given its size and other features. A sub carbine is too specialized for general issue IMO. Science has proven the superiority of gas piston operation since the 1960's when the military asked Colt to explore possible piston M16 variants. Since that time, every major military arms manufacture or indigenous 5.56 military rifle has neglected to use DI. Were it superior, or at the very least roughly equal, it certainly would have been incorperated in subsequent designs. Even Jim Sullivan, one of the AR15's prominent designers, bemoans the rifle/system and is upset that it is still in service. Jim Sullivan didn't only help design the AR15/M16, but he had a hand in numerous other military/commercial small arms. He is a much more prolific/important designer than Eugene Stoner IMO. The fact that the DoD and US SOCOM has aquired both Sig 552's and HKG36's for use as suppressed sub carbines and insisted upon the development of the SCAR proves they aren't satisfied with the M4. The surface warfare lab at Crane went so far as to call the M4 a "defective and flawed weapon". I totally believe in gas-pistion superiority, I just neglected to metnion that so this thread didn't turn into another M4 vs HK416 battlefield. With the amount of M16 variants in service, I think a conversion like the 416 or those being devloped by Colt represent the best solution. Other than its operating system, the M16 has alot going for it. Its ergonomically excellent and very modular, not to mention we have millions of supporting parts/accessories. Testing has already proven that the HK416 and even proprietary Colt piston conversions stay cooler, are less lube intensive and have a higher MRBF than standard DI guns. Some people refuse to deny the propaganda. You can't blame them though, as Americans are fed more propaganda than people living under the Nazi regime and Stalinistic Russia combined. Watch Fox news for 30 minutes and you will understand why some of us don't know which way is up anymore... I left out the HK33K because the OP mentioned the Sig 552, so I limited my scope to sub carbines. While I like the HK53, the HK33k would be my first choice. Not only is it awesome looking, but it has a longer sight radius, is more controllable and has a higher degree of parts commonality. I left it out because to me, the HK33k is more of a Sig 551 than a 552. Splitting heirs I know, but I was trying to be as accurate as possible. If you have your choice, I would reccomend buying the 553-1 as it has benefited from the issues encountered with the 552. That being said, a non select fire/suppressed 552 will work/last for a long time, I suspect. A 551 might be an even better choice, as its still compact and doesn't require a unique operating system/parts. US troops in WW2 were fighting in built up areas with M1 Garands. Marines in Hue were using M16A1s and M14's to go "house to house". Soldiers in Iraq are using M16A4's and M4's, both of which are longer than 552's. American SWAT teams and LE officials move room to room with 16 inch commercial M4's all the time. IMO, a 16 inch AR carbine is compact enough for effective CQB use. A 551 is a better choice for general use than the 552 IMO. |
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Thanks for the reply, I was debating whether to purchase the 551 vs the 552 and when this thread came about it blew open the decision to include the G36K/C and the FN SCAR. I was favoring the SIGs due to the fact I was trained on these manual at arms, and being a lefty the design is better for me than a right handed user, and all the rifles mentioned above have the controls (at least by option) in the same place. I guess the decision comes down to barrel length and the availability of parts in the end. By the way this will be my only 5.56 rifle as I don't follow the ARFcom tradition of getting them all due to the laws here in Malta. If anyone would like to mention all the shortcomings of these rifles be my guest. |
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RF, I'll make a suggestion based only on my personal experience and your specific posts. The Galil and HK33K are aged; when they were built there was no consideration for optics and other modern accessories that have become so prolific over the past few years. There is no arguing that they help the shooter so must be considered. For that reason only I'd say the SIG 551 is your best option, especially the model with the picatinny rail and back-up flip sight. IF you plan to use a suppressor the 551 is not such a good idea. The flash-hider is integral to the barrel and not suitable for QD mounting and is not NATO standard. Most QD suppressors in Europe will fit the NATO standard hider (21mm). The best option then would be to buy a 551LB and have the barrel shortened to 551 length and threaded for a NATO standard flash hider. These rifles leave the factory with a 3-stage match trigger and 1MOA accuracy guarantee, you cannot do better. For civilian use a HB AR15 is reliable enough and quite accurate. It is also modular so you can 'improve' it as you go. The HK G36 was HK's effort to build a competitively priced gun for military/LE sales. The triggers are crap and the sighting arragement bad but they are very reliable. It is very difficult to get a good trigger on one. |
Yep, i infact own a 556. that being said, yes , the bolt seems like it however, everything else about it is its own beast. |
| I got the chance to try one out and it is a very nice weapon. I wish i could get one for personal use. Here's a vid of me shooting one: Shooting the Sig rifle |
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