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Posted: 3/13/2011 11:45:04 PM EDT
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I'm curious about the latest news on the future availability of the Saiga 12 here in the states. I've got a couple of converted Saigas that I recently listed on a couple of the freebie online guns classifieds, for what I considered to be quite high prices (no way I would pay it, anyway). I just wanted to get a feel for the market on them. One is a "basic" conversion with Tapco plastic stock, pistol grip, Tromix FGC and trigger guard, etc. The other has a folding Ace stock (internal trunion block) and an MD Arms drum. I'm surprised at the amount of interest I have on them. Given those levels of interest ("Tell me when to meet, and I'll bring cash!"), I'm considering selling them. I can certainly turn a profit on these, and rebuild for less. The "rebuild" plan, however, is based on the assumption that the S12 will continue to be available stateside, for a "reasonable" sum of money. Let's say, sub $600. Anyone have any information related to the future availability of the S12? If it looks like they'll become rarer than hen's teeth, I think I'll just keep mine locked away. |
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SUb $600 isn't going to happen. But...ummm... if you listed them for sale and someone wants to buy them at the price you posted.... shouldn't you sell them? You are such a Saiga-tease. Ditto... Sounds like you're ducking out on a sale... Not gauging interest like some political survey lol. That being said... I don't think there's an impending ban or stoppage of saigas. I think you've found a niche in the market so sell away. |
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There is def. an impending ban on them. Read the ATF's last study. How far out is it? No one knows, but it's coming. 50/50 chance on a saiga 12 ban. Price is just getting more competitive, if no ban on saigas happen I see them hovering at $6-700 but not less. It also depends on who imports them and how many. |
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SUb $600 isn't going to happen. But...ummm... if you listed them for sale and someone wants to buy them at the price you posted.... shouldn't you sell them? You are such a Saiga-tease. I beg to differ. My brother bought one from the local fun store for $550 (plus tax) and it came with a surefire 10 round stick mag, which they were selling for 40 or 50 bucks if you bought them extra. This was about 2 years ago IIRC. |
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Quoted: Quoted: SUb $600 isn't going to happen. But...ummm... if you listed them for sale and someone wants to buy them at the price you posted.... shouldn't you sell them? You are such a Saiga-tease. I beg to differ. My brother bought one from the local fun store for $550 (plus tax) and it came with a surefire 10 round stick mag, which they were selling for 40 or 50 bucks if you bought them extra. This was about 2 years ago IIRC. Ancient history, relatively speaking. Lots of changes in Saiga-land since then. FWIW, I bought mine about 2-3 years ago, as well. Can you point me to a place where I can buy them for sub $600 at this time? If so, I'll order 2... |
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Going rate for a basic Saiga is $800 + now. Going to be a while till they come back down, if at all. I have two and have no plan of selling them. I don't want to be stuck out if the worse case scenario happens. I was getting confident that they were safe until this recent news came out:
http://www.ar15.com/forums/topic.html?b=1&f=5&t=1162453 Which will be using this info from 2009 as a basis: http://www.mayorsagainstillegalguns.org/downloads/pdf/blueprint_federal_action.pdf (read pg 35-36) Makes it look much worse for the Saiga when you combine it with the ATF study. |
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SUb $600 isn't going to happen. But...ummm... if you listed them for sale and someone wants to buy them at the price you posted.... shouldn't you sell them? You are such a Saiga-tease. I beg to differ. My brother bought one from the local fun store for $550 (plus tax) and it came with a surefire 10 round stick mag, which they were selling for 40 or 50 bucks if you bought them extra. This was about 2 years ago IIRC. Ancient history, relatively speaking. Lots of changes in Saiga-land since then. FWIW, I bought mine about 2-3 years ago, as well. Can you point me to a place where I can buy them for sub $600 at this time? If so, I'll order 2... I just bought one (under 30 days new) at a semi-local pawn shop/gun store for 539.99 plus tax for a SGL12 model and when I was in this store a couple days ago they still had two left. I also know of another gun shop where I get my class 3 stuff that is local here that has three of them two new one used all for under 600, so they can be had for the price you just have to be lucky to find them! |
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Your pawnshop must have put in an order a few months ago and not looked at their re-supply cost. When I ordered mine they were $485. 2 hours later they were $535, and now they're $565+ shipping from K-Var.
You caught some good deals on dealers with their pants down, but it ain't gunna last long. I beg to differ. My brother bought one from the local fun store for $550 (plus tax) and it came with a surefire 10 round stick mag, which they were selling for 40 or 50 bucks if you bought them extra. This was about 2 years ago IIRC.
[old man voice] Ven I vas a keed, hotdogs ver a nickel! I have a 2009 F-250 that I'll sell you for 50,000. Hey, two years ago it was worth 54,000! THAT'S A STEAL! |
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if the new KelTec bullpup is decent, I think Saiga demand is going to fall quite a bit... I disagree. Siaga has the fact that it's semi & mag fed. The KT only has compactness on it's side. Given the projected price of the KT, I would much rather have a Siaga. The biggest thing that would sueade me would be the track record. I have yet to hear about a Siaga malfunctioning. KT... well, you know the answer to that. Pluss the fact that i can get drums / stick mags that can match & surpas the KT. I also prefer a semi over a pump for a range toy (which is the only reason I would buy a Siaga OR KT). I think Siaga market will fall a little, but not allot. 2 totally different animals IMO |
PSA had plenty of them on their shelves when they first opened. I always planned on getting one but kept putting it on the back burner while I bought other things. By the time I was ready to buy one the ATF study came out they sold out literally over night and there were no more in the pipeline. 
About a week later Sergio from PSA called me and told me he found out two Saigas that were part of a shorted shipment were coming in. I asked if he could reserve them for me and a buddy and he did. Knowing the value of Saigas had increased sharply due to their rarity Sergio could have marked them up to current market value but he didn't. He sold them to us for the original price of $599 knowing he could have asked for more and got it. My hat's off to you, Sergio. 
I've already had it to the range and she is one terrific blaster! 
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PSA had plenty of them on their shelves when they first opened. I always planned on getting one but kept putting it on the back burner while I bought other things. By the time I was ready to buy one the ATF study came out they sold out literally over night and there were no more in the pipeline.
About a week later Sergio from PSA called me and told me he found out two Saigas that were part of a shorted shipment were coming in. I asked if he could reserve them for me and a buddy and he did. Knowing the value of Saigas had increased sharply due to their rarity Sergio could have marked them up to current market value but he didn't. He sold them to us for the original price of $599 knowing he could have asked for more and got it. My hat's off to you, Sergio.
I've already had it to the range and she is one terrific blaster!
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v197/panzersergeant/Saiga%20AK/Saiga1211.jpg Nice score! 
I was in my favorite gun shop this week and I decided to ask one of the sales guys if he thought they'd be getting any more. He said they probably wouldn't with the ATF study increasing the demand for them. He also said the distributors that had them were sitting on them hoping the price would go up. I don't normally give much weight to what sales guys say, but I think he's right about that. I'm not convinced that it's a supply problem. There's probably plenty of them that are being held in storage with hopes that a big profit will be made. |
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PSA had plenty of them on their shelves when they first opened. I always planned on getting one but kept putting it on the back burner while I bought other things. By the time I was ready to buy one the ATF study came out they sold out literally over night and there were no more in the pipeline.
About a week later Sergio from PSA called me and told me he found out two Saigas that were part of a shorted shipment were coming in. I asked if he could reserve them for me and a buddy and he did. Knowing the value of Saigas had increased sharply due to their rarity Sergio could have marked them up to current market value but he didn't. He sold them to us for the original price of $599 knowing he could have asked for more and got it. My hat's off to you, Sergio.
I've already had it to the range and she is one terrific blaster!
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v197/panzersergeant/Saiga%20AK/Saiga1211.jpg Orig. price of $599? So he was raping you BEFORE the ATF study, now he's in-line. The day before the study came out i picked mine up for $485 or $489. Next day they went to $530 then $560. Now with the new LRBHO models, they're $600+ |
Atlantic Firearms said that whatever is in the states right now, is all there is going to be for awhile. No more S12 import shipments are being approved until the ATF finishes their "study". Also, supposedly, 1 last import shipment was approved, but no one knows if it's actually going to ship from Russia, for some reason.
OP, I'd forget your "sell now, build for less later" idea. For now at least. You could surely turn a nice profit right now........but you most likely won't be able to rebuild it for less, and that's even if you can get your hands on an S12. |
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PSA had plenty of them on their shelves when they first opened. I always planned on getting one but kept putting it on the back burner while I bought other things. By the time I was ready to buy one the ATF study came out they sold out literally over night and there were no more in the pipeline.
About a week later Sergio from PSA called me and told me he found out two Saigas that were part of a shorted shipment were coming in. I asked if he could reserve them for me and a buddy and he did. Knowing the value of Saigas had increased sharply due to their rarity Sergio could have marked them up to current market value but he didn't. He sold them to us for the original price of $599 knowing he could have asked for more and got it. My hat's off to you, Sergio.
I've already had it to the range and she is one terrific blaster!
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v197/panzersergeant/Saiga%20AK/Saiga1211.jpg Orig. price of $599? So he was raping you BEFORE the ATF study, now he's in-line. The day before the study came out i picked mine up for $485 or $489. Next day they went to $530 then $560. Now with the new LRBHO models, they're $600+ It's only rape if you resist. 
It's a matter of timing, acutally. One of the reasons I didn't pick one up sooner is because I thought they were priced kind of high when they were plentiful. Now that they are rare as hen's teeth (around these parts, anyway) $599 is a great deal. No regrets.
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Quoted: OP, I'd forget your "sell now, build for less later" idea. For now at least. You could surely turn a nice profit right now........but you most likely won't be able to rebuild it for less, and that's even if you can get your hands on an S12. I think this is the route I have decided to go. I'd kick myself if I made a couple hundred bucks, and could not replace them later. |
| I spoke with a guy at a gun shop in Birmingham this weekend. They'd sold their last S-12 the previous week and he said they wouldn't be getting any more anytime soon. He seemed to think the distributors are having to hold their inventory until the ruling in May. Anyone know if this is actually the case? |
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Semi off topic question: if the atf turns the saiga 12 into a destructive device, how does that affect the availability of accessories, like mags? At the gunshow this past weekend, Pro-mag 5-rounders were 50 bucks, 12-rounders were 70.
They will only go up in price just as the gun itself will. As long as Pro-mag is making mags they will always be available. |
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I would seriously doubt that shotguns that already passed customs are not on the DD list would be held. The ATF 'study' is over. Now we wait to see if they're going to make a ruling based on their study. Now, could it be the case that distributors are CHOOSING to create a shortage by holding onto their Saiga inventory until they become illegal to import? Sure. It's called collusion and it's illegal.
However, they're all smart and know how this works. If no one says anything to anyone, they get away with it and can turn their $300 Saigas into $2,000 Saigas just by letting them sit in inventory for a few months. Pretty smart if it works. i.e. If I were a dealer and had a few Saigas left, or a shipment still supposed to come in, I'd consider telling people they had dried up. Store them in the back room and then have a 'Look what we found!' sale once they're banned. ETA: MAGS: Just ordered 4 10rd. mags from AGP Arms directly. Took about a month, but I got them for $38/piece. Not bad. Still need a drum though. |
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+2. Totally different. In competition, there is no real use or demand for the KT (can't even load to capacity in "He Man" or "Heavy Metal" division).
But the Saiga dominates open division & will continue to do so unless they rule it out of existance in the sport. Quoted:
Agree. I have 0 interest in the KT. As stated above, different beasts. |
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I spoke with a guy at a gun shop in Birmingham this weekend. They'd sold their last S-12 the previous week and he said they wouldn't be getting any more anytime soon. He seemed to think the distributors are having to hold their inventory until the ruling in May. Anyone know if this is actually the case? Where did you hear that there will be a ruling in May? Not doubting you, just wondering about the source. TIA, CBR |
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I spoke with a guy at a gun shop in Birmingham this weekend. They'd sold their last S-12 the previous week and he said they wouldn't be getting any more anytime soon. He seemed to think the distributors are having to hold their inventory until the ruling in May. Anyone know if this is actually the case? Where did you hear that there will be a ruling in May? Not doubting you, just wondering about the source. TIA, CBR That's what the guy at the shop said. Who knows if that's correct??? I do know the ATF study sheet says they're taking comments until May 1, 2011. The ruling will come at some point after that date. http://atf.gov/publications/firearms/012611-study-on-importality-of-certain-shotguns.pdf |
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I spoke with a guy at a gun shop in Birmingham this weekend. They'd sold their last S-12 the previous week and he said they wouldn't be getting any more anytime soon. He seemed to think the distributors are having to hold their inventory until the ruling in May. Anyone know if this is actually the case? Not quite accurate because there is only ONE importer right now and he is the importer, distributor and dealer who allows distributors and dealers to purchase from him. |
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