Armory Sponsor
Posted: 3/25/2017 11:13:49 PM EDT
| I am looking at getting into shotgun reloading specifically for 3 gun competitions. I don't have a setup yet for reloading, but I am trying to figure out what I should be shooting to have shells ready when I get setup to reload? Thank you for any input and help. Also, not sure if it matters, but I will be shooting a Stoeger M3K. |
|
What shells do you like to use now?
Most of the major brands sell both kinds of loads, e.g., ones where the hulls are disposable, and ones where the hulls are reloadable. Many of the cheaper loads are that way because they take shortcuts with the hulls and those design changes make the hulls disposable. What brands do you like now? |
|
Can't help you specifically with 3-gun. Remington STS/Premier are the most durable hulls out there right now. The gun clubs are very similar but are steel based hulls instead of brass. They are a little harder to resize depending on what you use for a loader. Long time ago the Winchester AA was king of the hill, but they have gone to a 2 piece hull (AAHS) which have had problems in years past. Most of the Euro hulls (rio's etc.) are re-loadable. Lots of people use them on a load once and toss basis - there are lots of them laying around so it's not hard to pick a few empties up.
Single stage loading you're lucky to load 100 rounds an hour, progressive closer to 500. How much ammo are you thinking you're going to load? Unless you have something special for ammo it's hard to save a lot of money on 12 ga target loads. Lead is hard to find good prices on especially if you have to ship it. Your final cost will be highly dependent on your lead cost. |
|
I load for 4 different shotgun gauges (12, 16, 20, 28) and 1 caliber (.410)- I really don't save much loading 12 and 20 gauge.
I also load these 5 on single stage MEC 600 Jr presses at a rate of about 100-125 per hour. The reason I still load 12 and 20 is that I have 1000's of hulls and wads for both and about 70 lbs of reclaimed shot- even with that, I'm saving maybe 20% over factory loads for 12 and 20 TARGET loads. My savings are with 16, 28 and .410; I can usually best the cheapest price by half or more for these 3. I save LOTS for all 5 when I load special loads for turkeys, waterfowl and slugs- around 35-50%. For shooting 3-gun, if you're using a 12 or 20 gauge, I doubt it would be beneficial to load; unless you want to load mouse-fart rounds that barely cycle your gun- which is an arena a neophyte shotgun loader needs to stay out of (shotgun loading is very load specific with regard to components and straying from established load data puts you in the test pilot seat). |
|
Quoted:
I am looking at getting into shotgun reloading specifically for 3 gun competitions. I don't have a setup yet for reloading, but I am trying to figure out what I should be shooting to have shells ready when I get setup to reload? Thank you for any input and help. Also, not sure if it matters, but I will be shooting a Stoeger M3K.Shor shell 
Metallic, (pistol rifle) RCBS press. 
Mec 600 jr shotgun press. BTW saw 2 of these today at the funshow for $75 used. I strongly suggest you get a copy of ABC's of Reloading, the book written for the beginner to answer all of your questions. ABC's of Reloading Edit to fix spelling. |
|
Another good manual is the Lyman guide to shotshell loading.
You're going to want a reloader that is capable of resizing the bottom 'brass' of the hull in order to feed reliably in an autoloader. Also need a loader that will do a taper crimp on the hull - also to feed reliably in an autoloader. Single stage loaders to look at would be the MEC Sizemaster (a bit better than the MEC jr because it has the collet style resizer instead of a ring style resizer), Ponsness Warren 375C, Would be the most common of the current manufacture loaders. More options when you go progressive: Mec 9000, Ponsness 800+, Spolar gold, Dillon SL900, RCBS Grand, Hornady 366 (It may size as a separate operation, i'm not sure about that though). I load 12, 20, 28, .410 on a pair of Ponsness machines (I have an 800+ and an older 900 dedicated to .410). the 800+ is set up to allow gauge changes as are the Dillion (no .410) & Spolar loaders. - MECS are not. As mentioned above - shotshell loading is by recipe - it is not done by 'working up a load' looking for pressure signs. There aren't any pressure signs until something blows up. You don't get to substitute wads, primers, or hulls. you load exactly to recipe. There are some clone wads out there (most common: claybusters or dusters) that are a direct substitute for some OEM wads. So you need to find a recipe that you want to load, then go find components to fit that recipe. If you can't find a recipe for it - don't load it. It's a bit different way of thinking than metallic re-loading. |
|
Assumption on my end - I haven't shot three gun yet, but the couple of times I have read the rules, they indicated you are not allowed to pick up empties or loaded ammo off the ground.
So working off that assumption, your reloads are going to be one and dones. For that, just about any major hull will do. The real research ( of fifteen minutes ) is which wad will work in each hull. My opinion is to find a trap / skeet / sporting clays range, pay for and shoot a round a trap and pick up every hull you can find. Even go to the other fields you didn't shoot on and if they are not in use, pick up those hulls too. "If" I wanted to shoot Rio's, I could have 600 hulls in an hour at any of my local ranges following this approach. As far as reloader go, by a mec. You can adjust it to meet your hull needs and crimp preference. Once it is set, it easy to maintain. It was kinda mentioned, the big up shot to reloading is you can build a load for your needs over time and not have to settle for the bulk box shells that pound the crap out of you. |
|
First, you need to figure out a round count that you will be loading each session and what type of ammo as well.
As stated, single stage will produce around 100 per hour, while a progressive machine will produce 500 to 750 a hour instead. If you are loading slugs or buck shot, then something like a Mec 600 Jr is a good press since you will need to pull the hulls out of the machine to stack the OO buckshot in them before the hulls are crimped. Hulls, In 12 gauge, either STS or Gun club hulls. If you want to use win HS hulls, they are shorter and will require that the machine be re-adjusted for them if you are also reloading STS hull. In 20, STS or Gun club hulls. In 28 and 410, HS hulls. Note on the HS 28 gauge hulls, the first gen hulls of them were shorter, so if you are buying one fired hulls, ask the question if they are the short or long hulls and favor buying only the longer hulls As for the reason for the above list, these hulls will give you the longest life, and will take a re-crimping very well. As for presses, if you are loading more than just 12 gauge, then figure out how fast the press will gauge convert (if it even will quickly). The mec 9000 is not a bad press, but it not designed to gauge change instead. As for myself, have a Mec Jr for 12 gauge slug and buck shot loads, then 5 PW's for my standard skeet loads. The PW machines will gauge change quickly (less than 4 mins) but by having the machines pre set in the gauge I going to load in, allows me to just bolt the machine up to the bench and get about reloading. Also to point out, in a progressive press, you want to set it up for one load, and crank out just that load for a lot of rounds. If you change the load, then you have to reset the machine each time isntead. Lastly, short off loading say STS/gun clubs, and older win CF hulls in 12 gauge which all load about the same since the have the same'ish volume, if you are using different types of hulls, you will need to change the load for each hull type. With shotgun loads, the height of the shot needs to be to the bottom of the fold line in the hulls to end up with a ideal crimp. |
| I do have the ABC's of reloading and i am aware to a slight extent the equipment that is required to start reloading shotgun shells, but I have not done it before. I am just getting my shotgun broken in but I am wanting to see what shells I should be looking at to be able to load down the road. Thank you all for the suggestions, I think that I will start out with STS's and see if the shotgun likes them when I get to shooting more. What are good places to look for getting shot and what is the going price for it? If I am just setting it up for one type of load what would the best progressive press be that wont break the bank? |
|
For a good progressive find a MEC 8567 Grabber (non- auto indexing) or a MEC 9000GN (auto indexing, N means new and improved primer system). I'm partial to the Ponsness, but they are more $ and shine when you have multiple gauges to do.
Check your local trap/skeet club for shot. Shot is normally sold in 25 lb bags. Connies Components has about as good a price on re-dropped shot as your going to find - but I think there is a flat rate shipping charge of $25 for up to 2 bags of shot. You can sometimes get reclaimed shot for fairly cheap ( :( ) $20 - $25 /bag. Reclaimed shot is shot that has been picked up, cleaned, a bit of graphite added, and sold. It will be mixed sizes, deformed, and there may be rocks or small debris in it depending on how good a job was done cleaning it. Our trap club mines lead every 4 years. The lead is sent to Northwest Shot, remelted and redropped, and shipped back to us. We sell it to club members for $25.00 a bag. I believe this is basically the same type of shot Connies sells. (northwest shot) Its as good as new shot with one exception - there is no control of antimony content. It is what it is. New shot will be either chilled shot - low antimony content, or hard/magnum shot which will have a higher antimony content. I've never noticed it matters on clay targets. There are folks that won't shoot anything but magnum shot / high antimony new shot for .410. I've shot .410 for years with redropped shot and never had a problem breaking targets - but i'm not a AAA shooter either. About the most expensive place to buy shot is Cabelas / Bass Pro Shops / Sportsmans Warehouse etc. Last I looked they were at close to $50 / bag. Shot is the bugaboo in reloading right now. Rotometals is another online place to buy shot - they tend to be very expensive. Gamaliels is generally a really good place to find reloading stuff. I've bought stuff from them for years. Still much better off to try to find a local source for lead. |
|
In the Midwest there is a sports store called scheels. For new magnum shot, I find they are the cheapest.
And they have coupons on a regular basis. If you see one out your way, it's worth a stop. My opinion, if you see a new bag of shot for under $37, buy all you can afford. |
| Ballistic Products is also a great source for data and components. |
|
Watch the classifieds section on trapshooters.com and shotgunworld.com used loaders come up frequently. MEC will overhaul a loader for a price, or, it's a good way to learn how the thing works if you're mechanically inclined. While possible to change gauges on a mec 8567 or a mec 9000 you will spend more on parts than just buying a new machine, they are not made to change over gauges.
You'll undoubtably run across Ponsness 800b machines for what seems like a reasonable price. They are good loaders - but, they have been out of production for about 40 years. Bubba has had lots of time to screw them up. Some parts are not available, and upgrading to something closer to the 800+ sold today is expensive (and it still won't be 100%). They don't do taper crimping w/o an upgrade and they won't load the AAHS hulls well without the taper crimp upgrade. You could probably figure a couple hundred bucks +/- to tune one up depending on how carried away you want to get. Dano523 who posted above is a PW guru. If you find an older PW machine he is a great asset. |
|
Good place to start for skeet and target loads The 12 gauge Shotshell Reloading Tutorial
Most hulls I come across that I'll reload are Remington Gun Clubs Since the tutorial used Wolf 209 primers. They work, they're harder and don't leave as much of a firing pin indent but they go bang |
|
Quoted:
Good place to start for skeet and target loads The 12 gauge Shotshell Reloading Tutorial Most hulls I come across that I'll reload are Remington Gun Clubs Since the tutorial used Wolf 209 primers. They work, they're harder and don't leave as much of a firing pin indent but they go bang 
|
|
Quoted:
Thanks for stopping by, haven't seen you around here for awhile.
|
| So I have been looking at shotgun reloading presses and I was curious if it is worth the price to go with a PW 800 plus for about $900 or to go with a MEC 9000G for about $615? Is there any other specialty type tools that I will need besides the press? Thank you all for the help. |
|
Both presses have a big following. The PW is built like a tank, the MEC is lighter construction. Both load a perfectly good shell. I used to load on a MEC, I now load on a PW and would not go back to the MEC. A lot of depends on how much loading you're going to do and how many different loads you're going to do. The PW can be set up with a hull feeder (12 ga. only) though I have never felt the need for it. Both can be set up with hydraulic or electric drives (have not done that either) PW bushings are a bit more expensive than MEC, but you can use Hornady (my preference), RCBS, or Spolar bushings, there is even an adaptor to use mec bushings if you have a bunch of them already.
One thing I like about the PW is the shot holder holds a full bag of shot. You don't have to worry about trying to dump a half bag through a funnel, or bottle supports, etc. The PW also has shot and powder drains. For about $275 +/- you can get tooling heads for the PW so you can change gauges in just a few minutes. This is a nice feature for skeet shooters that shoot 4 gauges. It's cheaper to buy a PW 800+ with 3 additional gauges than it is to buy 4 MECs. The PW needs a solid bench to mount on. The mec is a bit more transportable - I used to have mine on a piece of plywood so I could load in the living room if the wife wasn't home to yell about it. My PW's are bolted to a bench which is bolted to the wall. I only load brass based hulls on the PW. It has shell holders at each station. The shell holders are the sizing feature. Shoving steel based hulls into them takes more force. The MEC has a collet that squeezes the hull to resize it. I think it's not so hard on you or the press to use the collet. Some folks buy a mec sizer tool that is just the collet sizer by itself and size hulls separately. I just stick with brass based hulls. Both machines can be finiky about adjusting them and both have their quirks. Once you get the PW dialed in though it's rock solid. One thing about the MEC - there are a lot of them out there, it's usually not too hard to find someone that can help you sort out a problem. Eta: Buy once cry once = Spolar Gold Knee of the curve = PW 800 + Bang for the buck = MEC 9000gn Imho of course. |
|
Quoted:
So I have been looking at shotgun reloading presses and I was curious if it is worth the price to go with a PW 800 plus for about $900 or to go with a MEC 9000G for about $615? Is there any other specialty type tools that I will need besides the press? Thank you all for the help. Toyed with the idea of getting a Dillon SL900 but can't justify the price. The biggest amount of time in reloading 12 gauge isn't the actual operation of the press but examining the hull just to be reloaded by hand usually for split crimps before feeding the press unless you know the hulls are once fired |
|
The Dillion machine does gauge swaps, but there is no tooling for it reload 410.
I shoot skeet, which 410 is one of the gauges, so the dillion machine is out for me. The Mec 9000 is not a bad machine, but can not gauge change easily, so you end up having to buy a machine in each gauge instead. Also, the Mec 9000 does not want to hold it tune when you are trying to churn out 20K of rounds each gauge/ each off season, so that would mean 4 machine that I would have to stay in front of parts changing due to wear/ re-tuning along the way isntead. The Hornady 366, lets just say that even the Mec machine will out last it (after having to rebuilt too many of them for friends), so lets leave it at that. The PW will hold it tune for years on end/parts last for decades even with the number of rounds that I load yearly, and since it will gauge change in mins, became my choice of reloader a long time again. I started out on the 800 machines with gauge swap tooling, and when I could find other PW's on the cheap, they were brought into the mix to save a few mins having to gauge swap a single machine instead. Hence when I say picked up the PW's cheap, I only have around $1300 in all 5 of my PW reloaders. My lads, and they reason that you see 2 machine set up in 12 gauge (far ends) since I shoot both American and international skeet, which are two different loads in 12 gauge. 
The spolar machine is really just a improved version of the PW machine, and if one has the money, it a better machine that the PW isntead. And yes, If I could justify buying 5 Spolars to have the same set up I have now with my PW's in each gauge (although the spolar gauge changes just about as fast as the PW), would be all over that like a fat kid on a chocolate bar!!!! Bluntly, a progressive machine will crank out 3 to 5 flats (250 rounds in a flat) an hours, and unless you are shooting this much ammo of the same loads, then you may not need a progressive machine in the first place. Hell, I have a Mec Jr for 12g slug loads, and although is not a break neck speed reloader, I can still produce more slugs on it in a few hours, than I will uses in a week of practice for slug gun match and practice. Same goes from my off loads in 12 gauge like pheasant loads, and they are even produced on the JR by the two and few boxes at at time as well. Hence my PW are set up for the skeet loads that I shoot, so instead of having to dial them in for another load and then dial them back, its just much faster to just tweak the JR for these two and few loads instead. |
|
I bought a MEC Sizemaster when my dad gave me all his old hunting hulls. I loaded about 5 cases of target and hunting loads and the press has sat unused for about 20 years taking up space.
My leftover components have been taking up space all this time too. I probably broke even on the adventure and had some fun learning but I have much factory ammo stocked up and don't shoot as much. |
Armory Sponsor