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7/7/2017 9:26:44 PM EDT
I have heard the shotshell loading rule "follow the recipie."

A couple questions:

Can different brand primers be substituted? Lee says they can but Lyman says they cannot.

I plan on loading mostly buckshot. Can I use lead shot data assuming that I use the correct weight. I.e. 1oz of buckshot substituted for 1 oz of say #7 shot.

Thanks
7/7/2017 9:57:03 PM EDT
[#1]
You should follow published loads exactly.

Which is different from metallic reloading.
7/7/2017 10:00:18 PM EDT
[#2]
ok.

I've bought the Lyman manual, I'm just getting frustrated by contradicting information from different sources.
7/7/2017 11:33:57 PM EDT
[#3]
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Quoted:
ok.

I've bought the Lyman manual, I'm just getting frustrated by contradicting information from different sources.
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And use the full size color drawings in the Lyman manual for positive hull ID.
7/8/2017 12:28:46 AM EDT
[#4]
Shotshell loading is a bit fussy.  

Look at the powder manufactures website for load information as well - they will generally have a pretty good selection of data for various components.

I've never loaded buckshot- don't know if an oz. of buckshot is the same as an ounce of birdshot.  Steel and lead recipes are not the same, slug loads are different as well.  

I like the lyman manual for the procedures and explanations - but I tend to use the data from powder manufactures for loading.

Most of the powder manufactures have a tech services contact.  I've had decent luck asking about specific substitutions I wanted to make and getting direct and informative answers.

FWIW - I load strictly skeet/trap loads. I don't load hunting loads or defense loads (I don't shoot enough of either to bother with trying to load them)
7/8/2017 3:46:50 AM EDT
[#5]
Shotshell primers are pretty much the same, size 209.  I've used various 209 primers over the years with the same recipe, no problems, but standardized on Winchester and Wolf primers
7/8/2017 10:27:00 AM EDT
[#6]
Quote History
Quoted:
Shotshell loading is a bit fussy.  

Look at the powder manufactures website for load information as well - they will generally have a pretty good selection of data for various components.

I've never loaded buckshot- don't know if an oz. of buckshot is the same as an ounce of birdshot.  Steel and lead recipes are not the same, slug loads are different as well.  

I like the lyman manual for the procedures and explanations - but I tend to use the data from powder manufactures for loading.

Most of the powder manufactures have a tech services contact.  I've had decent luck asking about specific substitutions I wanted to make and getting direct and informative answers.

FWIW - I load strictly skeet/trap loads. I don't load hunting loads or defense loads (I don't shoot enough of either to bother with trying to load them)
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There are buckshot and slug loads at the back of the Lyman manual.

Buckshot is different as you lay the 00 buckshot into the wad in layers of 3 by hand.
7/8/2017 10:38:06 AM EDT
[#7]
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Quoted:
Shotshell primers are pretty much the same, size 209.  I've used various 209 primers over the years with the same recipe, no problems, but standardized on Winchester and Wolf primers
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If you go to the powder manufacturers website and look at published loads just changing the primer can have a significant effect on pressure.  Size wise they are all similar though the european primers tend to be a bit larger, especially RIO's.   This can result in loose primer pockets if you go back to Rem or Win primers for some reason.  You can also run into problems getting a primer to seat flush when you try to put a euro primer into a once fired Remington hull.

I don't substitute primers without looking at data.  Even then I've emailed tech services on occasion to ask their opinion.

As an example:  from the Hodgdon reloading center.   All loads are for rem 2-3/4" STS/Premier/Gun club hulls.  1 oz lead shot.  1180 fps.  WAA12SL wads. Clays powder

CCI 209  10,100 psi
Fed 209 10,800 psi
FIO 616 9,000 psi
FIO 617 10,200 psi
REM 209 8,100 psi
RIO 209 8,100 psi
WIN 209  8,200 LUP

So maintaining a velocity and changing primers is a high of 10,800 psi / and a low of 8,100 psi.     SAAMI pressure for 2-3/4" or 3"  12 ga is 11,500 psi. max
Of course the powder drop varies too- but thats because different primers react differently in a load.  i.e. - don't substitute especially if you are loading something near max pressure.
7/8/2017 10:47:13 AM EDT
[#8]
Where did you read where Lee says you can substitute primers? It is wrong and that should be pointed out to Lee.
7/8/2017 11:35:59 AM EDT
[#9]
Everything I have read and the practice I follow is do not change any component in a published load. Primers in shotshells will make a difference in pressure.

The only primers that I have found info that you can safely substitute is Noble Sport 209s for Winchesters. Also most Euro primers have a slightly larger diameter than American primers.
7/8/2017 11:41:54 AM EDT
[#10]
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Quoted:
Where did you read where Lee says you can substitute primers? It is wrong and that should be pointed out to Lee.
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It was in the data that came with the Load-All.
7/8/2017 12:00:08 PM EDT
[#11]
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Quoted:
It was in the data that came with the Load-All.
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Quoted:
Quoted:
Where did you read where Lee says you can substitute primers? It is wrong and that should be pointed out to Lee.
It was in the data that came with the Load-All.
Best to forget you ever read any lee data. They dont stand behind it. I called them once to ask about their data. Their answer went something like this, "We don't develop our load data. We get it from other sources and just reprint it." I am not sure how that is possible. Plagiarism?
7/8/2017 1:36:01 PM EDT
[#12]
Shotgun loading is easy.

First read the data and you going to stick by it for every component in that data, including the shell type is being loaded into.

Next, take a look at the working pressure of the load for that data, and see how close it gets the the max Saami working pressure for that caliber.

Shotshell Maximum Average Pressure (MAP) in PSI


10 gauge 11,000
12 gauge 11,500 (except 3-1/2 in.)
12 gauge 3 1/2 in. 14,000
16 gauge 11,500
20 Gauge 12,000
28 gauge 12,500
.410 Bore 2 1/2 in. 12,500
.410 Bore 3 in. 13,500

Now if you are using the compounds for say a 12 gauge that has a max working pressure of 11,500, and the load is only producing 8000 PSI, then you are safe to swap primers to one that is "slightly" hotter or cooler in that primer heat range.  This does not mean that you can swap out Fed 209a (hot as fuck primer) from say win 209 primer, but you can swap out Chedite or Noble primers that are close to the same heat range  as the win 209 instead of using the Win 209 primer.  Hell, if you go directly to the power manufacturers site, they will have different loads for the primer/wad and even powder that you are planning on using.

As for shell speeds, take a look at the data and it will list at least 3 or more of different powder amounts that different speeds.  For the max speed listed with any give load, do not increase the shot weight, or powder weight of that load.


Now the last thing, and actual finding a load that will fit the hull correctly in the first place.  This means with the with the wad not compressed, but just kissing the top of the powder, and the shot in the wad, the top of the shot line should be the bottom crimp line in the shell.

And no, you don't just start working up loads that are not listed for reloading data.  The working pressure of a shotgun barrel is low as hell, and your not going to get primer signs of over pressure before you blow a barrel up.
7/8/2017 1:51:36 PM EDT
[#13]
I would say no to using lead shot data for buckshot loads.  Your wad pressure will be way different with lead shot that compacts nicely compared to all the volume required for the same weight of buckshot.

I wouldn't sweat going to a cooler primer near as much.  It's always best to stick to the recipe.
7/8/2017 9:28:32 PM EDT
[#14]
Quote History
Quoted:



If you go to the powder manufacturers website and look at published loads just changing the primer can have a significant effect on pressure.  Size wise they are all similar though the european primers tend to be a bit larger, especially RIO's.   This can result in loose primer pockets if you go back to Rem or Win primers for some reason.  You can also run into problems getting a primer to seat flush when you try to put a euro primer into a once fired Remington hull.

I don't substitute primers without looking at data.  Even then I've emailed tech services on occasion to ask their opinion.

As an example:  from the Hodgdon reloading center.   All loads are for rem 2-3/4" STS/Premier/Gun club hulls.  1 oz lead shot.  1180 fps.  WAA12SL wads. Clays powder

CCI 209  10,100 psi
Fed 209 10,800 psi
FIO 616 9,000 psi
FIO 617 10,200 psi
REM 209 8,100 psi
RIO 209 8,100 psi
WIN 209  8,200 LUP

So maintaining a velocity and changing primers is a high of 10,800 psi / and a low of 8,100 psi.     SAAMI pressure for 2-3/4" or 3"  12 ga is 11,500 psi. max
Of course the powder drop varies too- but thats because different primers react differently in a load.  i.e. - don't substitute especially if you are loading something near max pressure.
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Valid point that different primers will have different pressures.

 But from Hodgon's data posted above no primer for that recipe will be over pressure. 

That data to me says use any primer on the list and you'll be fine and you'll still get 1180 fps while being uner SAAMI max of 11,500 psi

I missed the different powder charges part.  In this case if switching primers or the same powder charge might give 1180 fps for one primer and 1235 fps for another, if both loads are listed as safe then it's OK to use different primers with the same wad, shot weight, powder charge... you'd just end up with slightly different velocities


7/8/2017 9:42:35 PM EDT
[#15]
You'll be fine if you also use the correct powder drop, those loads all have different powder drops also to get to the 1180.   If you used a max powder drop for a cool primer and stuck in a hot primer though you'd be way over max.

i.e. follow the recipe.
7/14/2017 4:15:36 PM EDT
[#16]
I can imagine the volume vs weight would also determine wad size when switching from smaller lead shot to buckshot.
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