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Posted: 6/25/2009 9:32:49 AM EDT
| Anyone have it? I saw a pic of the cover and there's an article about AUG handling. |
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I actually look forward to reading that.
Seriously. I think it's an area that has been ignored in terms of firearms instruction and with the growing amount of bullpup owners out there along with the possibility for even more with the STG-556E4 and "cross your finger" the IWI Tavor we'll see even more Americans armed with bullpup rifles. I'd like to see one of the more popular schools offer a bullpup course. |
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I am seriously looking at the MSAR STG 556 e4 BUT the biggest complaint I hear from traditional instructors and students of the bullpup is the lack of ability to be ambidexterous in the middle of a string.
It would be nice to see a block of instruction, but, many consider the current bullpups a step backwards in ergonomics and handling characteristics. I am still probably going to get one though... 
-Will |
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I am seriously looking at the MSAR STG 556 e4 BUT the biggest complaint I hear from traditional instructors and students of the bullpup is the lack of ability to be ambidexterous in the middle of a string. It would be nice to see a block of instruction, but, many consider the current bullpups a step backwards in ergonomics and handling characteristics. I am still probably going to get one though...
-Will WTF?! 'Backwards'?! Bullpups are a step forward any way you look at it; shorter overall length without sacrificing barrel length/muzzle velocity. Whoever says this should be sterilized, and I am unanimous in this!  
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... BUT the biggest complaint I hear from traditional instructors and students of the bullpup is the lack of ability to be ambidexterous in the middle of a string. WTF?! 'Backwards'?! Bullpups are a step forward any way you look at it; shorter overall length without sacrificing barrel length/muzzle velocity. Whoever says this should be sterilized, and I am unanimous in this! Show how do you transition from, say, shooting right side barrier to left side of barrier when the ejection port is on the right? I'm not diss'ing anything, but I just realized that with a bullpup's port is so far reward, wouldn't the ejected brass be right in your face/body? Or is there a simple technique that addresses this? |
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... BUT the biggest complaint I hear from traditional instructors and students of the bullpup is the lack of ability to be ambidexterous in the middle of a string. WTF?! 'Backwards'?! Bullpups are a step forward any way you look at it; shorter overall length without sacrificing barrel length/muzzle velocity. Whoever says this should be sterilized, and I am unanimous in this! Show how do you transition from, say, shooting right side barrier to left side of barrier when the ejection port is on the right? I'm not diss'ing anything, but I just realized that with a bullpup's port is so far reward, wouldn't the ejected brass be right in your face/body? Or is there a simple technique that addresses this? An invention such as a clip on/glue on brass deflector also, switching from main hand to weak hand isn't something easily done in full kit |
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... BUT the biggest complaint I hear from traditional instructors and students of the bullpup is the lack of ability to be ambidexterous in the middle of a string. WTF?! 'Backwards'?! Bullpups are a step forward any way you look at it; shorter overall length without sacrificing barrel length/muzzle velocity. Whoever says this should be sterilized, and I am unanimous in this! Show how do you transition from, say, shooting right side barrier to left side of barrier when the ejection port is on the right? I'm not diss'ing anything, but I just realized that with a bullpup's port is so far reward, wouldn't the ejected brass be right in your face/body? Or is there a simple technique that addresses this? Simple technique: Just hold your off-hand between the ejection port and your face. It's quick and easy, and you don't loose much accuracy with the mid-grip of the bullpup keeping the balance point forward. You can even pinch around the top of your stock with your thumb and fore-finger of your off-hand for added support. |
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So sick of the support side complaints. It's not that hard to do. The Aussies have been doing it for years.
There are a number of techniques for weak side shooting if you've got to do it. There are a lot of instructors that simply don't understand bullpups and don't care to. They've been on the AR platform so long that's what they know and that's what they teach. Anyone who says bullpups are a "step backwards" hasn't been paying attention to the "real world" outside their open range. The IDF adopted the Tavor as their primary service rifle for a good damn reason. The bullpup offers superior handeling and lethality in urban warfare, which is the future of all conflicts. Even the U.S. Army is adopting the XM25. The bullpup beats the hell out of any standard configuration long arm in CQB or MOUT operations. However, unlike SBR rifles that give up velocity and hence lethality at distance for short OAL in urban conflicts the bullpup maintains a short OAL while still having a long enough barrel to engage targets at distance in rural areas (like Afghanistan). |
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So sick of the support side complaints. It's not that hard to do. The Aussies have been doing it for years. There are a number of techniques for weak side shooting if you've got to do it. +1 Many shooters will have more of a problem with coordination than technique. I've seen a lot of shooters who just don't practice with their off-side, and look like a bunch of monkeys trying to fuck a football when they have to transition. These folks have more problems than worrying about brass in the face. |
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So sick of the support side complaints. It's not that hard to do. The Aussies have been doing it for years. There are a number of techniques for weak side shooting if you've got to do it. I've seen a lot of shooters who just don't practice with their off-side, and look like a bunch of monkeys trying to fuck a football when they have to transition. Just so there's no confusion, when I fuck a football it looks professional. 
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... BUT the biggest complaint I hear from traditional instructors and students of the bullpup is the lack of ability to be ambidexterous in the middle of a string. WTF?! 'Backwards'?! Bullpups are a step forward any way you look at it; shorter overall length without sacrificing barrel length/muzzle velocity. Whoever says this should be sterilized, and I am unanimous in this! Show how do you transition from, say, shooting right side barrier to left side of barrier when the ejection port is on the right? I'm not diss'ing anything, but I just realized that with a bullpup's port is so far reward, wouldn't the ejected brass be right in your face/body? Or is there a simple technique that addresses this? Just got my copy. I have a subscription (But of course! Could I be Swat Dude without a subscription to SWAT Magazine???). The article addresses lefty shooting and all it says is CLOSE YOUR MOUTH so you don't eat hot brass. Other high points: When reloading, go for your mag first and use the back of the mag to engage the mag release, dropping the mag free before inserting a fresh one. The aritcle states the 42 round mags would NOT drop free. In keeping with the left had shooting thing, the article states the AUG can be fired srong hand only like a pistol if necessary.I haven't tried it but I will next time I'm at the range.
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Just got my copy. I have a subscription (But of course! Could I be Swat Dude without a subscription to SWAT Magazine???). The article addresses lefty shooting and all it says is CLOSE YOUR MOUTH so you don't eat hot brass. LOL, close your mouth –– works for flies too. I wear prescription glasses, I don't see this left side, bullpup shooting thing working too well for me. $450 on glasses to get hot brass peened off them every left handed shot? Don't think so. Maybe someone here can find a video of someone shooting left handed and post the link... I'll try google and see what pops up, but one of you guys with a bullpup could be immortalized if you videoed your next range visit, just sayin'. |
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This video links has literally been posted about 10 times now.
In the video below you can witness with your own two eyes at about 50 second into it an Australian soldier shoot a right ejection config F88 (aka AUG) using his left side or "support side." ADF Video-Support Side Shooting As you can see that is one example of a support side shooting. You can cant the rifle to eject the rounds down as well keeping it more on the shoulder. The STG-556, the AUG A3, and the AXR all have rails that will accept laser aiming devices so use of the optic for a support side shoot is no longer necessary. Since you only shoot support side once you have reached a stationary set-up behind an object you have the time to properly orient the rifle to support side shoot effectively and comfortably. Not that hard to do. People have been doing it for decades and now the use of lasers makes it not just point shooting, but accurate fire on targets at typical engagement distances. It does not "suck" it is very easy to do. It will get hard if you're trying to make shots at distance using the support side, but nobody with any rifle should be trying to place shots on targets at distance with their support side. |
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SilentType, thanks for posting and giving the time into the clip. I would have missed it otherwise.
Here's my thoughts (not that you asked): * As you said, doesn't work for distance. But anytime you shoot left of anything, like a building, you can't shoot for distance without exposing yourself. * Lasers would be calibrated for POI when the rifle is vertical, making them less than useful at distance around a corner. Maybe a reflex sight at the 2 o'clock position and zeroed for that orientation? I assume the augs have this. * To work well here, it looks like the bullpup should be front ejecting, vis a vi RFB and FNS2000. * Don't see AUG style guns working well for 3-gun. But again, I couldn't find anything on google about this so thanks very much for your effort. Oh, and I may be wrong here, but I detected a note of annoyance in your post in that it was previously posted some 10 times, but please remember that searching on AR15 is limited to 30 days for us non-paying members –– not that I'm complaining. 
Again, thanks for the effort. |
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Every Laser Aiming Device I've used is adjustable. POI doesn't have to be standard POI when you've got optics already. You can also use more than one laser mounted now with the combo lasers like the TLR2 as well as various laser mounts now not to mention the additional space you've got with the STG 556 E4 or the top rail space on the AUG A3.
I'll take a side ejection or downward ejection over front ejection. Easier to clear malfunctions and easier to perform a chamber check. Plus, the FS2000 doesn't have a LRBHO and to me that's a nice option to have that outweights weakside/supportside shooting. You can pie corners you can simply seek a more concealed firing position. You can use the Aussie method above, you can cant the rifle, and you can simply shoot one handed with your support hand cupped to deflect the brass if need be. Just all about knowing your rifle and knowing how to use it to maximum effect. Weakside/supportside does me no good unless I have real "cover" and not just concealment anyways better to have improved accuracy than supportside shoot behind typical residential building materials. Transitions take time. Transition don't work well with 2 point or 3 point slings and gear. Plenty of nations fighting in combat every week that are using side ejection bullpups and doing very well. |
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