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Posted: 3/14/2005 9:50:53 AM EDT
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does your gun "run"? most do. a very few don't. sounds like to me they got two lemons in the same basket. extractor problems seem to be the most common but there is no excuse for them on a 1500.00 rifle. the double, i don't know. may be a lot of things. i would check the gun out before condemning it. could be as simple as sloppy trigger control. why would folks take a rifle to a shooting class without firing about 500 rounds thru it  |
FWIW, I went through the www.tftt.com Tactical Rifle course last June. I used a rack grade standard model M1A serial number 0521XX. It ran like a champion thoroughbred.  If you're looking for first rate firearms instruction, I highly recommend Max Joseph and his staff at TFTT.
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I would like to know what is meant by not using the correct trigger control. I shoot high power and have not experienced a double or saw one on the line. If I ever, I too would suspect the rifle or ammo. edited to state my original thoughts of the hammer following the bolt into battery, causing a slam fire was not possible if all built in safteys work as designed. |
Slamfire... |
If you hold the gun to loose on the shoulder, this causes the gun to push forward after the initial recoil, which presses the trigger up against your figure causing another round to be shot in a split second. some people master this technique, and call it bump firing. Unloading a full magazine as fast as full auto. The ones that have a slamfire don't understand what happens, because of the speed at which it happens. |
You can't use the long slow benchrest type trigger pull on a M1a or Garand. The recoil will cause a bump fire. All good highpower shooters know to pull the trigger all the way to the rear and hold it there untill recoil is over. This prevents bump firing. Also if your reciever in in spec the M1a can't fire from the hammer folowing the bolt down. There is a built in safety feature in the reciever to prevent this. |
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Slamfires are a ammo problem with improper sizing/ primer seating issues, or worn fire control parts/ springs. Bump firing a new term to me, to hold a rifle with no respect for recoil and to not follow through with the shot at the same time. I would have to call this a case of the DUMBASS and a pretty big one. I can not stop the trigger at the point just where the hammer falls, while taking aim take up your first stage and apply steady increasing pressure until the shot breaks. and when trigger pull goes from 4.5lbs+ to 0 you will not be able to stop with out any overtravel. Thank for the input about the saftey feature built in. |
| Some people believe there is a quality problem with newer SA M1A rifles, though everyone credits SA with good customer service and repair. Extraction is one of the areas most mentioned in the threads. A common suggestion is to replace the extractor on new rifles with a USGI extractor. |
The correct way to fire a service rifle during rapid fire is to pull the trigger all the way to the rear and hold it there untill recoil is over. Only then do you release the trigger only far enough for the disconector to do it's job and take the next shot. If you use the long slow surprise benchrest type trigger pull on a Garand or M1a it WILL double or even triple. Benchrest shooting only gives you bad habits to break when you try to learn real shooting. |
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I strongly recommend replacing the stock SA extractor with a genuine M14 (or M1) extractor. The factory extractor is a common problem part. The mass and recoil of the M14 is easy to "double" if you're not holding the rifle tight against the shoulder. Shooter problem, not the rifle normally. A bad or dicked with trigger group, though, is always possible. Regardless these problems should have been evident long before this course. I can't imagine "experienced" shooters having these problems. They may have some good stories, but their actions don't show much experience. Bringing a 11-pound (loaded) "carbine" to an "advanced tactical rifle course" (whatever that might be) shows little experience unless these guys are weigh lifters! Even M4 Carbines get heavy for we mere mortals. "Loaded" in Springfield-speak means "we ran out of USGI parts" but your rifle will be fine. Get a USGI extractor in there ASAP. Do a web search for Bill Ricca (or William Ricca). He shoud have some and you can be sure they're genuine. If you locate a M14 trigger group jump on it. -- Chuck |
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cornbread2 I do shoot highpower for real, as well as 1000 yds as well. I would even like to get into palma and I will continue to use the suprise trigger break instead of the jerk and snatch. I started with the M1 garand, evolved into the M1A, and now the AR-15 and never had a slamfire, jerkfire or bumpfire. a double or triple. go figure... I guess there must be something wrong with MY rifles. |
I'd like to know the answer to this as well. M14's and Garands are notorious for slam firing as well as the SKS to some degree, has zero to do with "trigger control." I like how just about everyday there is a post here about these rifles having problems yet, there are still guys that claim "most of them are OK." Obviously not. My SA 1911 just took a masssive dump after about 500 rounds. I am way, way beyond done with Springfield Armory. I will never buy a SA product again. |
Chuck, you are one of the guys I really respect on this board however, I will never ever ever understand the problems with humping 11 pounds. I have been in construction for 15 years and we hump much heavier items in harsher and much more demanding environments that these courses could ever render every day. I guess it's me, but I wish some days all I had to carry was an 11 pound carbine. 
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Patriot -- Good for you if you can get thru a weekend training course with an 11 pound carbine! I've had guys offer me obscene amounts of money for a spare M4 upper receiver after the first morning of a 3 day "carbine" course when they were using HBAR AR15s. -- Chuck |
Umm, yeah. I guess I got that impression when I had to send my newly purchased M1A back to the factory not once, not twice, but [bold]three[/bold] times over a three month period for trivial stuff like failing to feed, failing to extract, and so on. They did fix it, but it took a bunch of time and effort on my part to make it happen. |
My dad got a new loaded. We shot it today. No problems yet. Only 60 rounds though. But it was accurate and functioned perfectly. Hopefully it will stay that way!  My Springfield 1911 is another story though. I'm not sure what I think of springfield products. But obviously, many have good experiences. And obviously some don't.
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I will assure you I would have no problems getting through a weekend training course with an 11 pound carbine. I should rephrase my slamfire statement, I have not had a Garand slamfire on me since I was probably 12. It does seem to be an issue with some shooters though. Springfield Armory back in the day used to send out literature on M1 and M14 slamfires with new M1A rifles. I am not sure if they still do or not. |
Agreed. I do however have a SA standard M1A all TRW minus the SAK barrel. Runs awesome but took multiple trips to SA and Tank's to get it to work and probably $100 in shipping. I am waiting to find a mint Aussie L2A2 and I will trade it off faster than a tornado through a trailer park
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| There was a article supplied with my SOCOM that stated that the "slamfire" has to do with ammo that is non-military spec. It has to do with the primer being more sensitive. If I remember correctly, the SOCOM has a floating firing pin that makes contact with the primer when the bolt locks in a new shell. If you use non-military spec ammo, they tend to have more sensitive primers and thus the you have a "slamfire" when the floating firing pin comes into contact with the primer. |
It's not just the SOCOM that has the free floating FP, the entire M1 family: M1, M14, M1A, M1 Carbine, Mini-14/30 all have the floating firing pin. You have a potential for a slam fire with all of these guns if you have very soft/ high seated primers. |
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You fiddle with the barrel length and gas system of any gas-operated rifle, it'll probably cause problems. Same reason why a 20inch AR is more reliable than the 14.5 inch M4. M14s are supposed to have 22inch barrels. Chop off 6 inches, it's louder, shorter, and cooler, but you have to adjust the gas system. Don't adjust it perfect, gun won't run perfect. |
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