Armory Sponsor
Posted: 10/23/2005 3:39:10 PM EDT
  The second picture is the greek. Seems to be good stuff. I have to tell you all though. This may be controversial but I shot gold medal, american eagle, the greek and lake city. If you ask me, the greek is as hot or hotter than the gold medal. The american eagle was the hottest, with the greek second. I'm just going by what I feel and no hard data though. But lake city is way milder than any of them. I read on another board that someone chrono'd it out of his garand and he said it was in the neighborhood of 2550 fps. |
|
Are you single loading, or cycling out of the clip? If you going to show us groups, run a clip for the full 8 rounds for the groups. It gives us a better idea if you are getting first round or last round flyers, and how the rifle is consentent in cycling. The concept to single loading is you long load the rounds to just kiss the lands. Unless the action is dead tight in the stock, single loading can lead to the flyers that you are seeing*. With a loose receiver to stock (side play), the action full stroking in the next round will tend to get the receiver back into the same position each time, instead of just knocked it over somewhere to the left of the stock cavity (changing midle band tension on the barrel and causing the flyers). Also, if you have de-tensioned the wood, next step would be to tune the gas system with a Mc Cann adjustable gas plug to smooth out the stroke. As for glass bedding, if it's a JG match rifle that out, but the rules don't say that you can't leather strip shim the receiver into the action to remove any side to side play (as long as they drop out the stock when the action is pulled). *could also be that high flyer that you are seeing if this is the first round out of the clip. |
|
In response to your gold medal not being hot, it's not supposed to be. USGI type loads are designed to hit a certain speeds; the Fed Gold on the other hand is designed to be a desired burn rate that does not push the envelope on barrel pressure (read the round is designed to be consistent in FPS from shot to shot with very low deviations of speed from round to round. The more consistent the round, the better it is of leaving the barrel at the same harmonics muzzle whip. The problem that you are seeing with your rifle is the barrel tension is changing from shot to shot; the three rounds looked nice, but this explains the two other shots off the same point using the gold. Bottom line is with a stock USGI barrel (not an VAR), you should right about 1-1/2” if the rifle is correctly tuned. The long jump to the lands (throat), and the very loose barrel chamber sidewall dimensions make getting anything better than this, unless you hand load, a very tall order. To add, too bad you don’t live in Denver. I would take me about an hour to work over your rifle and get it shooting great. Plus, We could spend a little time at the range and figure out the load that would make that rifle really sing. Post over in your HT forum and see if there any Garand shooting that could give your rifle a once over to get it to sing correctly. |
|
Dano, I single loaded the gold medal. The greek I think I did both. I single loaded the second group but the first group I loaded 5 in an en bloc clip. I like staying with the 5 shot group. It's gotta shoot good single loaded because that's how 30 of the shots are in the garand b match we shoot. What is the HT forum? Thanks for the advice. |
|
Home town, And with decent ammo/bullets not covered in bullet sealer (causes the barrel to foul out too quickly). Hell you were dam near there with the FG until the receiver shifted in the stock and caused the fliers (different middle band tension). Also, if your not long reloading ammo that will not fit into the clip cavity, no one says that you have to sled the rounds into the rifle singly during Prone. If the rifle shoots better out of the clip (bolt tension and receiver to stock having better return seating), shoot it that way. Worst case is the first round is a flyer (action locking back on the last clip from before) and the other 7 rounds in the heart of the target (full string if you do a clip refresh by dumping the last few rounds in the clip before it goes empty and recharging before the bolt strikes back and locks back without the forward stroke that is dancing your receiver in the stock back to it’s normal cycling position). |
It makes sense. When I shot my first match I was surprised how well I did in the rapids. That may have something to do with what you're saying. But I still don't think it's legal to load a full clip in slow fire. I'm almost positive. Maybe I'm wrong though. But you might be on to something there. I should always test them with the rounds loaded instead of single loading eh? |
|
Yup, just check for JG matches, you're screwed since you can only load one round in the weapon at a time. It's time to get a new stock fitted to your action (read semi inletted fitted to the action without the use of any bedding) since you can't even shim in the JG matches (6.2.4 rule 8) www.odcmp.com/Competitions/Rulebook.pdf Added: give me some time to think up of a way to tighten your stock to receiver fit with only bending the rules. Right now I'm thinking a few dishwasher rides to strip the old oil finish out and to swell the stock, force air dry it to keep the inside/top and bottom of the stock expanded, and then just have to come up with a oil finish that you can rub in that gets "lets just say gets way beyond hard that will not collapse when you tighten up the trigger guard like linseed or Tung oil will, but still looks like boiled linseed oil when it's all said and done. The quick way (not even close to legal) would be to just vacuumize the stock (swell the pores even more), pressure impregnate it with epoxy, then do a quick acetone rub down to take of the surface layer of epoxy off the stock to allow the outer surface to be stained and oiled. Problem is the stock is going to weight about twice as much as normal, and the guy doing a trigger pull test is going to notice the weight. The one thing that does strike me odd is the fact that you cannot shim (at least allow card board or match book covers) in JG has been on the books for a while. This just turns the whole JG matches into a custom build specialty class (with a short stock life). Instead of using what you brought for the matches like a bone stock CMP service rig, it's turned into a high price game (read custom fitted stocks, Krieger barrels, reamed gas cylinders/ turned op rods to tailor the pulse cycle to specific ammo, and a shit load of USGI parts to start swapping out/fit until it's just right. Granted the class was designed for introduction to shooting, it's gone way past that with the top shooters running $2000 or more custom fitted rigs (definitely not what the CMP had in mind when they started the class). |
Yeah, I'm thinking a stock from the cmp might be the way to go. I already ran my stock through the dishwasher once. It took most of the grease out. It's about as good as it's going to get and still be legal. I think for christmas, it's the stock set.!!!!! |
|
Before you order a CMP/boyds stock, you may want to do a little searching. Seems one of the guys over at m-14forum.com was more than a little pissed about the conversion to USGI type dimensions from the basic boyds stock, and set his back. www.m-14forum.com/showthread.php?t=13075 My thoughts would be to start with unfinished boyds set, and sand it down yourself to save the extra $40 CMP is charging for the sanding reducing job. You have to fit the Rear hand guard (back and bottom edges); the inside of the barrel/opt channel needs to be checked for contact and, as for the receiver cavity, leave it alone (read if you need to beat the receiver in, even better). Also, chances are the pistol grip area is only going to be the area that you may want to reduce for feel. As for the sides and forearm from the trigger forward, leave it as thick as you can. This will insure less warping/bending from the pressure on the middle band (read the only thing you grab up there anyways is being gloved up, and you really are not grabbing anything, just using it for a rest point on the palm of your hand*). Plus with JG it’s 200 yard city, so you could take down the comb only enough for a great check weld, instead of being finished too low and having to hover over the comb. Got to ask you about a Photo you posted of your self prone. What I thought I saw was your sling not being used (was handing out to the right). Please tell me that you where sling up beyond tight, and the strap was the just the back portion of it unhooked from the butt stoke hook. Also, I ran a crossed you’re post on flinching over at battle rifles. Could be mental, or could be that your trigger has too much creep after take up or set too high. JG Rules say that the trigger has to break at 4.5 or greater, but you can still work over the parts. If you haven't done a trigger job on a M-14 or Garand, now is not the time to start. Although simple (polishing the compounds, removing metal from the back trigger hooks to set the secondary break point), you can screw up parts and would end up costing you more than the standard $35 that most smiths charge. On this to sum it up, first is to settle in, find the secondary trigger point, then when the front sight settles in on que, a little more gently pressure on the trigger should send the round down range into the X. If you have to fight the trigger after you hit the secondary point, this fighting alone could be the problem Note: This is the reason that I like to set up triggers with 2.5 to 3 lbs primary/take up, and then the second stage to the 4.5 needed crisp break limit. Starting with a 1.5 lbs take up leaves way too much pull weight left to stay on the target when you have to overcome the additional 3.5 lbs without changing you pistol grip tension. |
Dano523, thank you for the replies. Everytime I read your posts it makes me want to buy a regular boyds. If I do, I just hope I can take the thickness. My dad has a loaded M1a and I can kind of get a feel. It's a little fat for me. But it makes sense for it to be stiffer up front. And my present stock, the comb IS a little low for a really good cheek weld. The trade off is, it's quick to get a good sight picture that way. But I know in target shooting, speed isn't really the deal. In my picture. I was shooting with a bag on the front and the back to check for accuracy. I was not using the sling at all. I practice with it, but when I'm shooting strictly for groups. I bag it prone. As far as my trigger goes. It's light but it's not that light, but I have no clue who could work on it. |
Armory Sponsor