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MAC10's can be made to shoot either .45 or 9mm. You are correct on lage making great kits for the 10's and 11's. The .380 MAC's were MAC11A1's. They go size wise from largest to smallest M10, M11, M11A1.

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Glad you could make it.
Can you run a Lage Max31 on a M10?
 

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No.

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M11/9 it is then. Any brands or certain things to specifically look for or ask about?

 

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AMP 10s will run on a M10,



And try to stay away from Tx Macs.

 

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So basically, if it's marked Stephensville, Tx; stay away?  Even if it's a SWD build? I saw that the AMP 10 will run on them. I like the AMP10 because you can use stick mags. however, asthetically, to me, it's hideous compared to the Lage31.



I think I'm thinking of getting the 11/9 because of the Lage 22 kit they offer.

 

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A lot of the Tx were not welded too well, so they my need to be rewelded it they open up.





Have you ever shot a 10/45, 10/9, or 11/9?





If you do get that Stem Modded gun, I do not know anyone makeing a 22 kit for it.
 

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Why wouldn't a Lage 11/22 kit work on an M11? Because the mag well has been worked on to accept Sten mags?



 

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You may want to make a decision as to whether you really want to shoot the gun in its stock configuration.  Many people that have the M11A1 or M11/9 end up putting a Lage or other aftermarket upper on it, which tends to negate the pros and cons of the stock configuration.  You can get the uppers in either caliber, so even if you get a 380ACP gun, you can shoot 9mm this way.



I really wanted an Alliance Armament Suomi upper, so I ended up getting the smaller SWD M11A1 in 380ACP.  I ended up saving several hundred bucks this way (I got a fairly good deal on an in town transaction), and ended up with a carbine type SMG that was 2" shorter.  A definite plus if you ask me, as it gets front heavy with the drums.  The biggest plus was the nice, inexpensive Finnish military mags and drums I can use, plus I'm shooting 9mm from a 380ACP host.  I did purchase a few Recon Ordnance converted PAM-2 mags for the times I shoot it in the stock configuration, so I have a buzzgun to boot.



The only real disadvantage of the smaller M11A1 is that there is no commercially available 22lr conversion.  That doesn't bother me as I have other platforms for that, but it's a point to consider.



One more note on the AMP-11 vs. Max31 uppers.  The AMP-11 will work with the entire Suomi mag family (Drums, coffins and sticks) but the MAX31 only works with the single feed drums and coffins.  The AMP-11 can also be caliber converted.

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Generally the most versitile "mac" from an accessories point of view is the SWD M11/9... which is analogous to the AR15 or Ruger 10/22 of the machinegun world.  Although it seems that M10 are catching up in the accessories department.



The popularity of the M11/9 accessory market is probably due to the M11/9 being made in more volume that probably all the other MAC variants combined as SWD pumped out tons of guns in 1986 before the ban took effect.



M10s are the full size guns, bigger, heavier and shoot 45ACP or 9MM depending upon the mag well setup.   These were made by the original MAC (Military Armaments Corp), RPB after them,  the new "MAC" in Stephenville Texas, Jersey ARMS, and finally SWD.



Of these the only ones to generally shy away from are the Stephenville MACs as they just stitch welded the receivers vs. a full proper tig bead and which resulted in premature receiver failure.  That said many uncompleted receivers of Stephenville were purchased by SWD and were redone properly, and many original Stephenville guns have been properly fixed over the years so you just need to confirm what you are buying if you decide to get a Stephenville gun.



Both MAC and RPB also made "M11"s which were 380 guns. These original MAC and RPB M11 guns used very nice (walther made I believe) double stack magazines that are hard to find and very expensive.  



SWD produced the M11A1 (380) which is similar to the original M11 (but used zytel mags instead of double stack steel)  then came out with the M11/9 (9MM), which also used zytel mags. (although there are no shortages of argentine PAM-2 mags that will work in these guns). The M11/9 is basically a rear receiver lengthened M11A1.



M11/9s are the most common and versatile in my opinion and are a great little machineguns.  An M11/9 is usually most folks first step into the addiction that is machinegun collecting.  



I can't give much first hand advice about all the new wiz-bang slow fire suomi M11/9 uppers out there as my personal M11/9 was turned into a permanent 22LR host probably close to 10 years ago and hasn't seen a round of 9MM since then, however I have put a couple mags downrange through others Lage based guns.



Although I did just recently notice some company called AMP that has come out or is coming out with a Aguilla 12 gauge upper for the M10 series.  I hadn't given MACs a look in years but a full-auto 12 gauge MAC has peaked my interest in picking up another MAC.





However in regards to your specific questions.



Q: Now, I know there is the Mac 10 and that's .45 OR 9mm, right? If it's labeled .45acp can you shoot 9mm out of it and vice versa?

A:  Yes, as long as it has a 45ACP Magwell on it you can shoot 9MM out of it.  You will obviously need a 9MM upper, Bolt, and Magwell Insert, and 9MM Mags



Q:Also, Mr. lage makes some fantastic products and I'm considering buying a bone stock Mac and then adding an upper after the fact. Can you run the Max31a on the M11 without issue?

A:  The Max31a is for the M11 variant guns.  However the Max31 is for the M11/9 series.   http://max-11.com/max31upper.html



Q: Does that seem like a good deal to you guys?

A: Doesn’t seem terrible but doesn’t seem great either.  Since you mentioned it was $800 in taxes I presume this gun is owned by an individual out of state?  In that case I would honestly not bother paying $400 on a 20+ year old suppressor that needs $200 worth of upgrades.  Just buy a net new CAC9 from Bowers or Viper from Gemtech and be done and have one F4 tax.



Q: Also, anyone know who could rebuild that sionics can to make it modern and user serviceable. I already looked at stalking rhino but his web page is blank.

A:  I believe Gemtech and Thompson machine offer this service.  At least Gemtech definitely used to, I would call them to find out.



Q: What should I look for on these. Are there any particular ones to stay away from?

A: Yes I would stay away from Stephenville guns unless you can inspect in person to make sure the welds are good or it’s a SWD overstamp.  I would also stay away from any gun that has been "TASK” slowfire converted as a hole has been drilled in the back of the receiver or a gun that has been STEN magwell converted. (as STEN mags are a pain in the ass and the receiver has been welded on)



Q:  How would I know if it were a last ditch effort SMG made at 11:59 before the ban took affect?

A: Well all MAC, RPB, , and non-SWD overstamp Stephenville were made well before the ban as they went out of business and/or bankrupt years before.  Any SWD M11/9 or M11A1 Gun the serial number is Prefixed by the year.  For Example 86-0000000 will be a 1986 made gun.  The higher the second part of the serial the closer to the ban cutoff.   The M11A1 guns go 86-380000.  I honestly wouldn’t worry about it or just buy an 85 or earlier prefixed gun.





Q: Oh, one last question. What are the sizes depending on model. For instance largest to smallest.

A; M10s are the largest, M11/9s are sort in the middle (skinnier and not as tall but longer behind the magwell than M10s), and M11 and M11A1s are the smallest.  ( I am not aware of any appreciable size difference between the M11 and M11A1)





Hope this helps.

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Bingo, I think Sam @ Practical Sol makes one though.

 

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Richard makes a .22 sten mag well adapter AFAIK.


ETA. Get an m11/9 while you can. You won't regret it!!!!

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Richard makes a .22 sten mag well adapter AFAIK.





ETA. Get an m11/9 while you can. You won't regret it!!!!

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Help me understand this better. What you're saying is tht if a magwell has been converted, Lage makes an adapter so that it fits a modded mag well and you can use his 22 kit?  Or did you mean that he makes a mag well adaptor so that you can use sten mags?

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Here's what you need to know about MACs -



1. If you want to keep it stock, get a MAC10, they are a good gun and work great.



2. If you want to customize the gun, get a SWD M11/9.  They are a silly, awkward POS but the tiny lower makes an excellent trigger pack.





You can get an UZI grip mounted to a MAC 10 and use UZI mags instead of the original expensive 9mm walther mags.



You can get a sten grip mounted to an M11/9 and use sten mags instead of the worthless 9mm zytel mags.



Both of the above are common modifications, the aftermarket guys make adapters so their 22 kits and so forth will work with the non-original mag wells.



M10/45s use grease gun mags.



Some guys use modified PAM2 mags in place of the zytels.  It works OK.

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Help me understand this better. What you're saying is tht if a magwell has been converted, Lage makes an adapter so that it fits a modded mag well and you can use his 22 kit?  Or did you mean that he makes a mag well adaptor so that you can use sten mags?

Quoted:Mags:

Uzi $6-15
Sten $6-15
GG Mags $17-35
Walther $100-150
Zytels $15-20
Pam2 are what still $25-30?
 

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I have not seen Zytels less than $20, plus you'll want to attach the $5 Lage stainless steel feed lips to them to have any mid term reliability or life.  The feed lips still do not prevent splitting in the rear.



The Recon Ordnance PAM-2s are $30 for the M11/9 and $40 for the M11A1 (380ACP).



IMHO, the choice between these two is clear.  The PAM-2s win hands down for the extra $5.

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I have not seen Zytels less than $20, plus you'll want to attach the $5 Lage stainless steel feed lips to them to have any mid term reliability or life.  The feed lips still do not prevent splitting in the rear.

The Recon Ordnance PAM-2s are $30 for the M11/9 and $40 for the M11A1 (380ACP).

IMHO, the choice between these two is clear.  The PAM-2s win hands down for the extra $5.

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There are two different TX MACs:

1. There was a guy named Leatherwood who made about 100 MAC10s in his garage in Stephensville, TX.  They have a weird safety in the trigger guard that looks like a Garand safety.  They have spot welded frames that break.

2. Leatherwood went out of business and sold a whole pile of uncompleted but registered flats to SWD, who completed them just like any other MAC, properly TIG welded and built with regular MAC parts.


If you don't see a Garand looking safety in the trigger guard, you're good to go, even if the receiver says TX on it.

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There are two different TX MACs:

1. There was a guy named Leatherwood who made about 100 MAC10s in his garage in Stephensville, TX.  They have a weird safety in the trigger guard that looks like a Garand safety.  They have spot welded frames that break.

2. Leatherwood went out of business and sold a whole pile of uncompleted but registered flats to SWD, who completed them just like any other MAC, properly TIG welded and built with regular MAC parts.


If you don't see a Garand looking safety in the trigger guard, you're good to go, even if the receiver says TX on it.

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apparently I missed one on the EE. Dude was practically giving it away.

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Two other MAC "nuances" you need to be aware of:



1) MAC's were designed to be run with a suppressor.

2) MAC's were designed to be run with ball ammo.





Use both and you will be a a whole lot happier with your purchase.  

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apparently I missed one on the EE. Dude was practically giving it away.

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Sorry. It pays to be online 24hrs a day.

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Sorry. It pays to be online 24hrs a day.

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Sorry. It pays to be online 24hrs a day.

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I started to wane a little bit on this endeavor but you guys are keeping me in high spirits.

I get two raises in Jan (yearly 1.75% and I hit 10 years at the same time).  It comes out to about 150 bucks extra a month. New baby boy is due in September. Wife wants to make sure that things are in order before I go off spending 5k (Gun, stamps, Suppressor, LageMax31upper).  I can live with the wait till January.

I think she's a keeper.

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I found a M11/9 with a sten magwell for $3,500 not sure if it is the greatest deal but seems like prices are going crazy, and it comes with 20 mags. If I decide the sten magwell isn't for me is it possible to change it back?  Pretty sure Lage mages adapters for his 22 so I don't think it will be that big of an issue.  Local shops say it will be 5k+ for them to get one in and the auctions for them seem to be 4,200.



Only problem is its out of state.  I know I need to get it transferred to my dealer then to me, but is there any way to make sure the gun is legit before sending off a postal money order?

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I thought it came with 11 mags. The can is older and also an out of state tax (times 2).



It can have the Sten magwell removed. But the receive is heat treated and everytime you cut it and weld on it messes with the frame. You will have to find someone to do the work. But any work they do will be on someone elses work.



It is a fair price for the current state of affairs IMHO