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Posted: 11/14/2008 2:41:56 PM EDT
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What's the scoop on side saddles?
Brands? Plastic/aluminum? 4/6/8 rounds? |
| The hard plastic ones drop rounds, so you have to load them brass-up, which is slower to load from. The elastic ones hold the rounds OK brass down, but require velcro to install which can be messy and position of the sidesaddle is not as solid... works OK for autos, not so much for pumps. |
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Anyone have experience with the 8 round aluminum ones from Mesa? I would be putting it on a 1100 Tac-4 if that matters. http://www.tacticalshotgunner.com/images/products/shell-carriers/remington/sureshell8.jpg I have the 8-round sureshell carrier for my Benelli M4s90, and aside from the soft screws they used to replace the stock rail screws, its an awesome shell carrier. I replaced the screws they used with stainless steel ones, and have not had any problems since 
If you leave shells in the holder for too long though, the little rubber tensioner starts to lose its grip, although you can replace it IIRC. Its not really meant to hold shells in it for more than 8 hours i think (think for duty use on police cars... 8 hour shift) but I have before, and even with the rubber tension bar quite a bit looser, its still much better than any nylon/elastic or plastic shell carrier. |
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The hard plastic ones drop rounds, so you have to load them brass-up, which is slower to load from. I've been using the "hard plastic" Tac-Star models for over 10 years and have never experienced this. I leave 'em loaded 24/7, brass down. OP, buy what you want, just understand that different peoples experience with ANY accessory may vary from yours. Rob |
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I wore out two TacStars in five years. They got so loose they absolutely would not hold shells base down. The Mesa is not without its own issues, but is a better choice overall, in my opinion.
The neoprene tension tube can be replaced with nylon for much better tension. Furthermore, the screws MUST be loc-tited, and checked for tightness regularly. With the caveats, the Mesa has been working fantastically for me. |
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Anyone have experience with the 8 round aluminum ones from Mesa? I would be putting it on a 1100 Tac-4 if that matters. http://www.tacticalshotgunner.com/images/products/shell-carriers/remington/sureshell8.jpg I have the 8-round sureshell carrier for my Benelli M4s90, and aside from the soft screws they used to replace the stock rail screws, its an awesome shell carrier. I replaced the screws they used with stainless steel ones, and have not had any problems since
If you leave shells in the holder for too long though, the little rubber tensioner starts to lose its grip, although you can replace it IIRC. Its not really meant to hold shells in it for more than 8 hours i think (think for duty use on police cars... 8 hour shift) but I have before, and even with the rubber tension bar quite a bit looser, its still much better than any nylon/elastic or plastic shell carrier. What size screws are they? I was thinking of doing the same thing but was waiting until I took apart the FCG for cleaning. The stock screws do suck but the setup is great otherwise. |
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Anyone have experience with the 8 round aluminum ones from Mesa? <snip>http://www.tacticalshotgunner.com/images/products/shell-carriers/remington/sureshell8.jpg I have the Mesa Tactical 8 round model on my Mossberg 500A Persuader. It was easy to install. The fit and finish is great but it is expensive. Also, with the added weight of the ammo (7+1 in the shotgun and 8 in the side saddle) the shotgun setup is heavy. |
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Anyone have experience with the 8 round aluminum ones from Mesa? <snip>http://www.tacticalshotgunner.com/images/products/shell-carriers/remington/sureshell8.jpg I have the Mesa Tactical 8 round model on my Mossberg 500A Persuader. It was easy to install. The fit and finish is great but it is expensive. Also, with the added weight of the ammo (7+1 in the shotgun and 8 in the side saddle) the shotgun setup is heavy. Does the carrier extend past the end of the receiver in either direction? I couldn't seem to find a picture of one mounted on a gun. |
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Anyone have experience with the 8 round aluminum ones from Mesa? I would be putting it on a 1100 Tac-4 if that matters. http://www.tacticalshotgunner.com/images/products/shell-carriers/remington/sureshell8.jpg I have the 8-round sureshell carrier for my Benelli M4s90, and aside from the soft screws they used to replace the stock rail screws, its an awesome shell carrier. I replaced the screws they used with stainless steel ones, and have not had any problems since
If you leave shells in the holder for too long though, the little rubber tensioner starts to lose its grip, although you can replace it IIRC. Its not really meant to hold shells in it for more than 8 hours i think (think for duty use on police cars... 8 hour shift) but I have before, and even with the rubber tension bar quite a bit looser, its still much better than any nylon/elastic or plastic shell carrier. What size screws are they? I was thinking of doing the same thing but was waiting until I took apart the FCG for cleaning. The stock screws do suck but the setup is great otherwise. For the Benelli M4 Super 90 reciever picatinny rail screws (the ones that the Mesa shell carrier replaces)? They are M4 x 0.7mm Metric, 10mm length flathead. I would get some good stainless steel ones, or special "hardened steel" ones called 'unbreakable' screws, althoug stainless is better since it wont rust as easy. They might be a little more difficult to find since they are metric, but any specialy nut & bolt house should have them 
If you're gonna replace em anyways, then i'd say do it sooner than later. You dont even need to take the gun apart to replace them, and i payed i think 15 cents for each screw. In the 'original' thread about the M4/Mesa problems, the OP had his shell carrier fly off the shotgun, taking the reciever threads with it! 
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Anyone have experience with the 8 round aluminum ones from Mesa? <snip>http://www.tacticalshotgunner.com/images/products/shell-carriers/remington/sureshell8.jpg I have the Mesa Tactical 8 round model on my Mossberg 500A Persuader. It was easy to install. The fit and finish is great but it is expensive. Also, with the added weight of the ammo (7+1 in the shotgun and 8 in the side saddle) the shotgun setup is heavy. Does the carrier extend past the end of the receiver in either direction? I couldn't seem to find a picture of one mounted on a gun. No, it does not extend past either end of the receiver. |
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The hard plastic ones drop rounds, so you have to load them brass-up, which is slower to load from. I've been using the "hard plastic" Tac-Star models for over 10 years and have never experienced this. I leave 'em loaded 24/7, brass down. OP, buy what you want, just understand that different peoples experience with ANY accessory may vary from yours. Rob +1 |
| The Mesa ones are the best made. The plastic ones CAN drop shells. They MAY not. This is based on what I have been told by LEOs and their issued 870s with plastic sidesaddles. In a squad car in MN, the temperature can vary by 100 degrees even in the winter and this is a big factor in how well they hold shells, too. |
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The TacStar works, but useful life can vary. I have heard tales of them lasting for years. I wore two of them out within the last five years, and broke another.
The Mesa is not without its issues. Shell tension sucks with the factory Santoprene insert. 15cents worth of nylon tubing will fix this. The screws must be tight, and they must be Loc-Tited. They can and will shear if they get loose. I still feel that the Mesa is the better unit, once you recognize and deal with its shortcomings. I have considered drilling and tapping the Mesa shellholder for the screws used in the TacStar unit. This, I feel, would yield the perfect shellholder.... |
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Read this link on Mesa problems http://www.10-8forums.com/ubbthreads/showflat.php?Cat=0&Number=72263&page=0&fpart=all&vc=1&nt=2 I'll copy & past this from my other post. The tearing/damaging of screws is a known issue. I have already stated the fix to this problem. Mesa Tactical has known to use soft screws on the Benelli M4/M2 side saddles, and replacing them with good quality Stainless Steel screws will fix this forever. I payed 15 cents for each screw, for a grand total of 75 cents for 5 screws 
The 870 trigger group pins are an issue that HAS been addressed by Mesa. Give em a call or email and they should make it right for you. The rubber retainer can be damaged if you put in shells that are sandy/dirty, but i have personally done-so and have not had any damage occour. You can also replace the rubber retainer with a nylon tube, and it will fix the problem. Its an easy solution, and although it SHOULD have been done-so in the first place, its easy enough to do, and circumvent these problems
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I wore out two TacStars in five years. They got so loose they absolutely would not hold shells base down. You were doing it wrong. They go brass up. But if you insist on running them brass down just buy from brownells and exchange it whenever they "wear out." |
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I wore out two TacStars in five years. They got so loose they absolutely would not hold shells base down. You were doing it wrong. They go brass up. But if you insist on running them brass down just buy from brownells and exchange it whenever they "wear out." How is brass down wrong? 
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I wore out two TacStars in five years. They got so loose they absolutely would not hold shells base down. You were doing it wrong. They go brass up. But if you insist on running them brass down just buy from brownells and exchange it whenever they "wear out." Are you kidding me? Brass down is the proper way to carry ammo in a sidesaddle. The shortest path from Point A (sidesaddle) to Point B (loading port) is always the fastest. Period. The only viable reason for carrying shells brass up is for ammo differentiation in the case you carry multiple types of ammo. |
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I've used side saddles without drama in the past, but once I tried the Molle 12-round shotshell pouch, I never looked back.
Shotshell Pouch |
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I wore out two TacStars in five years. They got so loose they absolutely would not hold shells base down. You were doing it wrong. They go brass up. But if you insist on running them brass down just buy from brownells and exchange it whenever they "wear out." Are you kidding me? Brass down is the proper way to carry ammo in a sidesaddle. The shortest path from Point A (sidesaddle) to Point B (loading port) is always the fastest. Period. The only viable reason for carrying shells brass up is for ammo differentiation in the case you carry multiple types of ammo. I realize we all should use what works for us, but I've quit carrying them brass down when I discovered that while moving through a low income housing project I was dropping live rounds. (this was while on duty) My side saddle was a Scattergun Technologies, so it's not like it was a bottom feeder side saddle. A day on the range training I had no problems with the brass up. A little time and training is easier than not having ammo! I've since replaced the loose sidesaddle, but discovered that after time they loosen up. With my luck and Murphy's Law the side saddle will miraculously go loose when I really need it and will drop all the ammo down some storm grate. YMMV |
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I wore out two TacStars in five years. They got so loose they absolutely would not hold shells base down. You were doing it wrong. They go brass up. But if you insist on running them brass down just buy from brownells and exchange it whenever they "wear out." Are you kidding me? Brass down is the proper way to carry ammo in a sidesaddle. The shortest path from Point A (sidesaddle) to Point B (loading port) is always the fastest. Period. The only viable reason for carrying shells brass up is for ammo differentiation in the case you carry multiple types of ammo. I realize we all should use what works for us, but I've quit carrying them brass down when I discovered that while moving through a low income housing project I was dropping live rounds. (this was while on duty) My side saddle was a Scattergun Technologies, so it's not like it was a bottom feeder side saddle. A day on the range training I had no problems with the brass up. A little time and training is easier than not having ammo! I've since replaced the loose sidesaddle, but discovered that after time they loosen up. With my luck and Murphy's Law the side saddle will miraculously go loose when I really need it and will drop all the ammo down some storm grate. YMMV FWIW,Scattergun Technologies/Wilson Combat side saddles are made by TacStar. |
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I wore out two TacStars in five years. They got so loose they absolutely would not hold shells base down. You were doing it wrong. They go brass up. But if you insist on running them brass down just buy from brownells and exchange it whenever they "wear out." Are you kidding me? Brass down is the proper way to carry ammo in a sidesaddle. The shortest path from Point A (sidesaddle) to Point B (loading port) is always the fastest. Period. The only viable reason for carrying shells brass up is for ammo differentiation in the case you carry multiple types of ammo. What shotgun trainers have trained you to carry your shells brass down in the side Saddle? Jeff Gonzalez and L. Awerbuck both teach brass up. |
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I wore out two TacStars in five years. They got so loose they absolutely would not hold shells base down. You were doing it wrong. They go brass up. But if you insist on running them brass down just buy from brownells and exchange it whenever they "wear out." How is brass down wrong? Your spare ammo can walk out under recoil during a gunfight or foot pursuit. The shells can be stolen out of the side saddle while the shotgun is in the vehicle mount. Brass up they cannot be removed while in the patrol car vehicle mount. |
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I wore out two TacStars in five years. They got so loose they absolutely would not hold shells base down. You were doing it wrong. They go brass up. But if you insist on running them brass down just buy from brownells and exchange it whenever they "wear out." How is brass down wrong? Your spare ammo can walk out under recoil during a gunfight or foot pursuit. The shells can be stolen out of the side saddle while the shotgun is in the vehicle mount. Brass up they cannot be removed while in the patrol car vehicle mount. I don't do foot pursuits.I'll just shoot the bastard in the back as he runs away. 
How often do shotgun shells get stolen out of police cars? Serially,I don't think there is a right or wrong way.Whatever works for the individual is the "correct" way. |
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I have lost shells in the cheap TacStar/Wilson/Scattegun saddles. They wear out and get loose. I have never had any shells stolen....thats a new one on me.
As for brass up or down, my training, while not as high speed or low drag as Awerbuck and Suarez, comes from the Oklahoma Council on Law Enforcement and Training and their instructors. Brass down is their opinion, and mine as well. After training both ways, brass down is a faster, better way. |
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How often do shotgun shells get stolen out of police cars? Never if you put them in the side saddle brass up. I would seriously have to re-evaluate where I work if I was getting my shotgun shells stolen. I have never, in 5 years, had anything like that happen. I had somebody steal my granola bar one time in briefing. |
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